How does the reveal of the final 7D2 specs make you feel?

[Marsu42]

Because everything else on this spec list is pretty solid

And it'd better be, this is a hilarious amount of money for a crop camera that will be outgunned iq-wise by every cheaper ff out there. Remember that the alternative to spending this amount of €€€ for a camera body is to buy a (better) lens... what will show more in the resulting shots?

Unless you're really a focal-length limited sports or wildlife photog who wants a sealed machinegun-mirror (and accompanying sound!) the 6d is something a lot of people will consider even if its af is mediocre at best.

Partly it's high expectations, but partly it's the reality that Canon cannot hit every variable out of the park. 'Over the moon' would imply that the camera -- top to bottom -- checks off all of your boxes.

Canon has to blame themselves that such a timespan 7d1->7d2 will generate unrealistic expectations like a "mini 1dx". But really, they're around for making profit and not giving away x-mas presents. If a camera below the premium model would check all boxes, their marketing div. would have failed.

 

[ahsanford]

[Marsu said lots of good stuff.]

That's why a 'flagship-level crop body' is such an odd, odd duck. It's meant to be your last crop body before you make the plunge to FF, but the cost of the big white superteles gives the 7D a small slice of pros who say "Hell, I'll pay $3k, $4k for this if it saves me from having to get a 600mm L lens."

And that's why Canon should offer this for $5000 for the first three months and then drop it down to the $1800-ish we're expecting. Some folks have to buy this based on the glass they own and the reach they must have. Canon really owns them.

- A

 

[Marsu42]

[Marsu said lots of good stuff.]

I'll bookmark that quite for my history yearbook

That's why a 'flagship-level crop body' is such an odd, odd duck.

Is it? We don't know what marketing Canon will attach to the 7d2, all-around premium crop or specialized machine gun.

To their credit, their marketing is more often more spot on than people imagine, for example they clearly sell the 6d as a tourist landscape camera in their leaflet I got at the cps - according to this, the mediocre af has to be excused. With the 7d2, they'll probably not imply it's good for low-light shooting (or high-shutter tele).

 

[Tugela]

I am disappointed since I was hoping for a camera that would combine my general still and video needs. They are capable of making such a camera at a consumer price range, but for whatever reason they have chosen not to do so. I have been waiting for such a camera for years now, and Sony and Panasonic are making products in that niche, but Canon just seem to be doing nothing. How much longer do I need to wait?

I want to show product loyalty to Canon, but frankly they are just not addressing the needs of my segment of the market.

 

[Tugela]

[Marsu said lots of good stuff.]

I'll bookmark that quite for my history yearbook

That's why a 'flagship-level crop body' is such an odd, odd duck.

Is it? We don't know what marketing Canon will attach to the 7d2, all-around premium crop or specialized machine gun.

To their credit, their marketing is more often more spot on than people imagine, for example they clearly sell the 6d as a tourist landscape camera in their leaflet I got at the cps - according to this, the mediocre af has to be excused. With the 7d2, they'll probably not imply it's good for low-light shooting (or high-shutter tele).

No one defines themselves as "tourist landscape photographers", so if that is who they are marketing to, they are selling to an empty room.

 

[Marsu42]

No one defines themselves as "tourist landscape photographers", so if that is who they are marketing to, they are selling to an empty room.

That was only my summary of it, I don't have the brochure anymore, but I imagine would be "ideal for travel" yadayadayada "world class-leading low light 11pt af" yadayadayada "use wifi for never-seen before outdoor shots" and so on. So nothing about tracking or such.

Btw I love their 6d wifi remote sample scene with the guy standing on a lake shore with his camera in the water on tripod. Great you're not getting wet feet with the 6d. But how do you manage to put the camera there in the first place, and how do you frame the scene w/o a robotic ball head :-> ?

 

[ahsanford]

Is it? We don't know what marketing Canon will attach to the 7d2, all-around premium crop or specialized machine gun.

First, to the comment above: I think the needle is leaning ever-so-slightly towards the specialized machine gun, but it's not slammed all the way over. If it had an integral grip, solid top without seams for a flash, published specs of a massive buffer, F/8 AF points scattered all over the viewfinder for the reach-obsessed folks on teleconverters, etc., then I'd say the the needle would be all the way over and they'd ask for $2,500 for it. But the specs shown are probably going to be marketed similar to a 1D4 with a different product: an action camera with great reach.

But the 6D and 7D2 user bases are completely different animals to me. Both may be priced about the same, but that doesn't mean they'll attract the same users:

• 7D2 folks are one of two groups to me. The first group -- the first-in-line early pre-orderers on day one -- will largely be sports/wildlife/birding folks who either can't afford superteles, or pros who can afford them but would rather not have to lug the biggest ones in the field all the time. The second group are the 'stuck in crop for a host of reasons' shooters -- the 7D2 will be the top-of-the-line call as the big upgrade for Rebel or XXD owners looking for a new body, or for folks fully bought in to EF-S glass and stubbornly refuse to sell off those lenses to move to FF.
  
  
• 6D folks run a much wider gamut of users -- pros just getting started, art/photgraphy students who prefer more potential for IQ without the bells and whistles, concert photogs for that -3 EV AF point, old manual settings/film shooters who are just now making the move to digital and hiss like reptiles when their brain first tries to process crop factors, wealthy folks buying their first SLR but wanting to have a nicer camera than the masses, etc. It's a real mixed bag here.

I don't think one camp is better or worse than the other, it's just different strokes for different folks.

I have, on many occasions in this forum, predicted the 7D2 could cost more than the 6D because for 'reach'-obsessed/necessitated realms of photography, the 7D2 isn't an option for them -- it is the next camera they must buy, and that's that. Canon can take whatever they want from these folks.

- A

 

[NancyP]

"Tourist Landscape Photographer" reporting for duty! Nothing wrong with a non-action simple full frame camera - 6D is perfectly fine for landscape and general photographers in the Canon camp. One can argue that the landscape photographers should consider Sony A7r (or whatever Sony next produces in a high-res body) with adapters, rather than the few-hundred-dollars-less 6D body. PJ, action, event photographers need something else. Focal-length-limited action high-end shooters need the 7D2, non-FL-limited action high-end shooters (events, weddings, etc) need the 1DX or 5D3.

 

[tcmatthews]

"Tourist Landscape Photographer" reporting for duty! Nothing wrong with a non-action simple full frame camera - 6D is perfectly fine for landscape and general photographers in the Canon camp. One can argue that the landscape photographers should consider Sony A7r (or whatever Sony next produces in a high-res body) with adapters, rather than the few-hundred-dollars-less 6D body. PJ, action, event photographers need something else. Focal-length-limited action high-end shooters need the 7D2, non-FL-limited action high-end shooters (events, weddings, etc) need the 1DX or 5D3.

I thought about buying the A7r but find the lack of an electronic first curtain is a deal breaker. The A7r has to shut the shutter twice to take a picture. This can cause visible camera shake at landscape shutter speeds. The A7 has first curtain electric shutter but I want the higher MP. So I bough a 6D. I was not interested in the current Sony EF lenses. I though it would be strange to spend that money on a camera then manual focus Canon and legacy glass all the time.

I will buy the A7r if they add electronic first curtain shutter or a successor if it has electronic first curtain shutter.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

DXO's site is EXCESSIVELY slow for me these days...it takes forever for each page to load, and then, when they do, you have to wait longer for the tabs to organize properly so you can click on them.

Interesting. I was afraid it was just my system and something bad going on perhaps.

 

[Marsu42]

I have, on many occasions in this forum, predicted the 7D2 could cost more than the 6D because for 'reach'-obsessed/necessitated realms of photography, the 7D2 isn't an option for them -- it is the next camera they must buy, and that's that. Canon can take whatever they want from these folks.

+1 for that - my estimation for the 7d2 was $2000+ as the early adopters' price, only then falling like the 6d and 5d3 did. I reckon Canon do their pricing in ¥, but I also think staying below a $2k mark is a message that they've learned from their 5d3 strategy: If the latter would have been cheaper than the d800 all along, Canon would have speared themselves a loss in user confidence.

"Tourist Landscape Photographer" reporting for duty! Nothing wrong with a non-action simple full frame camera - 6D is perfectly fine for landscape and general photographers in the Canon camp.

It depends on the price, for the original amount of €€€ I felt the af system was over-crippled and a camera in this class should be all-around capable and a €3000 5d3 shouldn't be required. But now that the price has dropped I guess it's ok-ish, I'm certainly fine with my 6d unless I try to track something or it starts raining.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

I think the fact not one person has ticked the "I'm over-the-moon with the spec list. This is beyond my expectations."

Speaks volumes

I disagree - I think it says nothing at all. Considering most people on this forum are serious photo enthusiasts, it's unlikely that anyone will be totally blown away by a spec-list.

If it had said as it does plus:
4k
1080p RAW
video zoomed modes
majorly improved dynamic range
no minor things like AutoISO and basic video usability features crippled
a flip screen (also this one also gets both love and hate)

I bet with those specs there would have a lot of people checking the "blows me away box".

And for sure if it also said noticeably improved high ISO SNR (although this is incredibly tricky and I'm not sure realistic as this point, everything else I suggest above would actually be much easier to pull off IMO as this is the only item that is pushing up against the boundaries of physics).

The lack of DR for this one isn't killer, but it certainly would've been nice. And I guess they can get away with no 4k on this one, but an APS-C 4k sure could've done wonders. And it's giving potentially worrisome hints for the 5D4. if the new AF is all it's cracked up to be it should carry out it's main tasks well.

 

[Loswr]

And it'd better be, this is a hilarious amount of money for a crop camera that will be outgunned iq-wise by every cheaper ff out there.

Well, we don't know the price yet. But the rumor is $1799. Which cheaper FF models are out there? Looking at B&H, I see the Sony a7. Were you referring to older, used models...or film cameras? Or am I missing some? Yes, there are discounts and gray market options for less money...and those will come along for the 7DII as well.

 

[Loswr]

The lack of DR for this one isn't killer...

Which Canon cameras have been 'killed' by a lack of DR??

 

[Marsu42]

Well, we don't know the price yet. But the rumor is $1799.

Ok, I didn't get that, so my $2k estimate can still be true

Which cheaper FF models are out there? Looking at B&H, I see the Sony a7. Were you referring to older, used models...or film cameras?

d600 is well below, d610 & 6d seem to be about the same announced 7d2 price which most likely won't be discounted for some month to come. If the pricing is accurate, I guess Canon wanted to avoid a too intense crop vs ff discussion because their crop would show their weakness.

As I always point out, I really like my 18mp 60d. But I've come to realize that for shooting movement with long focal lengths you need very high shutter speeds and arrive in high iso regions in no time. Unless you're shooting the proverbial siting ducks at low shutter & IS, let's hope the 7d2 sensor really isn't the same as in the 70d.

 

[Richard8971]

The point was, that you can push a crop camera with the much maligned 18Mp sensor to the limits of the camera and still get a decent picture.

I have never put anyone down because of their gear or bragged about mine being better.

No, no, no... I'm very sorry Don, I wasn't meaning YOU personally have put someone down... I just meant it as a general statement. I have met a few so called "professionals" who feel that unless you own the most expensive camera gear you are nothing to them and they treat you like crap.

I honestly wasn't talking about you... I hope you accept my apology.

D

 

[Loswr]

Which cheaper FF models are out there? Looking at B&H, I see the Sony a7. Were you referring to older, used models...or film cameras?

d600 is well below, d610 & 6d seem to be about the same announced 7d2 price which most likely won't be discounted for some month to come. If the pricing is accurate, I guess Canon wanted to avoid a too intense crop vs ff discussion because their crop would show their weakness.

I was considering current models as competition. B&H doesn't seem to list the D600 anymore. The 6D and D600 list for $1900 now. But the 7DII is better spec'd than those entry level FF cameras in pretty much every way other than the sensor.

As I always point out, I really like my 18mp 60d. But I've come to realize that for shooting movement with long focal lengths you need very high shutter speeds and arrive in high iso regions in no time. Unless you're shooting the proverbial siting ducks at low shutter & IS, let's hope the 7d2 sensor really isn't the same as in the 70d.

That's one of the big reasons I moved to the 1D X, and stopped using my 7D for birds. But to get an action-oriented body (good tracking AF, decent frame rate) with a FF sensor, that works with Canon's lenses means a 5DIII or better, which isn't cheap.

 

[ahsanford]

The lack of DR for this one isn't killer...

Which Canon cameras have been 'killed' by a lack of DR??

Didn't you hear, Neuro? Every Canon landscape photographer on the planet -- utterly moved by the kind, impartial souls at DXO -- sold their gear to buy a D800, a 14-24 F/2.8, and a comfortable pair of shoes to walk the earth and capture things at ISO 100.

- A

 

[emko]

if what people are saying about the DR it makes me feel disappointed i was hoping for something from Canon that would show that the next 5D would push the DR. If only Sony didn't have the sensor i wouldn't be thinking about this and wanting to buy a D800.

 

[mkabi]

It is good to see they went full hog (most likely, granted the 7D had a lot of AF points, but none of them actually worked as well as any 1 series point, but I trust they went full 1 series quality this time) with the AF. It should be a total beast for reach/action (when not DR limited).

But I have a bad feeling it's just gonna be a slightly tweaked 70D sensor at best.

And 1080p? This cam is supposed to be good for 3-5 years. Soon they will be the only manufacturer without a high-reach 4k cam. A bit ironic that the day SanDisc goes on about the 4k revolution and introducing new 4k optimized cards, Canon comes out with 1080p again.

I kinda fear that JapaneseCanonFanGirlEmployees rumor that Canon has decided people are too locked in and since sales are not yet going horribly, that they can simply get away with knowingly releasing bodies behind other maker's specs.

Panny has 4k out already, rumor is that Nikon may introduce 4k next week. All the other makers have sensors that provide much better DR at low ISO.

Nothing in this cam seems likely to not have been able to have been released 2 years ago other than the new AF (which could've been 5D3/1DX AF 2 years ago). Unless they really did soup up the DPAF AF and it really is so fast that it can assist the phase AF and make the phase AF never miss anymore. That certainly would be something and quite a revolution.

For sensors and video I fear they have simply given up trying for the first case and have decided they'd rather let someone else steal sales away rather than dare cannibalize their own video products at the higher end. That all seems rather BlackBerry and Atari of them. Although I, perhaps foolishly now, still hold out hope that the 5D4 next year will have some updated sensor tech. It is just a bit of a shame to see them cripple out things like 4k video and so on and it leaves on worried that even if the 5D4 delivers 4k it will be crippled a bit and that no 1080p RAW will be allowed either. Canon just seems to a follower for the most part, if even. At least for their bodies.

Lets hope this is true, competition is good for the consumer...
I'm hoping for a 7DC announcement at NAB 2015, and/or further price reduction of the 1DC.