EOS M5 - first impressions

[troy19]

thread is getting difficult to read with all those full quotes, what do you think?

 

[privatebydesign]

thread is getting difficult to read with all those full quotes, what do you think?

I agree.

The first photo illustrates why I am going to be getting an M5, the second photo illustrates why Canon solutions are vastly more interesting to me than any third party.

For those that say I should compare the M5 to the 80D I say why? I am only interested in a smaller camera if the package is substantially smaller yet retains very good IQ. The M series does that in spades, after all I can't fit that sublime 22 f2 on an 80D can I?

 

[AvTvM]

fully agree.

would have liked the M5 to be even more compact, not mini-DSLR styled with bulky hump on top.
"rangefinder-style" along the lines of Sony A6#00 series - ideally with pop-up EVF - would fit even better into jacket pocket or small lowepro dashpoint bag attached to legt shoulderstrap of my backpack on all sorts of outdoor and alpine excursions.

if anyone who has M5 and Lowepro Dashpoint 30 or 20 bag - could you please check:
does M5 with 18-55 attached fit? or even with 18-150?
or will M5 plus 22 fit into dashpoint 20 photobag?

 

[docsmith]

I am very curious about the rumored "M" release in Q1. I am thinking that Canon is setting up the "M" to have a similar naming structure as the "D" series.

1Dx, 5D, 6D, and 7D....

I was curious when the M10 was announced, and then when the M5 skipped over the "M4" name, but it would set up perfectly:
"M1"- Technically never used as the original was "EOS-M". But this could be a high end, potentially FF M camera
M5- DPAF, APS-C (for now), built in viewfinder
"M7"- DPAF, APS-C, no built in viewfinder, smaller form factor, but you can attach the EVF to the hot shoe
M10- entry APS-C. no DPAF, no built in viewfinder, etc

I still own the M1. But as I have thought about it, I would probably be most interested in my proposed M7 body where I had DPAF and could attach the EVF as needed.

 

[YuengLinger]

Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)

Regarding weight, I stand corrected. However, I stand by the roughly 20% difference in dimensions. In my mind, "bulk" refers to how much room it will take to stash in a bag. For this, I compare the height, width, and depth, which would be 15%, 15%, and 23%, respectively. Stashing in a bag means we are restricted to the smallest space available for any single dimension, not total surface area of the object. Does this make sense?

From Canon's European web specs:
80D: 139.0 x 105.2 x 78.5mm
M5: 115.6 x 89.2 x 60.6

Well, I don't want to make a big deal out of this - and how much of a size advantage may depend on the bag size you have - but even if you place each camera flat in the bag, you gain space in two dimensions, not a single dimension as you are using for your calculations. So, flat in your bag, the M5 is still 35% smaller not even counting the reduction in height.

+1
No, it doesn't make sense. The space occupied by an object is its volume, not length or area. For cubic bodies, the volume is the height x width x length, and as you first wrote, the M5 is 45% smaller by volume.

Clearly not making real world comparisons. The shape and size with a lens attached must be taken into account. The grip of the 80D is larger, which is where the depth increase comes mostly, but even with the smallest lens, the M5 catches up, as the lens protrudes well beyond the depth dimensions of the 80D.

If you discount shape and adding the lens, in other words, just go by volume, you are not in the real world when comparing effective, practical differences in size.

No, I have not handled an M5. I did borrow a Fuji X-T2 during Thanksgiving, and, comparing it directly to my 80D, realized it didn't make sense if all I wanted was something smaller. Once a lens is on the X-T2, it doesn't feel much smaller, and, ergonomically absolutely didn't work for me. I do see the M5 has a deeper grip.

Nobody is arguing that the M5 is not smaller than the 80D. But the practical difference is not great, and anybody who thinks they are getting something the size of a p&s that can be slipped into a pocket is going to be disappointed.

I still say the advantages of the 80D, even with the size difference, overwhelmingly outweigh the one "pro" of the M5, which is slightly less bulk.

If going for mirrorless, the Fuji X-T2 has better IQ and lenses, and, I believe, best-in-class EVF. (In fact the one that I borrowed really surprised me, even tempted me. Maybe the M5 is just as good--I don't know. Something that will be argued about) And from what I understand, it takes Canon ef lenses with and adapter also. But it isn't for me either, as I don't like EVF as currently implemented, want the longer battery life, better movie, menu, and touch screen functions.

My main point is, if already invested in ef-s and ef lenses, the small size and great features of the 80D outweigh the slight size advantage of an M5. Don't forget the articulated screen which is much more practical...

But, if somebody has no lenses, a slight weight and size advantage matter, why not encourage Canon to keep developing mirrorless? But they'd better get very, very good very, very fast. M5 is a good step.

And mirrorless does have a massive potential market as baby-boomers downsize for various reasons. Will younger enthusiasts see mirrorless as hip, or just another camera bigger than their smartphones?

For me there is a huge difference in size between the M5 and 80D. I currently own an M5 and have extensively used 70D's and 80D's. If you compare volumes in cubic cm, the M5 with 22/2 lens is 745cm3 compared with 1,306 cm3 for the 80D with 24mm STM pancake. The 80D is 75% larger by volume. Weight is 532 gr. vs. 855 gr, so the 80D is 61% heavier. Those are big differences in my book.

If you compare the M5+ 15-45 std zoom to the 80D + 18-55 STM the differences are even bigger. The 80D combo is 121% larger by volume and 68% heavier. OK, these lenses cover somewhat different focal ranges, but both are the most compact kit lens option for each body.

I can carry my M5 and 22mm or 15-45mm lens easily in a jacket pocket and not even notice it's there, its so small and light. I certainly can't do that with an 80D or other even a Rebel with equivalent lenses.

Your "math" concludes that the M5 is only 16% the size of an 80D. Better check your calculations! You are saying you can fit 6 M5's in the volume of an 80D? At least I was in the ballpark. Oy vey.

Nicely presented, though. :

 

[YuengLinger]

thread is getting difficult to read with all those full quotes, what do you think?

I agree.

The first photo illustrates why I am going to be getting an M5, the second photo illustrates why Canon solutions are vastly more interesting to me than any third party.

For those that say I should compare the M5 to the 80D I say why? I am only interested in a smaller camera if the package is substantially smaller yet retains very good IQ. The M series does that in spades, after all I can't fit that sublime 22 f2 on an 80D can I?

I can see that your logic is as strong as ever. Nice trick, comparing the M5 to a 1DX with an L bracket to make a point...Too bad you didn't include a pic of the 80D, which is only slightly larger than the M5.

But it does look like a cool little camera. I hope it provides years of enjoyment and great pics!

 

[bholliman]

if anyone who has M5 and Lowepro Dashpoint 30 or 20 bag - could you please check:
does M5 with 18-55 attached fit? or even with 18-150?
or will M5 plus 22 fit into dashpoint 20 photobag?

I had a Dashpoint 20 that I used for my M1 and 22/2. The M1 fit snugly, but the M5 + 22/2 did not fit due to the slightly larger dimensions and EVF bulge. I sold my Dashpoint 20 with my M1. I believe a Dashpoint 30 would work, but haven't tried one yet at our local camera store.

 

[bholliman]

Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)

Your "math" concludes that the M5 is only 16% the size of an 80D. Better check your calculations! You are saying you can fit 6 M5's in the volume of an 80D? At least I was in the ballpark. Oy vey.

Not sure where you came up with 16%. My point was that the M5 is considerably smaller and lighter than the 80D or any DSLR (other than the SL1 maybe). That's the only reason I own one. I have a 5DsR that I use when I'm doing serious landscape or nature photography. I added the M5 because I wanted something small and light enough I can take it with me anywhere without it being a burden or getting in the way of family activities. The M5 is small enough to fill that need and capable enough to enable me to take great pictures.

 

[YuengLinger]

Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)

Your "math" concludes that the M5 is only 16% the size of an 80D. Better check your calculations! You are saying you can fit 6 M5's in the volume of an 80D? At least I was in the ballpark. Oy vey.

Not sure where you came up with 16%. My point was that the M5 is considerably smaller and lighter than the 80D or any DSLR (other than the SL1 maybe). That's the only reason I own one. I have a 5DsR that I use when I'm doing serious landscape or nature photography. I added the M5 because I wanted something small and light enough I can take it with me anywhere without it being a burden or getting in the way of family activities. The M5 is small enough to fill that need and capable enough to enable me to take great pictures.

Your chart has errors. Depth = 23%, NOT 30% 61.6/78.5=77.2, or 23% smaller...

And you say that the volume difference in mm is 84%, meaning you think the M5 is only 16% the volume of the 80D. YOUR chart.

What am I missing?

 

[AvTvM]

I had a Dashpoint 20 that I used for my M1 and 22/2. The M1 fit snugly, but the M5 + 22/2 did not fit due to the slightly larger dimensions and EVF bulge. I sold my Dashpoint 20 with my M1. I believe a Dashpoint 30 would work, but haven't tried one yet at our local camera store.

Thanks. Just what i thought. Bad news, since the Dashpoint very cleverly allow for both horizontal (=belt) and vertical attachment (backpack or larger camera bag shoulder strap). Also, all other bags were *quite a lot* bigger and bulky last time i checked. Maybe LowePro will launch a Dashpoint 40 for M5 + 18-55 or even 18-150 attached.

 

[neuroanatomist]

I had a Dashpoint 20 that I used for my M1 and 22/2. The M1 fit snugly, but the M5 + 22/2 did not fit due to the slightly larger dimensions and EVF bulge. I sold my Dashpoint 20 with my M1. I believe a Dashpoint 30 would work, but haven't tried one yet at our local camera store.

Thanks. Just what i thought. Bad news, since the Dashpoint very cleverly allow for both horizontal (=belt) and vertical attachment (backpack or larger camera bag shoulder strap). Also, all other bags were *quite a lot* bigger and bulky last time i checked. Maybe LowePro will launch a Dashpoint 40 for M5 + 18-55 or even 18-150 attached.

FWIW, the Dashpoint 30 holds an M/M2 with the M11-22 or M18-55 with their lens hoods mounted in shooting position. I'm not sure if the bulge of the M5 would fit.

 

[AvTvM]

FWIW, the Dashpoint 30 holds an M/M2 with the M11-22 or M18-55 with their lens hoods mounted in shooting position. I'm not sure if the bulge of the M5 would fit.

That's exactly what I am trying to ind out. Currently I do use Dashpoint 20 for M + 22. And Dashpoint 30 for M + 18-55 or 11-22.

Thos Dashpoints offer attachment to horizontal straps (Belt) and vertical straps (backpack) in a unique and clever way. If M5 does not fit into Dashpoint 30 because of the stupid hump, it will make for a very difficult bag search for me. I carry Dashpoint on left backpack shoulder strap for immediate access on my alpine endeavours - summer and winter.

It is one of the reasons why I would have preferred a camera like the Canon EOS M5 camera not in Mini-DSLR-format with bulky hump, but rather in range-finder format with left-side pop-up EVF [similar form factor to Sony A6#00 series ... ideally of course Sony RX-1R II form factor, only with EF-M mount in front].

 

[AlanF]

Re: M5: 2-3 seconds shutter delay in dark scenes (with manual flash and focus)

Your "math" concludes that the M5 is only 16% the size of an 80D. Better check your calculations! You are saying you can fit 6 M5's in the volume of an 80D? At least I was in the ballpark. Oy vey.

Not sure where you came up with 16%. My point was that the M5 is considerably smaller and lighter than the 80D or any DSLR (other than the SL1 maybe). That's the only reason I own one. I have a 5DsR that I use when I'm doing serious landscape or nature photography. I added the M5 because I wanted something small and light enough I can take it with me anywhere without it being a burden or getting in the way of family activities. The M5 is small enough to fill that need and capable enough to enable me to take great pictures.

Your chart has errors. Depth = 23%, NOT 30% 61.6/78.5=77.2, or 23% smaller...

And you say that the volume difference in mm is 84%, meaning you think the M5 is only 16% the volume of the 80D. YOUR chart.

What am I missing?

This is what you are missing. The volume of the 80D, according to the dimensions listed, is 1.84x greater than that of the M5, which is what is usually described as 84% larger. So, when someone says that x is 84% larger than y, it means that x is 1.84 times greater than y, or 1.84 ys will fit into the volume of 1 x.

Unfortunately, percentages are very frequently used in a misleading way to overstate differences.

 

[dcm]

I had a Dashpoint 20 that I used for my M1 and 22/2. The M1 fit snugly, but the M5 + 22/2 did not fit due to the slightly larger dimensions and EVF bulge. I sold my Dashpoint 20 with my M1. I believe a Dashpoint 30 would work, but haven't tried one yet at our local camera store.

Thanks. Just what i thought. Bad news, since the Dashpoint very cleverly allow for both horizontal (=belt) and vertical attachment (backpack or larger camera bag shoulder strap). Also, all other bags were *quite a lot* bigger and bulky last time i checked. Maybe LowePro will launch a Dashpoint 40 for M5 + 18-55 or even 18-150 attached.

FWIW, the Dashpoint 30 holds an M/M2 with the M11-22 or M18-55 with their lens hoods mounted in shooting position. I'm not sure if the bulge of the M5 would fit.

Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.

 

[Al Chemist]

Why don't we all focus on our impressions of the M5 instead of this constant inane discussion of the size difference between the it and the 80D that most of us don't care about.

 

[bholliman]

Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.

Thanks! I think I'll order a Dashpoint 30. I'll use it for my M5 and 22mm as a carry around. As AvTvM pointed out, the Dashpoints ability to attach two ways to a belt or strap is a big advantage.

I picked up an inexpensive Lowepro Adventura SH100 II at Best Buy yesterday. It's larger than the Dashpoint 30 and holds my EF-M 55-200 and M5 with 22mm attached. I put the 55-200 in the bottom with a pad on top and load the M5 +22 on top. Its pretty tight, I have to put the back of the camera down or the EVF bulge prevents the lid from closing. I just took the M5, 22 and 55-200 on a short personal trip and the combo worked great. I missed having something wider a few times, but this combo is pretty versatile and small.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.

Thanks for the info!

 

[dcm]

Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.

Thanks for the info!

The M5 with any EF-M lens, including 18-150 or 55-200, fits the ThinkTank Mirrorless Mover 10 with room to spare. You can wear it on a belt or use the shoulder strap or drop it in your pack.

The M5/adapter with EF 40 or 50 STM also has plenty of room in the MM10. The EF 85 was just a hair too long anyone interested in what other adapted lenses might fit.

 

[privatebydesign]

thread is getting difficult to read with all those full quotes, what do you think?

I agree.

The first photo illustrates why I am going to be getting an M5, the second photo illustrates why Canon solutions are vastly more interesting to me than any third party.

For those that say I should compare the M5 to the 80D I say why? I am only interested in a smaller camera if the package is substantially smaller yet retains very good IQ. The M series does that in spades, after all I can't fit that sublime 22 f2 on an 80D can I?

I can see that your logic is as strong as ever. Nice trick, comparing the M5 to a 1DX with an L bracket to make a point...Too bad you didn't include a pic of the 80D, which is only slightly larger than the M5.

But it does look like a cool little camera. I hope it provides years of enjoyment and great pics!

My logic is strong.

It is not a trick, personally I have those two cameras ready to go to choose from, which do I take? That is the choice I have and I own the M because it and it's lenses are a fraction the size of a FF DSLR or an APS-C DSLR. Argue about an 80D all you like, I still can't fit the 22 f2 on one!

 

[AvTvM]

Dashpoint 30 holds M5 with 22 or 28 just fine. It's a tight squeeze for the M5 and 11-22 or 18-55 with hoods off/reversed (lens down). I can get the zipper closed but its not really that usable in my opinion. Forget it with the hoods in shooting position.

Thanks for the info!

The M5 with any EF-M lens, including 18-150 or 55-200, fits the ThinkTank Mirrorless Mover 10 with room to spare. You can wear it on a belt or use the shoulder strap or drop it in your pack.

The M5/adapter with EF 40 or 50 STM also has plenty of room in the MM10. The EF 85 was just a hair too long anyone interested in what other adapted lenses might fit.

thanks for the info! size and shape of M5 and subsequently carrying options in the field are a good part of my considerations whether to buy this camera or not.

i got bags similar in size and layout to thinktank MM10/MM20. they are good and useful on city trips and short, dedicated photo walks, but not for my mountaineering/backcountry use. i want to carry camera plus 1 zoom lens attached ready for immediate shooting at all times, not in pack. non-zipped dashpoints on backpack shoulderstrap work perfectly for me.

clugdy M5 hump is a pita ...