EOS 7D Mark II Spec List Surfaces [CR1]

[jrista]

Full well capacity is really more a function of pixel area than pixel Q.E. Area is the defining factor when it comes to how much charge a pixel can hold. Increasing Q.E. might improve sensitivity, which is the rate at which photons convert to charge, but it doesn't do anything to increase the maximum charge (FWC) a pixel can contain. That is why cameras with larger sensors generally perform better than smaller sensors...they have historically had larger pixels.

No, larger sensors perform better (for a given exposure) because they are, well, larger. Pixel size is a secondary, mostly irrelevant factor.

Correct. I did read, and still remember, the article on equivalence. So, correct, assuming you are always using the full sensor area. There are situations where you don't, say cropping for detail. In which case, the part of my answer you did not quote applies...it's a tradeoff. I am not about to say pixel size is the most important factor, however I would say it is far from a "mostly irrelevant factor." It all just depends, and you make the various tradeoffs you have to in order to get what you need so service your own personal photography best.

In the end, one could often make the argument that neither pixel size nor sensor size really matters in the end anyway, as a more significant factor in final image quality is how you process, so long as the image output size is smaller than the input size (which is by and large the most common case these days with publishing occurring on the internet far more than it occurs in print in any form).

 

[Pi]

I am not about to say pixel size is the most important factor, however I would say it is far from a "mostly irrelevant factor."

Let us not take this out of the context in which it was said. We were talking about noise and the large pixel fallacy. I also said that smaller pixels collect more information, that there are tech related factors, etc.

 

[jrista]

I am not about to say pixel size is the most important factor, however I would say it is far from a "mostly irrelevant factor."

Let us not take this out of the context in which it was said. We were talking about noise and the large pixel fallacy. I also said that smaller pixels collect more information, that there are tech related factors, etc.

Ok, fair enough.

 

[Krob78]

I am not about to say pixel size is the most important factor, however I would say it is far from a "mostly irrelevant factor."

Let us not take this out of the context in which it was said. We were talking about noise and the large pixel fallacy. I also said that smaller pixels collect more information, that there are tech related factors, etc.

Ok, fair enough.

Makes sense...

 

[pvk]

Lots of discussion on whether the 7DII will be better than the 1DX or 5DIII. It shows that Canon will have a formidable marketing job to do, but I think it misses the point. The 7DII may have some better features, but as a crop camera, it will never match the results of a top of the line FF camera.

I assume Canon has long decided that the main stream trend will be FF. Maybe that is why they took so long to replace the 7D.

But there are cases where you need the crop to get close enough. That is where the 7DII comes in. As a top of the line 1.6 crop camera. Now for this to work, the image quality and the ISO results must be much better than the current 7D. The price must be below the 5DIII. No need to have the weather sealable body like the 1DX, because a press photographer will not buy it any way. Make it like the 5DIII, basically making the 7DII a crop version of the 5DIII. Add some newer features that you would expect after launching it two years after the 5DIII.

 

[Eldar]

No need to have the weather sealable body like the 1DX, because a press photographer will not buy it any way.

My main reason for being interested in the 7DII is to use it for birds and wildlife. I don´t know what it´s like in your end of the world, but where I go we have rain, snow, dust, humidity and freezing temperatures. I´d say weather sealing is very important. The closer it´ll get to a 1DV, the happier I´ll be.

 

[unfocused]

No need to have the weather sealable body like the 1DX, because a press photographer will not buy it any way.

Are you aware that many, if not most, newspaper photographers are expected to buy their own gear and that the average pay for newspaper photographers is often just above the poverty level?

Are you aware of the quality of reproduction and the typical size used in most newspapers? A 7D is more than adequate in almost all cases.

Perhaps you imagine that the majority of press photographers spend their lives jetting around the world, dodging bullets, covering Olympics or tracking down rare species in the jungle.

A typical newspaper photographer is likely to spend his or her day taking pictures of third-graders doing a class project, doing a portrait of a local business person for a Sunday profile, covering a high school basketball game and if it is a particularly exciting day, rushing across town to take pictures at a house fire. On a slow day, they may spend an afternoon at a local car lot taking pictures of used cars for the dealer's Saturday ad.

 

[Don Haines]

No need to have the weather sealable body like the 1DX, because a press photographer will not buy it any way.

First, weather sealing does not add that much to the cost of a camera... When I shot Olympus, I had a weather sealed E-520 and ALL my lenses were sealed....and that was NOT a high-end camera.

Press photographers take pictures of things like car accidents.... and when it is raining or snowing the number of accidents pick up dramatically.. and where I live we have very wet falls and winters with temperatures that regularly drop below -20C.... and freezing rain, the worst of both, but very pretty. A sealed camera seems like a good thing for those who have to go out and take pictures.

 

[Don Haines]

No need to have the weather sealable body like the 1DX, because a press photographer will not buy it any way.

Are you aware that many, if not most, newspaper photographers are expected to buy their own gear and that the average pay for newspaper photographers is often just above the poverty level?

Are you aware of the quality of reproduction and the typical size used in most newspapers? A 7D is more than adequate in almost all cases.

Perhaps you imagine that the majority of press photographers spend their lives jetting around the world, dodging bullets, covering Olympics or tracking down rare species in the jungle.

A typical newspaper photographer is likely to spend his or her day taking pictures of third-graders doing a class project, doing a portrait of a local business person for a Sunday profile, covering a high school basketball game and if it is a particularly exciting day, rushing across town to take pictures at a house fire. On a slow day, they may spend an afternoon at a local car lot taking pictures of used cars for the dealer's Saturday ad.

+1 and many newspapers seem to be moving away from staff photographers and towards freelance...a move which will not put more money into the pockets of the photographer.

 

[Skirball]

Perhaps you imagine that the majority of press photographers spend their lives jetting around the world, dodging bullets, covering Olympics or tracking down rare species in the jungle.

Don't forget the ladies. Lots, and lots, of lay-dees.

 

[pvk]

Perhaps you imagine that the majority of press photographers spend their lives jetting around the world, dodging bullets, covering Olympics or tracking down rare species in the jungle.

Ok, fair comments, let me be more clear on what I am trying to say. Canon does not actually say much about the weather sealing, at least not what I have found. Anyone has actual official information?

The information I usually find about it is that the sealing of the 1DX is far exceeding that of the 5DIII, which exceeds the sealing durability of the 7D. If you want the durability and sealing of the 1DX, you have to pay for it.

My assumption is that the 7DII will be a (feature wise improved) crop version of the 5DIII, not of the 1DX. Otherwize it will be far too expensive, the 7DII logical price point will be below the 5DIII.

 

[sanj]

To me a 7D would be a bird/wildlife backup camera to the 1DX. The most important thing for me, compared to what the current 7D provides, in order of priority:
1: AF. If it gets the 5DIII AF system, it will be a massive improvement.
2: High ISO performance. If it gets to 5DIII standard, I´ll be very happy
3: Dynamic range. I would love to see the DR number grow by at least 1.
4: Resolution. Provided I can get the above, I would want as much as possible. But I would not trade Noise/DR performance for more resolution.
5: fps. 8 is OK, 10 would make me happy
6: A good silent shutter mode, similar to or better than 5DIII. The 1DX machine gun can scare off grizzlies.

Your wish will be granted.

 

[Krob78]

To me a 7D would be a bird/wildlife backup camera to the 1DX. The most important thing for me, compared to what the current 7D provides, in order of priority:
1: AF. If it gets the 5DIII AF system, it will be a massive improvement.
2: High ISO performance. If it gets to 5DIII standard, I´ll be very happy
3: Dynamic range. I would love to see the DR number grow by at least 1.
4: Resolution. Provided I can get the above, I would want as much as possible. But I would not trade Noise/DR performance for more resolution.
5: fps. 8 is OK, 10 would make me happy
6: A good silent shutter mode, similar to or better than 5DIII. The 1DX machine gun can scare off grizzlies.

Your wish will be granted.

Agreed. That sounds reasonable and desirable. That would be a great 7D MkII and would keep its position as the flagship of the Canon Crop Fleet... It's an upgrade that makes sense and is believable...

 

[Ruined]

To me a 7D would be a bird/wildlife backup camera to the 1DX. The most important thing for me, compared to what the current 7D provides, in order of priority:
1: AF. If it gets the 5DIII AF system, it will be a massive improvement.
2: High ISO performance. If it gets to 5DIII standard, I´ll be very happy
3: Dynamic range. I would love to see the DR number grow by at least 1.
4: Resolution. Provided I can get the above, I would want as much as possible. But I would not trade Noise/DR performance for more resolution.
5: fps. 8 is OK, 10 would make me happy
6: A good silent shutter mode, similar to or better than 5DIII. The 1DX machine gun can scare off grizzlies.

Your wish will be granted.

How about the following additional wishes?
7. Articulating touchscreen for off-angle shots and videos
8. Wifi
9. GPS
10. Retention of pop-up flash
11. 135mbps SD slot to dramatically reduce buffer fill
12. USB 3.0 camera transfer for quicker RAW photo dumps

 

[unfocused]

...My assumption is that the 7DII will be a (feature wise improved) crop version of the 5DIII, not of the 1DX. Otherwise it will be far too expensive, the 7DII logical price point will be below the 5DIII.

That I agree with.

Of course, it's hard to predict a trend when only one 7D and three 5Ds have been produced, but it does seem that Canon positioned the two as basically paired versions of one another. Since the release dates vary by a couple of years it's not surprising that one model tends to leapfrog the other in certain features, but for the most part, they seem to be comparable. Which actually makes a lot of sense.

Give 5D owners a crop version for the reach and other advantages of that format but retain the same basic operational features so its easy to move from one to the other.

Get 7D users used to the same basic feature set of the 5D so that if they decide to try full-frame they are more likely to go for the more expensive 5DIII over the entry-level 6D (that strategy worked with me, by the way).

I've long said that Canon's goal is not to move people from crop to full frame, but to sell enthusiasts, semi-pros and wedding/event photographers two bodies – one crop and one full frame.

I think there is a outside chance Canon could produce both a 7DII that mirrors the 5D and a "7D X" that is targeted to the professional shooters that still miss the reach of the APS-H format. I don't know how large that market might be and whether it would be worth the investment for Canon to produce such a high-end crop sensor. But, regardless, the primary 7DII is likely to remain paired with the 5D as you say.

 

[Don Haines]

To me a 7D would be a bird/wildlife backup camera to the 1DX. The most important thing for me, compared to what the current 7D provides, in order of priority:
1: AF. If it gets the 5DIII AF system, it will be a massive improvement.
2: High ISO performance. If it gets to 5DIII standard, I´ll be very happy
3: Dynamic range. I would love to see the DR number grow by at least 1.
4: Resolution. Provided I can get the above, I would want as much as possible. But I would not trade Noise/DR performance for more resolution.
5: fps. 8 is OK, 10 would make me happy
6: A good silent shutter mode, similar to or better than 5DIII. The 1DX machine gun can scare off grizzlies.

Your wish will be granted.

How about the following additional wishes?
7. Articulating touchscreen for off-angle shots and videos
8. Wifi
9. GPS
10. Retention of pop-up flash
11. 135mbps SD slot to dramatically reduce buffer fill
12. USB 3.0 camera transfer for quicker RAW photo dumps

Sounds good to me.... I don't really care one way or the other about the flash... I find the pop-up flash on my 60D to be quite weak and if you use a large lens you get flash shadows... Pity they can't make it stick up higher....

 

[Don Haines]

I've long said that Canon's goal is not to move people from crop to full frame, but to sell enthusiasts, semi-pros and wedding/event photographers two bodies – one crop and one full frame.

I agree with you. They are different tools for different needs.

About the only thing we can guess with any degree of certainty is that whatever the 7D2 is, it will be better than the 70D. The higher bound is unknown... Some features will most likely be better than a 1DX, some will be worse... New features or improvements have to be introduced somewhere, like dual pixel on a 70D or digic6 on a P/S... It does not mean a re-ordering of the Canon lineup, it's just the order that the new models were introduced.

 

[Eldar]

To me a 7D would be a bird/wildlife backup camera to the 1DX. The most important thing for me, compared to what the current 7D provides, in order of priority:
1: AF. If it gets the 5DIII AF system, it will be a massive improvement.
2: High ISO performance. If it gets to 5DIII standard, I´ll be very happy
3: Dynamic range. I would love to see the DR number grow by at least 1.
4: Resolution. Provided I can get the above, I would want as much as possible. But I would not trade Noise/DR performance for more resolution.
5: fps. 8 is OK, 10 would make me happy
6: A good silent shutter mode, similar to or better than 5DIII. The 1DX machine gun can scare off grizzlies.

Your wish will be granted.

How about the following additional wishes?
7. Articulating touchscreen for off-angle shots and videos
8. Wifi
9. GPS
10. Retention of pop-up flash
11. 135mbps SD slot to dramatically reduce buffer fill
12. USB 3.0 camera transfer for quicker RAW photo dumps

Sounds good to me.... I don't really care one way or the other about the flash... I find the pop-up flash on my 60D to be quite weak and if you use a large lens you get flash shadows... Pity they can't make it stick up higher....

The pop-up flash has no value to me. I would rather have a body with improved weather sealing and no flash. Let's hope Canon agrees to the same spec ... or even provides a positive surprise or two

 

[Chuck Alaimo]

To me a 7D would be a bird/wildlife backup camera to the 1DX. The most important thing for me, compared to what the current 7D provides, in order of priority:
1: AF. If it gets the 5DIII AF system, it will be a massive improvement.
2: High ISO performance. If it gets to 5DIII standard, I´ll be very happy
3: Dynamic range. I would love to see the DR number grow by at least 1.
4: Resolution. Provided I can get the above, I would want as much as possible. But I would not trade Noise/DR performance for more resolution.
5: fps. 8 is OK, 10 would make me happy
6: A good silent shutter mode, similar to or better than 5DIII. The 1DX machine gun can scare off grizzlies.

Your wish will be granted.

How about the following additional wishes?
7. Articulating touchscreen for off-angle shots and videos
8. Wifi
9. GPS
10. Retention of pop-up flash
11. 135mbps SD slot to dramatically reduce buffer fill
12. USB 3.0 camera transfer for quicker RAW photo dumps

Sounds good to me.... I don't really care one way or the other about the flash... I find the pop-up flash on my 60D to be quite weak and if you use a large lens you get flash shadows... Pity they can't make it stick up higher....

correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't the area set aside for the flash replaced by the wifi antennae? Isn't that one of the reasons the 6d, which is more geared towards the consumer crowd than the 7d2, didn't get a pop up flash? I thought it was something to do with the body construction (type of metal would block wifi signal and weather sealing, so they had to put the wifi antennae outside of that shell in that little nub the pop up flash would go).

 

[Don Haines]

correct me if I'm wrong, but, isn't the area set aside for the flash replaced by the wifi antennae? Isn't that one of the reasons the 6d, which is more geared towards the consumer crowd than the 7d2, didn't get a pop up flash? I thought it was something to do with the body construction (type of metal would block wifi signal and weather sealing, so they had to put the wifi antennae outside of that shell in that little nub the pop up flash would go).

Note that the 70D has a pop-up flash and WiFi....


You can put the WiFi antenna anywhere, but the top is the best position....

The GPS antenna is a lot more restrictive, the best signal comes when it is mounted on the top...

Even if the antennas are not on top, you still get a signal, just not as good. Typically the cameras are used in portrait mode and carried lens-down... so the top side/back edge is the preferred position.