EOS 5D Mark IV - the crippled generalist

[tron]

I'm in the "flipscreen" camp. I've wanted it on a fullframe camera long before purchasing the 5D Mark II. I wanted it on the III, and I wanted it on the IV. I still plan to get the IV, but that doesn't negate that I believe it is a good feature that adds more versatility to the camera than it would take away.

Wirelessly connecting a smartphone to act as a viewfinder is cool and might be useful in a lot of cases a flipscreen would, but it is not the same as having a screen that allows you to hold your camera above your head in a crowd and still see what you're shooting. I think using your smartphone as a viewfinder is also going to require one or both of your hands and demand that your camera is attached to a tripod.

I really have a hard time understanding why so many people fight so ardently for less options instead of more. And all the rudeness and insults and condescension really seems uncalled for.

rudeness is wrong but still flip screen on that camera is wrong (just my opinion). But there is a chance that the new 6d ii will have a flip screen. It will be less robust but may incorporate other features just like 6d vs 5d3.

 

[Maiaibing]

But there is a chance that the new 6d ii will have a flip screen. It will be less robust but may incorporate other features just like 6d vs 5d3.

Incredible that people continue to claim this. Flip screen have no more failure or break rate than normal screens. End of story.

Check out LensRentals stats info.

 

[Jack Douglas]

But there is a chance that the new 6d ii will have a flip screen. It will be less robust but may incorporate other features just like 6d vs 5d3.

Incredible that people continue to claim this. Flip screen have no more failure or break rate than normal screens. End of story.

Check out LensRentals stats info.

Now that you've made that statement it's gotten my curiosity up. Where did you see this analysis of what percentage of flip screens get damaged? I find common sense suggesting otherwise.

I'd like a flip screen on my 6D but not on a 1 series camera and probably not on the 5 series although if it had it I'd accept that. I've had it and used it on a previous Nikon and I'd say I was definitely more careful when handling it and cognizant of it's fragility. Now if I was shooting in challenging circumstances where it might get broken I probably wouldn't be using it. Not to mention that it isn't particularly useful with long lenses when hand held which is mainly my interest.

Canon obviously views it as a potential weak link in their top of the line cameras.

Jack

 

[Refurb7]

Dear All,

Like so many others I feel alienated from Canon by their decisions to cripple each of the cameras in their lineup in one way or the other.

After so many years I was hoping Canon would for once address the generalists among photographers instead of offering bits and pieces here and there throughout their line-up. I wish I could buy a universal camera with multiple identical backups as in the old days of the EOS1n or EOS3. But neither the 5D IV nor the 1Dx II nor the 5DSr nor the 80D fullfill the modern needs of generalist photographers.

Speaking of myself, I photograph wildlife with super-teles, I am into fine-art landscapes and for people-reportages I do wide-angle from the hip and around corners. In all these areas I have come to absolutely depend on a flippy tilt screen that is part of the camera. It just gives you all the freedom to choose the best possible angle of view and some of my best compositions I only found because I employed the flippy-tilt as my third eye. I find it hard to accept that the old Rolleiflex of my dad can do things Canons new generalist fails at. I am not overly lazy, immobile or bashful. I do lie down on the ground a lot in public and nature. However there are many situations when you either physically cannot move your body in the right spot or when doing so is impractical or even dangerous. The 70D/80D does the job, the 5D IV won't

These are my personal must-haves:

-Fullframe
-reasonable speed and buffer
-articulating screen
-highest possible resolution, minimum 30 Megapixel
-weather sealing


list of shortcomings in the 5D IV:

-no articulating screen
-inclusion of AA-filter (Why not bringing a EOS 5D IVr to the market as alternative?)
-buffer is rather limited (why no XQD)
-only offering uncompressed MPEG makes filming 4k impractical to most of us
-no accessory EVF
-no truly silent mode

For the mean-time, I consider selling my 16-35 L IS and adding a Pentax K1 with a 15-30/2.8 to my equipment for reportage and landscape purposes. What I like about Pentax is the fact that allthough they do not have access to all the finest technologies like dual pixel af or even a fast regular autofocus, at least they try to give you everything they can in a single package. But ironically I prefer Canon's flippy-tilt concept over Pentax'.

So why can Canon not try to do their best? How arrogant must the company's managers be to think that they can keep crippling their cameras without loosing market-shares? I honestly mourn. But more so I am angry: Photographing with Canon nowadays feels like sitting in an Opera with a star cast but with those highly acclaimed singers not giving a S___ about the arts or the audience on that very evening. Bad performance. Guess I stick to my old recordings or buy a Pentax instead. Not a big voice but giving their best whenever they go on stage.

I foresee: If the 6D II will come out with a flippy-tilt screen, it will not have more than 5fps.
Deal-breaker? No. But then it will need to have 30Megapixel and no AA-filter. Then to the generalist who can sacrifice fps it could be a compromise that might be worth owning for a few years. The 5D IV definately isn't.

Canon's Earnesty Officially sucks.

You must be some super duper photographer if Canon doesn't make a camera that's good enough for you. Anyway, if you must shoot from a low angle, here is a solution to the flippy screen problem:

Canon Angle Finder C, $199 at B&H Photo.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/183200-REG/Canon_2882A001_Angle_Finder_C.html
Or get the third party version (Ziv brand) for $60.

You're welcome.

 

[Refurb7]

What does everone else think what a generalist semiprofessional or professional camera made by Canon should have looked like in 2016?

It should look like the 5DIV, which looks perfect to me. I shoot professionally and have no problem with any of the specs or design.

 

[Loswr]

To all those suggesting an Angle Finder C... It's pretty much a non-starter because of its main limitation – it doesn't help with the classic hand-held selfie.

 

[Diko]

I'm in the "flipscreen" camp....

...Wirelessly connecting a smartphone to act as a viewfinder is cool and might be useful in a lot of cases a flipscreen would, but it is not the same as having a screen that allows you to hold your camera above your head in a crowd and still see what you're shooting. I think using your smartphone as a viewfinder is also going to require one or both of your hands and demand that your camera is attached to a tripod.

I really have a hard time understanding why so many people fight so ardently for less options instead of more. And all the rudeness and insults and condescension really seems uncalled for.

That last one thing keeps amazing me as well.

Otherwise: I think that with a camera on a monopod (raised above your head) and a smartphone or you could do much better photos than anything else.

DISCLAIMER to all those couch potatoes that can't go out of their comfort zone and do something newer and better: I am no ninja and yet find that the perfect solution for unique journalistic photos in a crowd.

Another scenario is oin a tripod with extremely low light conditions. Than instead of a smartphone I would highly recommend a tablet for better evaluation of the scenario.

EDIT: +1 for the neuro comment. I couldn't said it better.

Man, I gotta get some sarcasm classes from this dude.

 

[scyrene]

*TROLL ALERT*

Weird specific needs - hyperbole - ignoring other views - repeating inflammatory statements.

Let's leave 'fussy' to stew in his own disappointment and move on, eh?

I wonder what posts like this are supposed to do?

My post was supposed to give people who were engaging in fair discussion a bit of warning that the originator of that discussion was probably not interested in it. Trolling is an overused term, but here it seems quite apt - a thread was started whose aims (at least as far as *I* can determine them) were malign, to rile people, and stir things up. And my post is quite clear on the reason I think that.

Somebody is sharing his feelings in a post and you had the chances to just pass by and do something else with your life, instead you attack him needlessly. I read most of the posts before - none were nearly as condensing as yours, which exactly as you blame him to be: hyperbole and ignoring other views.

Sure :

I also feel alot of the things he brought up are not unreasonable and disappoint me as well. I had really hoped for a tilt/flip screen. Is that hyperbole?

I'll assume you're writing in good faith, so, nope. It's not hyperbole to say 'I wish the 5D4 had an articluated screen', it's hyperbole to call it 'crippled' for that reason (or any other minor gripe). I trust you can understand that?

I wonder why we need a AA filter, if the 5DSr outsells the 5DS so much, that the removal of a piece (so less costs, right?) almost adds 400€ in my region.

You realise that nothing has been removed in the 5DsR? A cancelling filter has been added in front of the AA filter. Whether it should add that much to the price, well I dunno. I chose the non-R version primarily because I didn't think the price difference was justified.

So these can't be weird specific needs, it seems the majority sees it different.

Majority? Got a citation for that?

I feel the truth is canon has not met alot of peoples hopes. You, going full fanboy mode, seem to be blind to valid critisms as if you were paid by canon. Do you really think this is a great camera?

Yup, clearly I'm a fanboy (which you seem to define as 'anyone not relentlessly negative and critical about everything Canon does'). Yawn. And do I think this is a great camera? Um, yes. Was the 5D3 a great camera? I think the consensus is it was. And this improves on almost everything. It may not have specific features YOU want, but that doesn't make it a bad camera, and it certainly doesn't make it 'crippled'. If you can't see that, then perhaps you need to check your expectations.

 

[scyrene]

Incidentally, for the record, I'd be quite happy to see a flip-out screen introduced. It wouldn't be crucial to my decision whether to buy the camera or not, but it would allow greater creative freedom for what I do - especially as I find crouching, kneeling, and getting up off the ground increasingly difficult.

(This is what a non hyperbolic post looks like).

 

[Loswr]

Incidentally, for the record, I'd be quite happy to see a flip-out screen introduced. It wouldn't be crucial to my decision whether to buy the camera or not, but it would allow greater creative freedom for what I do - especially as I find crouching, kneeling, and getting up off the ground increasingly difficult.

(This is what a non hyperbolic post looks like).

You Canon-hater. How dare you suggest that anyone would want a feature which Canon, in their infinite wisdom and beneficence, should choose not to provide?!?

(This is not what a non-hyperbolic post looks like.)

;D

 

[scyrene]

Incidentally, for the record, I'd be quite happy to see a flip-out screen introduced. It wouldn't be crucial to my decision whether to buy the camera or not, but it would allow greater creative freedom for what I do - especially as I find crouching, kneeling, and getting up off the ground increasingly difficult.

(This is what a non hyperbolic post looks like).

You Canon-hater. How dare you suggest that anyone would want a feature which Canon, in their infinite wisdom and beneficence, should choose not to provide?!?

(This is not what a non-hyperbolic post looks like.)

;D

:-*

 

[gruhl28]

The lack of a flip-out screen is, for me, the main thing keeping me from wanting to upgrade to full frame.

 

[ritholtz]

The lack of a flip-out screen is, for me, the main thing keeping me from wanting to upgrade to full frame.

What about flip out flash which can act as commander.

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

But there is a chance that the new 6d ii will have a flip screen. It will be less robust but may incorporate other features just like 6d vs 5d3.

Incredible that people continue to claim this. Flip screen have no more failure or break rate than normal screens. End of story.

Check out LensRentals stats info.

The problem with this is its comparing apples to oranges. How many pro/semi-private bodies have flip screens vs how many enthusiast/behinner/consumer bodies have flip screens? I'd be willing to bet that if there were more pro bodies with flip screens you'd find more of them breaking.

 

[Azathoth]

The lack of a flip-out screen is, for me, the main thing keeping me from wanting to upgrade to full frame.

+1

I also want to upgrade to full frame, but unless canon releases a 6dmk2 with a flippy lcd screen, I'l stick with my 70d for a long time.

 

[unfocused]

...I'd be willing to bet that if there were more pro bodies with flip screens you'd find more of them breaking.

I'd be willing to take that bet.

 

[unfocused]

Somebody is sharing his feelings in a post and you had the chances to just pass by and do something else with your life, instead you attack him needlessly. I read most of the posts before - none were nearly as condensing as yours, which exactly as you blame him to be: hyperbole and ignoring other views.

Dang! I thought my post was lots more condescending

You can't always get what you want.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Regarding that Canon angle finder, which I bought last year. It is not the best solution by any means. In theory yes and it does serve some purposes, but not that well.

Jack

 

[dak723]

It's inevitable, that sooner or later someone always starts lamenting as to what the camera doesn't have. When did a body come out that someone didn't complain about, whether it's a lack of pop-up flash or more (or less) mpxls or buffer or fps and so on? It's always so much more fun to read about what a camera does have and what you can do with it! If anyone thinks their camera isn't all it's cracked up to be, compare it to a 1D or D30, though I'm sure there are still some functional ones out there and in the right hands can also take fine photos. In any case, whenever someone asks for something they can't have, I reply that I too would like to be 22 again but it's not going to happen so just deal with it. Such is life.

Yes, and the constant whining and complaining just KILLS this forum. That is why some folks - who could indeed just pass-by and leave no comment - feel the urge to leave comments that criticize the complainers and the whiners. I began shooting with a SLR in 1980 and got my first DSLR (The original digital rebel) in 2004. Today's camera - whether from Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. are FANTASTIC. Coupled with the ability to do post processing on the computer make photography today far more fun, more successful and better in every single way, in my experience. Many different camera models are offered, so that folks can have flip screens if they want, high MPs if they want, high FPS if they want. The choices are there.

But, for some reason, all people want to do is complain. Rather than look at the positive, all they see is the negative. They want a camera to have all the features that they want. Never mind that those features may not be what someone else wants. OTHERS DON"T MATTER.

In other words, they are childish. Calling them out as such may be unnecessary - and, yes, maybe even rude. But they ruin this forum, so we want, beg, plead with them to please grow up. And maybe just maybe, they will understand that by accepting reality - and using today's fantastic cameras HAPPILY - they will actually come to enjoy photography, rather than be consumed with their anger regarding stupid Canon!

 

[BeenThere]

Regarding that Canon angle finder, which I bought last year. It is not the best solution by any means. In theory yes and it does serve some purposes, but not that well.

Jack

Yeah, you still have to get down and put your eye to it; but, it beats eating dirt to get those low angle shots. A floppy screen would be more useful, but maybe more prone to problems too.