Further talk about the fate of the EOS M system

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Lots of opinions, but not a lot of physics. If you have an R body the size of an M body, it won't be any better at handling those big R FF lenses than the M body would.
, View attachment 192571
Who says it has to handle the big RF lenses ? How many people put an EF 70-200/2.8 on a Rebel ? If the RF mount is the future then cheaper bodies and smaller (cheaper) lenses will follow.
 

YuengLinger

EOS R6
CR Pro
Dec 20, 2012
3,452
1,886
USA
From my own observations of photographers I know here in the USA, the M just isn't small enough to compete against smartphones, nor "good" enough to compete against full-frame. Pros I knowwho want something for "off duty" go with a Samsung or Apple phone.

The M might very well be an excellent camera filling a gap for passionate photographers who don't want the bulk and expense of a FF camera--or even ef-s. But the enthusiasts I'm seeing here in my area are leaning towards Olympus, which has had IBIS for some time now. I'm friends or familiar with about 50 very enthusiastic photographers. Not one of them has an M. Just one person's perspective.
 
Sep 2, 2020
3
2
I am waiting - trying hard to decide on a direction. However, the current 'confusing' rumours on high end M and APS-C R have been around in one form or another for some months and don't make decision making any easier. My dilemma is that I want to upgrade from my 600D with a small mix of EF and EF-S lenses but no 'L' series. I want to upgrade to mirrorless and the M series appeals as it continues the APS-C format and is small and light . I am still learning the digital world and major on landscape, but naturally do something of almost everything. In a logical world I would be going for a high end FF R series but, as I do a lot of walking etc, I want as light a package as practical but still with some quality. The forthcoming M series sounds pretty much ideal but, as noted elsewhere, the quality M series lenses to support it are still lacking ...... I wish Canon would publish some definitive plan!!!!
 

Czardoom

EOS 90D
Jan 27, 2020
185
409
As some have mentioned, it certainly makes a lot more sense in the long run, if all the Canon ILMCs had the same mount. So if Canon can make APS-C bodies and lenses that are similar in size and weight to the M line, then it will probably happen. If it does, it will be pretty seamless in my opinion.

As usual, the folks on this forum are forgetting the M target consumer. When their M50 or M6 II is no longer working, or they are looking to replace it in 5-10 years, they will go to Best Buy or look online, and they will see if there is a Canon camera that is similar to their M. They won't care what it is called, they probably won't care if it is APS-C or FF, they will want one of the the smallest, inexpensive Canon models. If they say to the salesman, I only want the body, I already have a lens or two, the salesman will let them know that their M lenses will no longer work on the camera...but, here is the kit with lens for only $150 dollars more. OK, deal done.

Yes, I understand that having lenses that will no longer work if the line is discontinued will be annoying (as an Olympus M4/3 owner, the future of my camera and lenses is up in the air), but generally speaking, M owners will have paid well under $1000 for all of their lenses and will have gotten many years use out of them. If this had happened to the EF lenses, where a typical user may have spent many thousands of dollars on lenses, the loss would be substantial. The M target consumer - in the majority of cases - may never have bought anyhting but the kit lens. Not a great loss.
 
  • Like
Reactions: zim

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
592
678
Who says it has to handle the big RF lenses ? How many people put an EF 70-200/2.8 on a Rebel ? If the RF mount is the future then cheaper bodies and smaller (cheaper) lenses will follow.

Actually i've seen quite a few using a bunch of L lenses on Rebels, like 70-200 variants, 100-400 and even big whites like 500mm. It's nice to have options.
 

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
592
678
From my own observations of photographers I know here in the USA, the M just isn't small enough to compete against smartphones, nor "good" enough to compete against full-frame. Pros I knowwho want something for "off duty" go with a Samsung or Apple phone.

The M might very well be an excellent camera filling a gap for passionate photographers who don't want the bulk and expense of a FF camera--or even ef-s. But the enthusiasts I'm seeing here in my area are leaning towards Olympus, which has had IBIS for some time now. I'm friends or familiar with about 50 very enthusiastic photographers. Not one of them has an M. Just one person's perspective.

The M is great for travel tho. I love to take it with me on travels because it's really small with 1 or 2 lenses, you can even put the 22mm prime in your pocket.
Not as small as a smartphone but small enough to take it everywhere.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
Actually i've seen quite a few using a bunch of L lenses on Rebels, like 70-200 variants, 100-400 and even big whites like 500mm. It's nice to have options.
Yes there are some, but it's few and far between when you consider the amount of Rebels out there. However, like you say, it's nice to have options. I've used my 135L on my daughter's 1100D :)
 

Baron_Karza

EOS RP
Feb 17, 2019
343
412
"I am told that there is nothing in regards to the EOS M in the 2021 roadmap"
In the words of Phil Collins:

Su Su SONY!!

Actually, since my gf already has a couple of Sony A6xxx cameras, I'm not gonna go Sony.

If there will be another M50 like camera, even if the last M ever, I'll still get it as long as they add IBIS to it.
I already have all the lens I'll ever want for it:
15-45 kit
55-200 kit
+ EF adapter for my FF lenses

11-22 <--I may get this one too, just wish it was faster (would sacrifice long end to keep size down)


R6 and 6400 would take care of everything else
 
  • Haha
Reactions: privatebydesign

Whowe

EOS 90D
Mar 4, 2020
121
128
How come no one is talking about the Rebel Series? Seriously, there has to be a plan for that series. That would include $400-$500 bodies and $700-$900 kits. this is also a huge sales point for Canon. I always thought the low end of the M-series would be directed toward that market.
 

Czardoom

EOS 90D
Jan 27, 2020
185
409
I am waiting - trying hard to decide on a direction. However, the current 'confusing' rumours on high end M and APS-C R have been around in one form or another for some months and don't make decision making any easier. My dilemma is that I want to upgrade from my 600D with a small mix of EF and EF-S lenses but no 'L' series. I want to upgrade to mirrorless and the M series appeals as it continues the APS-C format and is small and light . I am still learning the digital world and major on landscape, but naturally do something of almost everything. In a logical world I would be going for a high end FF R series but, as I do a lot of walking etc, I want as light a package as practical but still with some quality. The forthcoming M series sounds pretty much ideal but, as noted elsewhere, the quality M series lenses to support it are still lacking ...... I wish Canon would publish some definitive plan!!!!
I am sure Canon has no definitive plan, with the Camera market, and the Covid and post-Covid economy, in flux. I am sure they were going to release a 5D V, but recent rumors indicate otherwise due to the unexpected success of the R5 and R6. I think, to a certain extent, they will be throwing various cameras out there and see what sticks. On the other hand, I would see no reason not to go with your plan of buying an M camera and a small mix of EF and EF-S lenses. If they discontinue the M line in 2021 0r 2022, what difference will that make to you. The M camera and the lenses you buy will last for years. If you decide to get an R camera in the future, all your EF and EF-S lenses will work fine on that. Since your plan did not include getting any M lenses, I see no reason to change your mind due to an online rumor. And, quite frankly, unless you are a pixel peeper, the M lenses are just fine and some are excellent. The best thing to do, of course (if possible) is to rent an M series camera and whatever lenses you are interested in, and see if you like it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Waldo

Sibir Lupus

EOS M6 Mark II + EOS M200
Feb 4, 2015
157
112
37
Who says it has to handle the big RF lenses ? How many people put an EF 70-200/2.8 on a Rebel ? If the RF mount is the future then cheaper bodies and smaller (cheaper) lenses will follow.

I put an EF 70-300mm L lens on my M6 Mark II :). And do understand that a camera body can only be so small compared to it's mount. This is one reason why Canon originally went with a smaller diameter mount for the EOS M system.
 

Colorado

EOS M6 Mark II
Dec 16, 2013
53
152
Yeah, except your whole premise is flawed. There has not been a bunch of quick mount changes. Reality is far more reliable a world to live in than just making up something completely irrational that will never happen. The ILC market has been hammered unbelievably. Canon will do what needs to be done to survive. I believe Canon stated a couple of years ago that the path forward would be to concentrate on the high end. The low end is getting eaten alive by smartphones.
To be clear I don't have any skin in this game. I don't own and M-line camera so it can be continued or discontinued and I won't be affected. My point is that the latest batch of rumors aren't consistent. Canon has two choices:

(1) End of life the EF-M camera line and lenses. Budget market is either conceded to smartphones or an APC sized RF camera is produced.
(2) Continue the EF-M camera and lenses if market studies show that it is distinct enough from an APC RF camera and smartphones to be profitable.

What they can't (or shouldn't) do:

Release two new EF-M bodies including a cadilac model with professional features but then immediately (as in within a year) end of life the EF-M mount and produce zero lenses that would match well with a high end EF-M camera. If someone paid $1500 for a high end EF-M camera and then found out Canon had no plans to support it with lenses I would understand if they were annoyed.
 

SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
2,190
2,065
I put an EF 70-300mm L lens on my M6 Mark II :). And do understand that a camera body can only be so small compared to it's mount. This is one reason why Canon originally went with a smaller diameter mount for the EOS M system.

I've done the 100-400 II L, on my M6 Mark II. Worked tolerably well photographing snow leopards at the San Diego Zoo.
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
373
340
Who says it has to handle the big RF lenses ? How many people put an EF 70-200/2.8 on a Rebel ? If the RF mount is the future then cheaper bodies and smaller (cheaper) lenses will follow.
An APS-C R would be be perfectly functional with smaller lenses, but but most of the folks bloviating here are talking about a 7DII replacement. A 7D II is considerably bigger in every dimension than an R5 and 23% heavier. That is a good piece of what makes it popular for use with big lenses. A much smaller (than R5) body is NOT a functional replacement for a 7DII (at least for the crowd that is wishing).
 

unfocused

EOS-1D X Mark III
Jul 20, 2010
5,878
3,052
67
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
I have been and continue to be skeptical.

On the other hand, I can believe that Canon's endgame is to consolidate all its bodies into a single mount and eventually retire the EF, EF-S and M mounts. They may have already decided that that is where they want to end up and the debate is over how soon they can get there while still expanding their market share. (And, let's not forget that for Canon, it will always be about increasing their market share.)

The diameter of the RF system lens mount would limit how small they could make their future APS-C bodies (It looks like a little more than a 1/4 inch difference in diameter). Would that make a huge difference in portability? I'm guessing that would depend on whether or not the overall size of the body would have to be larger and my other guess is that the length of the lens and the front element diameter of the lens is more important.

The nice thing about moving to the RF system for everything is that you can have complete interchangeability between lenses -- you can mount an APS-C lens on a full frame and have the camera crop the field of view. And, of course, you can mount a full frame lens on the APS-C body just like you could with the EF system.

For those M buyers that will never buy any lens except the one that came with the camera, there would be no concern about dropping the line. So, it only affects those who actually use the interchangeable lens feature of the M. Only Canon knows what percentage of customers they represent, but it is probably smaller than we imagine.

Canon could begin introducing RF mount APS-C bodies and lenses in the next 1-2 years and take another five years or so to transition away from the M mount. They could follow a similar timetable for the Rebel series and probably a 7-10 year transition for the EF series (introducing a amalgamation of the 6D and 5D sometime in the next year -- as previous rumors have hinted) and possibly offering one more version of the 1Dx, depending on how rapidly the professional market adopts the R5.

Of course, this assumes that Canon actually wants to get out of the DSLR market, which I am still doubtful about. I think it is entirely possible that Canon hasn't decided anything yet, but is following the market to see what consumers do.

As a 1Dx III user and an R user, I still find many advantages to the DSLR that will be very difficult to overcome with a mirrorless body and I don't buy the argument that Canon can't afford to keep both lines going. I suspect that Canon has not closed the door on anything yet and won't until they are confident that any decision they make will expand, not reduce sales.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dragon

PiezoSwitch

EOS M50
Aug 22, 2019
28
43
There is a real and distinct size advantage to the M series. At a minimum any R APS-C body must have a complement of pancake lenses to provide a similar level of portability. There is a quality gap with the resolution of the new 32mb sensor and the vast majority of existing EF-M lenses which is also signals of a lack of commitment. Sad to see.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
CR Pro
The diameter of the RF system lens mount would limit how small they could make their future APS-C bodies (It looks like a little more than a 1/4 inch difference in diameter). Would that make a huge difference in portability?
Put a RF mount on an M5 and it only looks slightly more ridiculous than the EF mount on the SL series, so an R series replacement for the M series could be pretty damn small, and as you say, it makes sense for Canon going forward to focus on one mount, and smaller, lighter APS-c lenses would seal the deal for many.
 
<-- start Taboola -->