DPReview: Canon EOS R vs Nikon Z 6 vs Sony a7 III, which is best?
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
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I agree with the former, the latter is just an opinion - and I don't agree with it. I think that is the point some of us are trying to make.
I don't know the answer, but my guess is that far more photographers will be find the fully articulating screen more important than IBIS - and certainly will have more impact in their shooting experience. My guess is that the majority of R owners will have lenses with IS. Plus, the ability to take photos with very high ISOs also diminishes the need for IBIS. When I rented the R, I took shots indoors and did not need IBIS at all (nor on outdoor shots, including sunsets).
Not having two card slots may impact the pros, but the vast majority of R users are not - plus the are probably coming from either the ^D level or going FF from Rebels. In other words, they will be used to one card slot and it won't affect their shooting experience. The dust curtain, on the other hand, will improve the shooting experience of every photographer who has ever had dust on the sensor.
Lots of folks on the forums complain about the crop in video. But again, among all camera users, how many shoot wide angle video? My guess is very few. How many, on the other hand, shoot their kids at soccer games, or other sports, or kid's plays, dance recitals, etc. All situations where you want more reach and wide angle is totally unwanted. So, my guess this is a minor item to most everyone shooting video, but a major complaint from reviewers.
Color has little impact on IQ? Ergonomics doesn't affect shooting experience? I think, quite frankly, that you have it backwards..
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To almost all users, things like shutter curtain down when lens off or fully articulated LCD are absolutely fine and "really right". 1 card slot is an omission, but also only of secondary importance.
Most users would happily trade these "auxilliary features" for some "primary priorities":
* sensor with as much DR as competing Sony and Nikon models
* AF working "no strings attached" in any mode - e.g. full 9 fps also in "Servo-AF with focus priority"
* Eye-Tracking AF working no strings attached in any mode, including Servo-AF
* sufficient CPU power for fully functional features of the camera , in any mode of operation
* sales price not higher than better specced cameras by competitors
[ i don't list 4k video here, because there is no need for video recording in a stills camera, but I am sure, some folks would proper 4k video over a closed shutter curtain]
Canon was not willing or not able to deliver on these. That's what the criticism of EOS R is all about. And it does hint at a rushed, half-baked product launch, when some of the features are simply software items that may eventually be delivered via "FW update".
Most users would happily trade these "auxilliary features" for some "primary priorities":
* sensor with as much DR as competing Sony and Nikon models
* AF working "no strings attached" in any mode - e.g. full 9 fps also in "Servo-AF with focus priority"
* Eye-Tracking AF working no strings attached in any mode, including Servo-AF
* sufficient CPU power for fully functional features of the camera , in any mode of operation
* sales price not higher than better specced cameras by competitors
[ i don't list 4k video here, because there is no need for video recording in a stills camera, but I am sure, some folks would proper 4k video over a closed shutter curtain]
Canon was not willing or not able to deliver on these. That's what the criticism of EOS R is all about. And it does hint at a rushed, half-baked product launch, when some of the features are simply software items that may eventually be delivered via "FW update".
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Aussie shooter
https://brettguyphotography.picfair.com/
I wouldn't trade canons winning features for sonys winning features. No way in hell. One stop of DR will not help get photos as much as a camera that is comfortable to hold for hours at a time. Eye af would not help me more than canons robustness. Uncompromised 4k video won't help me more than an insanely huge colection of
Native and incredible quality lenses. I think you have a very misguided idea of what people consider more important. No one will complain when canon improves upon some things but for many people sony especially but even Nikon are just not on a par with canon despite what the spec warriors think.
Native and incredible quality lenses. I think you have a very misguided idea of what people consider more important. No one will complain when canon improves upon some things but for many people sony especially but even Nikon are just not on a par with canon despite what the spec warriors think.
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For the umpteenth time, you don't speak for most users. You speak for one user. Canon cares about delivering products with features desired by most users. They don't give a crap what 4fun/mirage//fullstop/AvTvM wants.
In the only market for which we have data (the domestic market for Canon, Nikon and Sony), the EOS R is the best-selling FF MILC. So, either people are choosing to buy a camera that doesn't have the features they want over competitor models that offer those features...or you really don't have a clue what most buyers actually want.
Incidentally, your very first 'primary priority' makes your disconnection from reality manifestly clear. Canon hasn't routinely had 'sensors with as much DR as competing Sony and Nikon models' since about 2009, and they remain the ILC market leader with even greater dominance now than then.
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Please spare us your comments about "primary priorities" which may be valid for you and some self-declared internet experts, but certainly not for me.
If you were right, Canon would have gone bankrupt several years ago, but unfortunately, your statistics about customer's wishes and needs are just fakes.I'd suggest that you buy a full - baked Sony wondercamera and be happy.
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This is a practical way to look at it. Canon too are not giving me all I want but I can't complain about what I have already. The 5DIV is a great all round camera (if you can't get good photos with it you should take up another hobby). The 5DSR I find so-so in general but it shines at landscape on a tripod and in the studio. The 7DII I couldn't claim to be a great camera but I find its autofocus pretty good and 10 FPS is a great thing to have.
If Canon gave me all I want - I couldn't afford it and if I could I wouldn't need to buy again.
I think Canon go all out on the lens and that keeps the bulk of us happy to stay with the system. Some of us grumble but I still think its the best all round system. Yes some features on Sony or some options on Nikon feel attractive at times but not enough to discard the system.
I am still getting great photographs from my Canons.
I'm not ready for the EOS-R yet or its not ready for me. I'll be more tempted when they bring out a more professional version with two slots and fast FPS.
I guess that will be in the next year or two.
The gear I have will do a great job in the mean time.
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One stop DR difference is inconsequential. Tell me when that extra stop would avoid the need to bracket.
The next three (AF, eye AF and processors) are likely due to Canon's not having available a sensor with the required data throughput. That is nothing to do with camera design choice but is a constraint placed on their design by their research capability. Now you could argue that Canon should buy in sensors/processors that do give them those options in camera design but Canon has repeatedly decided not to - one thing you can be assured is that if Canon considered those functions to be absolutely essential to its success they would buy in the sensors and processors.
It is becoming clear that Sony has started to restrict availability of certain sensor/processor designs to non-Sony entities so even if Canon did buy them in, would Canon be able to catch up in the way you imagine? But Canon see big problems in becoming beholden to a competitor on supply of crucial components.
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"Good" is not the point - I want to take better photos and under a wider range of conditions than I can with my 5DIV, and I am not going to take up another hobby.
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Supposedly, the sensor division of Sony is meant to be independent and to maximise its divisional profits. Though, I think they don't sell their top stacked 1" sensor to anyone but Sony.
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yes. Core of the problem at "innovative Canon": R&D resources and money squandered for all sorts of exotic to weirdo patents (e.g. the latest "soft focus" stuff
] but not enough on essential sensor capabilities. Canon's greatest asset are their infinitely loyal, infinitely patient, infinitely defensive fanboy customers.
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yes. Core of the problem at "innovative Canon": R&D resources and money squandered for all sorts of exotic to weirdo patents (e.g. the latest "soft focus" stuff
Canon's greatest asset are their infinitely loyal, infinitely patient, infinitely defensive fanboy customers.
It's Christmas day. Don't you have even a scintilla of good cheer and joy for humankind? Or are you an unreconstructed Scrooge wallowing in misery while everyone else is having good fun?
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The semiconductor business and the imaging business are each wholly incorporated entities. They both tree up to Sony group.
It’s possible the Imaging Solutions funded development of certain sensors at Semiconductor Solutions, and those could remain proprietary.
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WOW! You speak as though all a company needs to do is say 'We need a better sensor'and all of a sudden is disappears. It seems you know zip about R&D.yes. Core of the problem at "innovative Canon": R&D resources and money squandered for all sorts of exotic to weirdo patents (e.g. the latest "soft focus" stuff
Canon's greatest asset are their infinitely loyal, infinitely patient, infinitely defensive fanboy customers.
If Sony are so 'innovative' how come they can't even put a fully articulating LCD in their cameras? Or a usable touch screen LCD?
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I agree. But there was a Sony rumors report a couple of months ago that some corporate edict restricts what the sensor division can sell outside the company/group - but to be honest I can't recall if that was you can't ever' or ' you can but you have to let Sony imaging have first crack'
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all I know is that Canon first managed to be 1 big step ahead of all competitors with their CMOS (vs CCD) sensors and then totally fell back about 10 years ago and in all of those years never managed to get on par again ... not to mention "ahead" on sensors. DP-AF way over-hyped, theoretically "brilliant", in practice "decent", but not revolutionary either.
And yes, of course "it does not matter, because they sell most". In a massively shrinking market. LOL.
btw: why stupid Sony does not implement really right, fully articulated and totally responsive touchscreens also beats me. If I were them, I would.
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So it's better to be Sony or Nikon and sell fewer cameras in a shrinking market? The point is, fewer people are buying cameras, but proportionally more are are buying Canon ILCs...which means that your criticisms are fundamentally irrelevant as far as those who really matter are concerned, namely the camera-buying market.
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