Help with 8mm video copying

[Jack Douglas]

I don't know if you stumbled across it yet, but I found this video quite nice for comparing the Click vs the Elgato:

To me, the Elgato gives a more appropriate view of the original footage.

Also, I want to thank you for bringing up the topic. It gave me the push needed to getting back into digitizing my remaining VHS tapes.

Although it also did rekindle the same question of quality against investment that you struggled with. Dissatisfied with the information on the internet, I just decided to buy the Elgato and also get myself an S-Video adapter and cable, since my VCR has a scart output and I believed it might be capable of S-Video output perhaps.

The purchase of the Elgato Video Grabber is a definite upgrade over my previous CSL Video Grabber USB device. It applies less oversharpening and less saturation, but this leads to a far more natural image in my eyes. It also seems to suppress artifacts better.

This is over a composite connection.

The S-Video connection purchase seems to have been a waste of money so far. I actually do get a picture, but it shows a constant pattern of diagonal across the image. From what I gather, this is to be expected when using an output device that does not actually support this output type.

So I asked a few older relatives if they perhaps still have some devices around to play back VHS, so that I could compare them to mine and perhaps one would support S-Video. But it looks like most have eliminated their dated hardware.

I'm somewhat busy currently, but I'll post some side by side pictures of my results once I get to it.

The "somewhat busy" statement resonates with me. At this moment I'm still waiting on my friend for feedback on whether he has a computer card for me that will work, so I haven't moved on any purchase. Thanks for added information that I will run over in due course. Meanwhile I'm fomenting over whether I would be wasting my precious few dollars with this negative film copier since that's the other digitizing I need to do.

Plustek OpticFilm 8200i AI - 35mm Film & Slides Scanner. IT 8 Calibration Target + SilverFast Ai Studio 8.8, 7200 dpi Resolution 64Bit HDRi, Mac/PC : Amazon.ca: Office Products

Plustek OpticFilm 8200i AI - 35mm Film & Slides Scanner. IT 8 Calibration Target + SilverFast Ai Studio 8.8, 7200 dpi Resolution 64Bit HDRi, Mac/PC : Amazon.ca: Office Products

www.amazon.ca

Jack

 

[Kuja]

Maybe you don't have to spend that much money, and "scan" your slides or negatives with your R5 instead?

For my 35mm film "scans" I'm using a cheap East German Pentacon slide copier with an EOS EF to m42 adapter,
together with a Pentax 100mm macro lens at F8 (reverse mounted for better correction).
A Canon MT-24EX flash is used for back lighting with a manual power setting.
The Camera is 5Ds, I shoot RAW, process in DxO or Capture One RAW converters, and the results are outstanding, much better than many scanners I've tried, and comparable to higher end devices.

The only downside is that if you work with color negatives, the process of getting good colors in RAW conversion software as Capture One or DxO is not automated as in specialized scanner software.
There is a learninig curve, but when you understand the process and do it right, the results can be even better than the automated scanning software.

This is the unit (I have a M42 vesion), there are plenty of them on eBay:

And of course there are many other brands too, you just have to use a correct mount adapter for your Canon.

Pentax:

Olympus:

Minolta:

 

[Kuja]

Just type in Google "DSLR scanning" or "DSLR film scanning" and you'll get many useful links.

DSLR Film Scanning: The Secret to Perfect Color Negatives

Get incredible Color & Tone from your Film Negatives with this DSLR Film Scanning guide. FREE In-Depth Video, Equipment Guide & Comparisons.

natephotographic.com

Let's see your DSLR film scanning setup!

Ok, let’s see it! Pictures and/or descriptions of your current DSLR Scanning setup. Just reply to share it! (Bonus points for sharing a few conversions using your setup!)

forums.negativelabpro.com

...etc.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Just type in Google "DSLR scanning" or "DSLR film scanning" and you'll get many useful links.

DSLR Film Scanning: The Secret to Perfect Color Negatives

Get incredible Color & Tone from your Film Negatives with this DSLR Film Scanning guide. FREE In-Depth Video, Equipment Guide & Comparisons.

natephotographic.com

Let's see your DSLR film scanning setup!

Ok, let’s see it! Pictures and/or descriptions of your current DSLR Scanning setup. Just reply to share it! (Bonus points for sharing a few conversions using your setup!)

forums.negativelabpro.com

...etc.

I can see clearly that I've taken the thread into another topic, an intensive one that is already being discussed elsewhere. That wasn't my intention but I certainly appreciate the last couple posts because they are very helpful and contain a more basic explanation that is more at my level.

What I was hoping to avoid was another significant project and its learning curve because I never catch up on old projects or worse, necessary repairs etc. Acreage living brings with it some extra jobs as well.

I can easily understand that the results going down this path would be superior and perhaps even for somewhat less that the $650 CAD but without getting heavily into the topic would I end up with a nightmare - that's the question and what I'm leery about. I had previously read a bit on another thread and said to myself, this is presently going over my head.

OK, I have the R5 and maybe a lens - would my EF24-70 when set to 70mm in macro mode work? That would be my first question. Next would be the process of going to a positive using ON1, which I've never investigated, assuming it's possible. No LR or PS in my future at my age. Beyond that, what I would need is Kuja as my next door neighbour!

A quick search on Kijiji here yields zero, so I'd be dealing from afar, which means potentially getting ripped off since I'm pretty ignorant on this topic.

So that's where I'm at on negative scanning.

The older Hauppauge unit digitized two 120 8mm cassettes and on the third I've run into a sync type issue. Normal 1 second with brief sound, stationary pic for 4 seconds, and this repeats and never corrects (I don't think). Once after rebooting my computer it seemed for a while to correct. It's time consuming rewinding tape and finding the location and retrying and so I bogged down and temporarily did other jobs. I had a head cleaning tape that I ran through and it might have helped a little but I don't think so. Otherwise, I was just trying "shot in the dark" things without success.

Jack

 

[stevelee]

I have tried using my iPad as a lightbox and just laying slides on it. The pictures I took with my 100mm macro lens were not bad at all, but still less handy than using my slide scanner.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Thanks for this suggestion. There are some for sale used based on a quick search of Kijiji but I'll have to now wrap my head around this new idea. Prices were not that high either.

Jack

I've had a couple of the Panasonic units, both died. They wanted DVD Ram disks. By coincidence, I cleaned out my closet and have three five packs of new DVD Ram disks next to me, trying to figure out what to do with them. The Recorders would also do certain writable DVD's, I think +R's or something like that.

I digitized all of my old home movies, early Beta and VHSC, super VHSC stuff years ago. I could do better now, I'm sure, but the time involved and getting players that do a good job is the issue. I used to have the Panasonic high end players, but I don't think they work any longer. I have an old Beta player that is likely defunct. I have a good Super 8 projector and one of the cheap optical adapters to use a camcorder to copy 8MM. I have a old DVR camcorder that may still work. It had a digital out so I could copy directly to a computer file.

I'm not even certain where the DVD's are stored much less the originals.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Kuja, that link is very helpful, thanks.

Jack

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

It's $230 CAD Amazon but that is no problem as long as it does a good job. So that's another option I'll consider. Thanks.

Jack

Thats pretty excessive. I did not think the exchange rate was that high. Then, they tack on shipping and import fees. I sell on Amazon and can setup to sell to other countries for a stiff fee. Apparently, that is what is happening, all those fees double the price. Diamond sells what appears to be the same unit here for $120.

Amazon.com

 

[Kuja]

The older Hauppauge unit digitized two 120 8mm cassettes and on the third I've run into a sync type issue. Normal 1 second with brief sound, stationary pic for 4 seconds, and this repeats and never corrects (I don't think).

This looks like a problem that could be solved with the use of a time base corrector (TBC) that I have mentioned earlier.
Without the TBC, any video discontinuity (due to tape imperfections, etc.) could bring digitizing process to a halt.

Majority of Digital8 cameras with firewire outputs and DVD/HDD recorders have the TBCs inside them.

Cheaper/amateur standalone video capture devices and video caputre PC cards almost certainly do not, so you could run into the same problem again if you decide to go this route.

 

[Kuja]

When I digitized my VHS collection, I have used a DVD/HDD recorder as a TBC passtrough device.

Whithout it, my first trial captures were somewhat jerky, blurry and wavy, and the smallest tape problems would freeze the digitizing process.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Well.... now I have no camcorder to play the tapes on - it's dead and it smells.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

When I digitized my VHS collection, I have used a DVD/HDD recorder as a TBC passtrough device.

Whithout it, my first trial captures were somewhat jerky, blurry and wavy, and the smallest tape problems would freeze the digitizing process.

I'm sure a TBC would help images. Old players seem to struggle just playing back the old tapes. I tried 3 of them before I found one that did not jerk or tear images . I'm hot sure if my old Sony DV camcorder would play back Hi 8 tapes, I never have had any. I have lots of old SVHS tapes, I'm not sure if I have a working SVHS player, the power supply died in one of my two Panasonic AG series SVHS players.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Update: I bought a Sharp Viewcam that happened to show up just when my Sony died so I'm $35 poorer but at least back to copying. It has been working very close to as well and maybe at time a touch better than my Sony, but still has the TBC issues sometimes, grr, relative to the computer digitizer.

After the TBC commentary I got to wondering if the Video recorder we bought my daughter long ago would have analog input and it does. It's a Canon D50A and now I'm wondering if it would be better to borrow/inherit that and record to dvd and then transfer to the computer. It's in Calgary, I'm Edmonton area so it isn't easy to try at this moment. I never imagined when I started this thread that weeks later it would still be running but here I am the advice has been very appreciated!

Jack

 

[Rocky]

I am going to share my experience of digitizing video here.
I have a Panasonic Mini DV camcorder ( Model # PV-DG250, about 16 years old). Its analog to digital converter can be used as a stand alone A/D coverter without running the DV tape. I can just connect the analog input ( audio and video) from another source( 8mm, VHS etc) to the camcorder and the digital output to the computer , run the 8mm or VHS tape. Everything will be digitized and save in the computter. May be other brand of DV camcorder may have the same capability.
As for digitizing negative or slide, even printed photo, I used a $220 Epson V600. Do not be over sold by high resolution scanner. Your slides or negative will never achieve the resolution of more than 4800dpi, especially the color negative even with the best lens and camera. FYI, a 35mm slide will be 77.8M pixel at 7200 dpi. do you need that big of file per slide??

 

[Jack Douglas]

I am going to share my experience of digitizing video here.
I have a Panasonic Mini DV camcorder ( Model # PV-DG250, about 16 years old). Its analog to digital converter can be used as a stand alone A/D coverter without running the DV tape. I can just connect the analog input ( audio and video) from another source( 8mm, VHS etc) to the camcorder and the digital output to the computer , run the 8mm or VHS tape. Everything will be digitized and save in the computter. May be other brand of DV camcorder may have the same capability.
As for digitizing negative or slide, even printed photo, I used a $220 Epson V600. Do not be over sold by high resolution scanner. Your slides or negative will never achieve the resolution of more than 4800dpi, especially the color negative even with the best lens and camera. FYI, a 35mm slide will be 77.8M pixel at 7200 dpi. do you need that big of file per slide??

Thanks. Good points. The Canon unit unfortunately will not feed directly to the computer, it has to go DVD but that's just an inconvenience. i had a flat bed with the frame for negatives and one of my bigger problems was dealing with static and dust but probably I wasn't serious enough at the time. My scanner is now my printer and I won't get another flat-bed.

Jack

 

[becceric]

Thanks. Good points. The Canon unit unfortunately will not feed directly to the computer, it has to go DVD but that's just an inconvenience. i had a flat bed with the frame for negatives and one of my bigger problems was dealing with static and dust but probably I wasn't serious enough at the time. My scanner is now my printer and I won't get another flat-bed.

Jack

My Epson Perfection scanner wasn’t quite “perfection” as hinted at for scanning my slides. The Epson software no longer functioned on my iMac, but Apple’s Image Capture program took on the job. There was a dusty haze on the flatbed’s glass, but after disassembling, cleaning and trying it again, there was only a slight improvement.
My brilliant wife advised my to try shooting the slides while placed on the lightbox she gave me many years ago. My 100mm f/2.8 macro L lens and a tripod helped complete the task with much better results. She has a great head on her shoulders (especially when she smiles) and I thank her continually for her good ideas.