Firmware Updates: What's possible and what's probable

[unfocused]

With Nikon releasing the D500 and Canon now offering a very nice upgrade to the 70D with the new 80D, it prompts me to raise a topic that I will probably regret starting.

Which is just what is reasonable and practical for firmware updates?

As a former owner of the original 7D, I recall how Canon essentially gave us a new camera through a major firmware update – for free.

I wonder if, with the new D500 and Nikon now starting to compete with a pro-level ASP-C body, and with some of the nice new features of the 80D (additional f8 focusing points for example) if Canon will:

a) shorten the refresh time for the 7DII or
b) again reward owners with a major firmware update.

I suspect we will see less time between the 7DII and 7DIII, thanks to Nikon returning to the market in that product segment. But, since the 7DII is fairly "young" I do wonder if Canon might decide to offer up some firmware upgrades as an incentive to lengthen the life cycle of the camera.

I'm no engineer of any kind so I have no idea what is possible or not possible with firmware upgrades, but I am assuming that some refinements in autofocus, fps, etc., could be possible.

What do others think? Do you believe Canon might repeat their previous strategy and give us a 7D II.2?

If so, what features would be possible and desirable?

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Features are seldom added via firmware updates, but it occasionally has happened. Firmware updates are normally used to fix issues that are significant.

Don't expect to see firmware updated to add features unless there is some benefit to Canon in terms of sales or other income.

Have you ever noticed how many new issues are caused by firmware updates? Even with a ton of testing, a million users can do more testing in a week that Canon can do in a year. They are very reluctant to update firmware without months of testing, and even then frequently have issues.

 

[tron]

They could upgrade 5D3's firmware to give it EC in Manual Auto ISO mode. Also they could increase the min shutter speed in Av Auto ISO just like they have done in 1Dx. But I am sure they will not bother to do so...

 

[kaihp]

They could upgrade 5D3's firmware to give it EC in Manual Auto ISO mode. Also they could increase the min shutter speed in Av Auto ISO just like they have done in 1Dx. But I am sure they will not bother to do so...

+1 Yes please. Unfortunately I believe that your assessment of Canon is right too

 

[unfocused]

Two answers for you...

First of all, perhaps you're viewing it through the wrong set of lens... Some history reminder since Canon-tunnel vision applies from 09-14/15... A long 5-6 years of huh? for the APS-C which was used to getting yearly or bi-yearly updates prior...

...I doubt the designers wanted to give up their reference frames and search grid size as it resulted in (slightly) improved video quality and smaller bitrates with the higher codec spec, but, they probably accepted that tradeoff of not overheating for reduced quality and bigger video sizes. So the masses get a firmware update, they rejoice that their camera doesn't overheat from 4K anymore, but, they didn't know they actually lost something in doing so, IE if they looked, they might notice their new 4K output is bigger, and not as pretty as before the update...

First, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response, which I truncated for space-saving purposes. Your points are well-researched and well-reasoned and provide a very good perspective.

Let me say this. I think adding features through firmware only works if there is a business purpose to do it. Looking at the Canon lineup, I can't see any reason to add features to the 5DIII or any body other than the 7DII.

The 5DIII is too close to the end of its cycle and I'm sure Canon would rather sell 5DIVs than give away features to the already installed base of 5DIII users.

The 7DII makes more sense because it is mid-life and not due for a refresh for at least 18 mos and maybe two years. Still, there would have to be a business reason to do it.

Of course, we don't know and can't know what Canon's strategic thinking may be, so this is pure speculation. But, I think it's possible (not probable, but possible) that Canon might consider some feature upgrades to the 7DII in order to boost sales and keep it competitive.

There are several unknowables: Does the Nikon D500 present a competitive threat to the 7DII?; Does Canon care?; Are any improvements possible and cost-effective.

Ordinarily, I don't think Canon and Nikon worry all that much about feature-to-feature comparisons between competitive models. Customers need compelling reasons to switch brands and a few features here and there generally won't do it. Overall, the 7DII is still very competitive and comparable to the D500, so I'm not sure there is a huge incentive to add new features mid-life. It would only make sense if Canon feels they could add some upgrades that would boost sales and allow them to extend the life cycle of the body by an additional, unknown, time period. And...if the investment required to do that saves them money and generates revenue in the long run.

However, there is another complicating factor here, and that is the competitive superzoom lens marketplace. Canon's 100-400 II is an excellent lens, but it is priced much higher than Nikon's new 200-500 zoom, as well as the Sigma and Tamron 600mm zooms. Several birders on this site have raised the possibility that would consider buying a Nikon body just to use the 200-500 zoom.

I believe the reason we are seeing additional f8 autofocus points on the 80D has nothing to do with selling 80D bodies, and everything to do with selling 100-400 mm zooms with 1.3x converters. So, does Canon consider adding additional f8 autofocus points to the existing 7DII in order to keep people from buying Nikon 200-500 zoom and D500 combinations?

That's probably a discussion for another thread. But, for the purposes of this thread, if additional f8 autofocus points are possible through a firmware upgrade, that might be one that Canon might possibly consider for the 7DII. Again, it won't happen for the 5DIII because it is too close to the end of life.

Just a thought.

 

[Pieces Of E]

Canon DID come out with a firmware update since the introduction of the first 7D MkII. We chose not to install it as there were mixed reviews on it. Thoughts?

 

[tron]

Canon DID come out with a firmware update since the introduction of the first 7D MkII. We chose not to install it as there were mixed reviews on it. Thoughts?

If you read the first post you will see that it refers to major firmware upgrades that increase the capabilities somehow and not minor updates that refer to just bug fixing.

 

[Pieces Of E]

I did read the first post, hence my reply, but as usual, a smart remark like yours drives me back away from Canon Rumors yet again. Good day!

 

[tron]

I did read the first post, hence my reply, but as usual, a smart remark like yours drives me back away from Canon Rumors yet again. Good day!

I apologize if it seemed rude. But I still fail to see how your reply was connected since the first post mentioned major firmware updates and the specific updates were not.

If you would like to grab the chance to ask something else (but still close to topic) then I could accept that. So allow me to answer your question. I coincidentally have 7DII with 1.05. I do not see a difference. But then my camera came with 1.04 loaded not 1.02. I hope this helps.

 

[RGF]

If Canon could find a way to sell firmware I believe that we would see more significant upgrades.Until then, free firmware upgrades, will fix bugs and occasionally a new feature.

In the 5DS MLU can be a 2 button press or a slight (user selectable) delay. this would be easy to put in a firmware upgrade but canon won't. They get nothing for it.

If they could charge, how much would you be willing to pay? $5, $10, $25, $50, $100?

 

[fentiger]

If Canon could find a way to sell firmware I believe that we would see more significant upgrades.Until then, free firmware upgrades, will fix bugs and occasionally a new feature.

In the 5DS MLU can be a 2 button press or a slight (user selectable) delay. this would be easy to put in a firmware upgrade but canon won't. They get nothing for it.

If they could charge, how much would you be willing to pay? $5, $10, $25, $50, $100?

brilliant idea canon make said camera with all the bells and whistles but all have been crippled say for 2k now you pay via firmware what you want switching on, i.e. 14fps or full 4k video either way you could have a super duper stills biased or video biased.

 

[RGF]

If Canon could find a way to sell firmware I believe that we would see more significant upgrades.Until then, free firmware upgrades, will fix bugs and occasionally a new feature.

In the 5DS MLU can be a 2 button press or a slight (user selectable) delay. this would be easy to put in a firmware upgrade but canon won't. They get nothing for it.

If they could charge, how much would you be willing to pay? $5, $10, $25, $50, $100?

brilliant idea canon make said camera with all the bells and whistles but all have been crippled say for 2k now you pay via firmware what you want switching on, i.e. 14fps or full 4k video either way you could have a super duper stills biased or video biased.

Not at all what I meant - though I suspect you are being sarcastic.

Canon will come up new ideas that are worth while and unfortunately the do not update old firmware (like pause with MLU, or multiple My Menu tabs). It would be nice if older cameras, hardware permitting, could get these functions.

Don't dumb down initial release, just allow new features to flow to older cameras.

 

[RGF]

Canon's not going to pull a Panasonic... Not their style.

could you explain your comment about Panasonic?

 

[kaihp]

@RGF

Panasonic offered a paid for firmware update for the GH4, I believe it may be exclusive for European owners, that lifted the 30 minute cap on 4K video to make it unlimited, IE until you run out of battery or card space.

If it was for Europe only, it sounds like that the payment for the EU tax on a "video camera, capable of taking 30m videos".

Yes, we have stupid taxes (and laws) like that.

 

[RGF]

@RGF

Panasonic offered a paid for firmware update for the GH4, I believe it may be exclusive for European owners, that lifted the 30 minute cap on 4K video to make it unlimited, IE until you run out of battery or card space.

If it was for Europe only, it sounds like that the payment for the EU tax on a "video camera, capable of taking 30m videos".

Yes, we have stupid taxes (and laws) like that.

so nothing really for photographers. No new features, ...