EOS 5D Mark IV - the crippled generalist

[KeithBreazeal]

I shot ice hockey with a 5D mark IV for a couple of hours on the weekend and, for me, it is the logical evolution of the mark III. It was like shooting with an old friend that has learned a few more tricks. If you're familiar with the mark III, the new features were easily found and implemented without need for the manual. Touch screen is fine, Anti flicker worked well indoors, the ai servo focus point illumination implementation is not the same as the 1Dx but it will be noticed more where it's needed - in low light. Unfortunately, I haven't got the software yet to play with the RAW files.

One thing that surprised me was that I thought the shutter was noticeably quieter...so much so that I thought I had set it on silent shutter mode.

Caveat - I have no interest in video, so I didn't test the functionality at all.

Pretty clean shot. What was the ISO? I see the shutter speed was pretty high with only a slight blur on the puck.

It was shot at 1/500th, iso2000, f2.8. Due to the variable lighting, I usually have it on auto iso with a +1 exposure compensation. The jpegs looked very clean up to iso 3200.

Thanks Roo. That's a fairly bright arena. When I shoot rodeo events at our fair grounds, the night shooting totally sucks. I need at least ISO 8000, I tried using the 5DS because it has flicker detection. Light was much more even but you could see the shadows shifting left and right due to the light circuits being wired on two separate phases. I can't wait to get the Mark IV and compare the results.

 

[tpatana]

I shot ice hockey with a 5D mark IV for a couple of hours on the weekend and, for me, it is the logical evolution of the mark III. It was like shooting with an old friend that has learned a few more tricks. If you're familiar with the mark III, the new features were easily found and implemented without need for the manual. Touch screen is fine, Anti flicker worked well indoors, the ai servo focus point illumination implementation is not the same as the 1Dx but it will be noticed more where it's needed - in low light. Unfortunately, I haven't got the software yet to play with the RAW files.

One thing that surprised me was that I thought the shutter was noticeably quieter...so much so that I thought I had set it on silent shutter mode.

Caveat - I have no interest in video, so I didn't test the functionality at all.

Pretty clean shot. What was the ISO? I see the shutter speed was pretty high with only a slight blur on the puck.

It was shot at 1/500th, iso2000, f2.8. Due to the variable lighting, I usually have it on auto iso with a +1 exposure compensation. The jpegs looked very clean up to iso 3200.

Thanks Roo. That's a fairly bright arena. When I shoot rodeo events at our fair grounds, the night shooting totally sucks. I need at least ISO 8000, I tried using the 5DS because it has flicker detection. Light was much more even but you could see the shadows shifting left and right due to the light circuits being wired on two separate phases. I can't wait to get the Mark IV and compare the results.

That's very interesting feature of the flicker detection, I didn't even think that. Next question is that would it be more lights somewhere in-between when both phases are almost at peak.

.

 

[Ozarker]

Of the two, I'm much happier to have the wireless capability.

That is my point: Why is it always an either or with Canon? Why like stupid calfs have we accepted that way of thinking? Canon has trained us to do so. Meanwhile our creativity is suffering.

You say "our" creativity is suffering. YOUR creativity may be suffering, but I see photos from truly creative folks whose creativity is obviously not suffering.

Don't expect a camera to give you talent you don't have.

The camera is just a tool. You've got to harness your own creativity. :

 

[Ozarker]

I had typed out a detailed reply, but actually it boils down, once again, to - 'they didn't build the precise camera *I* want, how dare they!' :

^^This

Plus, does anyone actually think someone who chooses 'fussy' as his/her forum identity is going to be satisfied?!?

AvTvMs alter ego.

 

[fussy III]

Don't expect a camera to give you talent you don't have.

Finally a well-founded critique de mon oeuvre! Chapeau, Mr. "If you can't be nice do not say anything at all".
I must admit however that my sentence "Meanwhile our creativity is suffering." was poorly crafted.

 

[fussy III]

I had typed out a detailed reply, but actually it boils down, once again, to - 'they didn't build the precise camera *I* want, how dare they!' :

^^This

Plus, does anyone actually think someone who chooses 'fussy' as his/her forum identity is going to be satisfied?!?

If you are as smart as every now and then I came to assume you were, you should have known the answer: No, not even himself is thinking that! But a tilty would have made me settle for a few years.

btw: Thanks for not joining the troll-accusations. Words like "troll" or "fanboy" seem so unaristocratic, if not meaningless.

 

[Diko]

However I would have liked to get better technology paired with my genious.

A child complains. An adult does what is necessary to meet their needs as best as possible.

Not only children complain. At times, literate perfectionists may feel inclined to do the same, I am afraid.

Sounds to me like your just doing an impression of a dog barking at passing cars

I miss that "tilty-flippy thingy" too, but you say because of the general purpose 5D4 as a tool your creativity is suffering. OK. But what about of creativity for solving problems? Adaptability is the main tool of nature to make the best-survives problem. What about you?

I am tired of hearing of people whining pretentiously that, you see, they couldn't make a good picture because [sarcams]they didn't had enough time for coffee because their brand new camera didn't have that feature built in[/sarcams].

WiFi on phone and/or tablet is a great replacement. A few years ago there was no tilty-flippy on DSLR, you know? I wonder how back then people managed to do great photos? I wonder how really would your photos be highly appreciated? Taking it from an unique angle that otherwise anyone could shoot with a swivel? And personally I must admit that I prefer to be the only one with uber cool pic in the crowd, instead of every second amateur having the same pic. Phone, or on blindly (since that is my current way) I will do everything to make that photo.

Creativity in every aspect is boosting additional tools. Once they are created new frontiers arise. ;-)

 

[Joe M]

It's inevitable, that sooner or later someone always starts lamenting as to what the camera doesn't have. When did a body come out that someone didn't complain about, whether it's a lack of pop-up flash or more (or less) mpxls or buffer or fps and so on? It's always so much more fun to read about what a camera does have and what you can do with it! If anyone thinks their camera isn't all it's cracked up to be, compare it to a 1D or D30, though I'm sure there are still some functional ones out there and in the right hands can also take fine photos. In any case, whenever someone asks for something they can't have, I reply that I too would like to be 22 again but it's not going to happen so just deal with it. Such is life.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

But, not all are asking for that, in fact, many are very vocal in saying we don't want a gimmick feature that compromises the ruggedness of the build.

The Swivel a Gimmick? I hardly ever meet anyone photographing seriously and ably who has ever used it saying that they don't want it. At least not in nature or reportage photography. It may be different in the studio were you work with Hasselblad in Capture on a large screen.

That's anecdotal, and not representative of the market as a whole. As for me, I use the viewfinder for 99% of my shooting. And no, it's not in a studio, nor is it tethered, and not shooting on an MF rig.

The only time I'm using lice view is for macro shots of wedding rings, and the occasional nighttime landscape shot. So yes , for me, and I'd dare say most of us who shoot stills the flippy screen is a gimmick

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

Canon could solve the articulating screen discussion by releasing 2 versions of the 5D IV. One with the swivel screen and one without. The model that sells more would indicate what the pro-sumer wants in a camera. If your worried about rain use rain sleeves. If the articulating screen gets damaged send it in for repair. Flipping the screen towards the camera back protects it from scratches.

I'm no engineer but, aa or no aa is a way easier design to implement than one with a flippy and one without. All doing this would do is drive up the cost of the body. Why do that when you can research the wants and needs of the market? Even looking here at CR, the most asked for things were DR, low Iso IQ, MP's, and fps...and it's seems as though canon addressed this. If their market research showed that a flippy screen was wanted by a majority of the user base then it would be in the mk4. It's not because not enough people are demanding it and quite a few current 5D users don't want the flippy.

I don't ever want to have to worry while shooting a wedding that the flippy screen will get caught on a chair while weaving through a crowded reception hall...

 

[rrcphoto]

Has anyone heard of a right angle viewfinder attachment lately?

If you are shooting a DSLR.. and through the ovf..seems the answer has existed from back in film days.

Then again that's just too easy. :

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Has anyone heard of a right angle viewfinder attachment lately?

If you are shooting a DSLR.. and through the ovf..seems the answer has existed from back in film days.

Then again that's just too easy. :

Yup! I have the one Canon makes. Great for those non-flippy-screen bodies. Old school.

 

[dtgphoto]

i may be wrong but the camera ansel adams used didn't have flippy screen.

i know my old ae1 program didnt.

really the 5d4 is absolutely the best allrounder canon have ever made - shouldnt the people that have invested in superb canon glass like me embrace the evolution of the species ?

mine is on order... and i cant wait.

 

[Ozarker]

Don't expect a camera to give you talent you don't have.

Finally a well-founded critique de mon oeuvre! Chapeau, Mr. "If you can't be nice do not say anything at all".
I must admit however that my sentence "Meanwhile our creativity is suffering." was poorly crafted.

If you thought that was mean, well then you really are "fussy". Enfant triste.

 

[KeithBreazeal]

Which brings me to the subject of "Smart" phones and people that shoot vertically oriented videos.

 

[testthewest]

*TROLL ALERT*

Weird specific needs - hyperbole - ignoring other views - repeating inflammatory statements.

Let's leave 'fussy' to stew in his own disappointment and move on, eh?

I wonder what posts like this are supposed to do? Somebody is sharing his feelings in a post and you had the chances to just pass by and do something else with your life, instead you attack him needlessly. I read most of the posts before - none were nearly as condensing as yours, which exactly as you blame him to be: hyperbole and ignoring other views.

I also feel alot of the things he brought up are not unreasonable and disappoint me as well. I had really hoped for a tilt/flip screen. Is that hyperbole? I wonder why we need a AA filter, if the 5DSr outsells the 5DS so much, that the removal of a piece (so less costs, right?) almost adds 400€ in my region. So these can't be weird specific needs, it seems the majority sees it different.
I don't care too much about video, but I think people have a point if they ask why there couldn't be 2 video codec-options on a 3500$ camera.

If all those things were "weird specific things", then why is the complaining so much?
I feel the truth is canon has not met alot of peoples hopes. You, going full fanboy mode, seem to be blind to valid critisms as if you were paid by canon. Do you really think this is a great camera?

Sure there are nice things (which I will mention to provide a balanced opinion):
- The sensor is good enough compared to the sony sensor
- The DPAF is great
- That new DP-raw seems like a cool feature
- 30 MPix is a bit low, but good enough
- 7 FPS is great. Most understand that higher FPS should be on dedicated sports cameras.

 

[Mr. Milo]

It's ok to complain but the 5D Mark IV is what it is. Nothing will change the specs. It's either you're going to buy it or not. Still complaining? Then take your butt to Sony, Nikon, Panasonic or whatever.

The list of stuff that YOU WANTED; not SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN, is supposed to get you to pony up more cash for the C-line series. That's for the filmmakers.

For the Photographers, it's a great camera. DPAF with Touchscreen, Dual Pixel RAW, and ghosting reduction. Also, Canon designed the mirror flapper in a new way. That's effin' fantastic. More bump in megapixels will not make you a better photographer. I don't get it. No crybabies here. I would be excited for this camera next week in my hands and I'll be set for the next 6 years.

If you followed Canon's history then you know how they operate. If they gave what you want then it's a $10,000 digital film camera that can take awesome pictures. We're not going to buy that because most here cannot afford it. And it discourages customers from investing into their C-line.

If you want more, get a 1DX Mark II. You're a megapixel whore? Get a 5DS R.

You want 4K with C-log then get a Canon XC 15.

I'm still banging out stuff with a Canon 5D Mark II and my audience is not complaining about the lack of 4K, c-log, crushed blacks, dynamic range.

If you cannot do a quality short doc or promo piece with an old dated 5D Mark II then a 5D Mark IV will not make you better. You just flat out suck and make excuses for not being determined to analyze your work to raise your game.

"Oh but I didn't get full frame 4K so my clients will notice and not hire me for gigs"..serious? Wow. Stupid.

"My dynamic range doesn't have enough stops." Not many people gives a crap.

"Too much noise." Again, not many people will notice. It comes down to "Did you get the picture? I was counting on you" type crap. They're not going to say "There's too much noise" unless your stuff is going for Print.

 

[vjlex]

I'm in the "flipscreen" camp. I've wanted it on a fullframe camera long before purchasing the 5D Mark II. I wanted it on the III, and I wanted it on the IV. I still plan to get the IV, but that doesn't negate that I believe it is a good feature that adds more versatility to the camera than it would take away.

Wirelessly connecting a smartphone to act as a viewfinder is cool and might be useful in a lot of cases a flipscreen would, but it is not the same as having a screen that allows you to hold your camera above your head in a crowd and still see what you're shooting. I think using your smartphone as a viewfinder is also going to require one or both of your hands and demand that your camera is attached to a tripod.

I really have a hard time understanding why so many people fight so ardently for less options instead of more. And all the rudeness and insults and condescension really seems uncalled for.

 

[x-vision]

Like so many others I feel alienated from Canon by their decisions to cripple each of the cameras in their lineup in one way or the other.

I hear you, brother.

When it comes to cars, I'd like a car that can do 0-60mph in 4seconds, is a supreme off-roader, can haul a boat, can sit 8 people, etc. - and all the while is compact and has a fuel efficiency of 30+ mpg.

Is that too much to ask??

 

[KeithBreazeal]

I have one camera with a flip screen- a G12.
It's most important feature is flipping it inward to protect the LCD.
Originally, the LCD was to review photos until some nerd decided that a still camera could be tortured by adding a video mode. A monster, they created.
The only thing I don't miss is the old dial-up modem.
I ordered the Mark IV and I'll be perfectly happy with it.