More Confirmation EOS C300 Mark II Will be 4K

[Canon Rumors]

<p>We’re told again that the upcoming Canon EOS C300 Mark II will be 4K along with a host of other upgrades. You can expect the C300 Mark II to be a bigger update than the EOS C100 Mark II was to its predecessor. We’re also told it’s going to be priced very aggressively, to better compete with Sony’s FS7 which is $7999 USD.</p>
<p>Expect the Canon EOS C300 Mark II to be announced before NAB 2015 in April.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>

 

[PureClassA]

If that thing comes in around the fS7 .... I'll gladly proclaim now being 4 for 4 on price guessing with new canon products ;-)

The C100 needs to go away in its current form. A $5000 1080 camera is a lame duck. People buying into professional cinema cameras are looking more for 4k now to future proof at least and for editing timeline consistency.

This will be a great move for Canon if it comes to fruition. On the other hand if the C100 goes away and the C300 drops to $8k, that may not bode well for the 1DX2 having 4k, but I'm still of the belief that it will and the variance between the two models will be a richer codec (perhaps RAW output) in the C300 along with a better monitor and superior audio preamps (something Canon DSLRs are NOT known for) along with a wider array of frame rates (hopefully 180FPS if they want to compete with the FS7)

 

[bsbeamer]

Offering 4K is a great start, but hope that they aren't going to handcuff FS7 style features just to bring the price down and then have a C500 with everything at a $5k+ premium. That's more the typical Canon business model...

 

[enottingham]

As much as I love and use Canon products, they always seem to be in catch-up mode with the other manufacturers. They need to be making quantum leaps instead.

 

[tcg films]

I'd be surprised if the C300 Mark II was even close to $8000. $12,000 - $14,000 is my guess.

 

[kk5hy]

I'm sure it will still be 8 bit.
Canon seems to love antiques.

But if they have 4k internal recording, 10 bit 4.2.2 then it will be a winner.

 

[PureClassA]

I'd be surprised if the C300 Mark II was even close to $8000. $12,000 - $14,000 is my guess.

The C100 just got a refresh, so I dont see a major replacement anytime soon. The C300 is almost nonviable nowadays at it's price with 1080p. I'm not convinced even with 4k it's viable at that same price. Everything is moving sub 10k for "entry level" cinema grade cameras. C500 will still be 20ish where the Sony F55 is. They really need a $8-9k camera with 4k. With an FS7 you need a $500 adapter to use EF glass (and a lot of them do because Sony doesn't make what they want yet) and other parts like Sony's separate $2k box to upgrade to better codec like ProRes and Raw output. You're at $10500 right there. If Canon can produce a C300 MkII for $9-10k even, it's a huge win especially if they allow 10-12bit RAW C-Log without a separate box and obviously accepts all the EF glass including the Cinema line. Plus, the C300 is much more compact by itself and lighter, making it a more desirable rig everything else being equal.

 

[bgoyette]

As an owner of the C300, If I had to guess, I think that canon will try to compete with the FS7 with the new c300 Mark II, and it will do that by sticking with the same sensor, bayering it out at 4k and by dropping the price into the 8-9k range. Will we see XAVC or some derivitave? probably. Will we see 10 bit. Probably. Will we see increased DR...I doubt it. I think they'll stick with the same chip, essentially collapse the C500 into the c300 range and probably clean the Fs7's clock in the process. (c300 is still the most popular doc camera out there, and with the EF lens range, canon has a huge advantage over sony in this space.)

I think the rumor of an new Alexa competitor is dead-on though. The C500 has been a dog in terms of sales, as it's DR fell short of almost all of it's competitors. I'm guessing the C300 drops in price, and the replacement for the C500 (probably a new # or name) debuts with a new chip, with alexa like DR and highlight roll off, at a substantial increase in price --think f55/red.

I personally would love to see a fixed zoom lens C series camera. small form factor, motorized zoom, Dual-pixel AF -- something that brings back the simplicity of the GL and XA cameras with a large sensor....something you can put a less experienced operator on and they can handle. I'd buy two.

 

[Etienne]

As an owner of the C300, If I had to guess, I think that canon will try to compete with the FS7 with the new c300 Mark II, and it will do that by sticking with the same sensor, bayering it out at 4k and by dropping the price into the 8-9k range. Will we see XAVC or some derivitave? probably. Will we see 10 bit. Probably. Will we see increased DR...I doubt it. I think they'll stick with the same chip, essentially collapse the C500 into the c300 range and probably clean the Fs7's clock in the process. (c300 is still the most popular doc camera out there, and with the EF lens range, canon has a huge advantage over sony in this space.)

I think the rumor of an new Alexa competitor is dead-on though. The C500 has been a dog in terms of sales, as it's DR fell short of almost all of it's competitors. I'm guessing the C300 drops in price, and the replacement for the C500 (probably a new # or name) debuts with a new chip, with alexa like DR and highlight roll off, at a substantial increase in price --think f55/red.

I personally would love to see a fixed zoom lens C series camera. small form factor, motorized zoom, Dual-pixel AF -- something that brings back the simplicity of the GL and XA cameras with a large sensor....something you can put a less experienced operator on and they can handle. I'd buy two.

I love everything you say here, but I wish they could put that C300 you describe in a C100 size body, I'd be sold at $9,000.

 

[Policar]

...
I think the rumor of an new Alexa competitor is dead-on though. The C500 has been a dog in terms of sales, as it's DR fell short of almost all of it's competitors. I'm guessing the C300 drops in price, and the replacement for the C500 (probably a new # or name) debuts with a new chip, with alexa like DR and highlight roll off, at a substantial increase in price --think f55/red.
...

Sorry, you're wrong here.

As countless other threads on canonrumors have decided, the only people that need lots of DR and landscape photographers but they can use HDR methods ,etc, to make up for that.

Clearly the people who choose Alexa over Canon because of DR need some re-education from the experts in these forums.

Otherwise, this issue pretty much confirms that Canon has (or had) a DR problem with their (current?) previous sensor design.

Not sure where you're being sarcastic. Video benefits from extra DR more than stills benefit from it. The C300's 12 stops is "enough" for most situations (it took until Vision 2, if not Vision 3, for film to really surpass 12 stops) and the noise and highlight roll-of aren't bad (also not great). But the Alexa's excellent roll-off is a real benefit.

For stills you can use strobes or wait on light for landscapes. I strongly believe dynamic range matters more for "cinema" than it does for published stills.

And why not? For the longest time we had Velvia (5 stops) on one hand and color negative (8-9 stops) on the other.

 

[Policar]

...
I think the rumor of an new Alexa competitor is dead-on though. The C500 has been a dog in terms of sales, as it's DR fell short of almost all of it's competitors. I'm guessing the C300 drops in price, and the replacement for the C500 (probably a new # or name) debuts with a new chip, with alexa like DR and highlight roll off, at a substantial increase in price --think f55/red.
...

Sorry, you're wrong here.

As countless other threads on canonrumors have decided, the only people that need lots of DR and landscape photographers but they can use HDR methods ,etc, to make up for that.

Clearly the people who choose Alexa over Canon because of DR need some re-education from the experts in these forums.

Otherwise, this issue pretty much confirms that Canon has (or had) a DR problem with their (current?) previous sensor design.

Not sure where you're being sarcastic.
...

How dare you accuse me of being sarcastic! There are many people that post on CR that are deadly serious about this. Just try and argue anywhere that Canon's lack of DR is a real problem and see what kind of treatment you g

Obviously it's a problem for some people and not for others. This whole argument is subjective so I don't even understand how one person can argue one way and the other the next when ultimately they're just addressing their own needs.

For me, DR isn't that important for stills. For video, it is, but 12 stops is so much better than the hvx/hdvx (6-8 stop) era that I'm just ecstatic with what I've got.

The C300 is a great camera. I prefer it over the F5, but not the Alexa. I'm hoping for a good upgrade, but cognizant that if there isn't one, there's always the FS7 or the Amira. I think Canon knows that, too.

 

[arthur]

14bit raw + 4:4:4 / 6k /240 fps .... Can you outperform my expectations canon ?!!

 

[bgoyette]

14bit raw + 4:4:4 / 6k /240 fps .... Can you outperform my expectations canon ?!!

You don't ask for much

We'll never see anything like this in the "mid-level" Cinema EOS. Nor should we. The workflow and storage are simply beyond what the critical mass of C300 owners need or want. The C300 and Scarlet launched the same day, I travelled to both launches and picked the C300 for one basic fact, it got me into a real cinema camera with a workflow simplicity (think compact flash cards, tiny long lasting batteries and dslr-like handling) that was familiar to me as a full time photographer/nascent video producer. Canon doesn't get enough credit for the sweet spot they hit with the C300, except in the sales and rental departments, where this camera has been extremely successful. This Canon Feng Shui is part of the company's DNA, and it takes precedence over signature advanced technologies like 4k and hi-frame rate within the company's planning.

Where this camera could improve is in its highlight handling. It would also be nice to see a more robust codec and bit depth to handle the log gammas. A more robust version of dual-pixel Af is probably in the cards. I doubt we'll see much improvement on the DR issue, but it's possible we could see a new version of c-log that ramps the highlights a little better than it currently does... as far as I'm concerned this is the c300's achilles heel.

These things you ask for are going to require more serious hardware and price (whatever replaces the C500). And Canon won't have success at that higher level, unless they address the dynamic range issues that are the primary differentiator between their current top camera and everybody else in that price range. They also need to address their RAW workflow: it's time they stopped relying on third parties for this part of the chain.

I'm quite sure that they will...if not this spring, then by late this year.

 

[tjc320]

Just try and argue anywhere that Canon's lack of DR is a real problem and see what kind of treatment you get

Canon's dynamic range is really a negative compared to other cameras. Especially the Alexa. You can't even put the two cameras in the same league when you compare the highlights of the image.

As a video guy, dynamic range is probably the second or third thing that matters to me. I would prefer a camera with a beautiful dynamic image over 4k resolution any day. The Alexa is preferred in almost any production if they have the budget for it. I've never seen the C500 as a competitor but maybe future models will get a little closer.

All I see is people complaining about the current Canon line-up and how they aren't competitive but whenever I see cameras out on the field all I see is Canon. They have the best cameras available for fast paced workflows and quickly developing content. Having a 4K camera actually slows down the workflow so it's not as desired as people would think. I mean, I would REALLY prefer to have the 4K option but that doesn't mean it's the best option. Yes, RED and Alexa might be more prevalent for large productions but when it comes to selling cameras the broadcasting and web content market is where the money is at.

I have high hopes that the C300MII will be able to compete with the FS7. I'm willing to wait on pulling the trigger on the FS7 to see what the C3MII will be. However, I really don't see it being below $10K or having anything past 60FPS. They will likely put keep it at the same price as the current C300 and do what they did with the C100 when they announced its replacement.

 

[psolberg]

I'm sorry but what else would it be? 8K? if you're not 4K you basically don't exist.

 

[mps]

As much as I love and use Canon products, they always seem to be in catch-up mode with the other manufacturers. They need to be making quantum leaps instead.

a quantum leap is the smallest possible move ANYTHING can make - and thats exactly what canon is doing

4k 422 10bit is the absolute minimum to justify a pricetag around 10k.... if they want to be ahead of the competition, 444(or raw) and higher framerates (240-ish, more is always welcome) is an absolute must.. otherwise... canon cant always rely on the one "i already have so many ef lenses, i dont wanna switch" argument.. this1 starts getting old...