More EOS 7D Replacement Buzz Going Around [CR2]

[preppyak]

I think you are right but the canon 18-200 desperately needs an update though,
the nikkors vr1 and vr2 leave it for dead

No doubt it needs an update, but, I wonder if they'd kit that with the new 7D2. I know they kitted the 18-200 with the 50D, but was it ever with the 7D?

I cant imagine they'd update the 28-135 to kit with this; that'd be an odd choice. So maybe the 17-85 or 15-85 would get an STM update?

 

[Deleted member 7828]

I take it all ranges will get an "STM" lens. They've got normal (18-55, 18-135), telephoto (55-250), and now wide-angle (10-18). Only things left are super zoom (18-200 or 18-300) and macro. Canon's 18-200 is quite old and lacks USM so I all but expect an STM update of that lens at some point. I think this would be a good time to do so.

Just to throw this out there... If Dual pixel tech is ever going to hit full frame cameras like the 5d4 or 6d2 or 4d then FF will need a compatable STM lens too.

Good point. We already have the 40, but a slow zoom is the typical deployment of such technology. These EF-S zooms so far been optically very good, and very cheap. Does anyone see an EF 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS STM on the horizon? Nikon recently refreshed their budget full frame variable aperture zoom.

This is entirely ignorance on my part as the only STM I own is the pancake, so I'll ask:

1) Do any still shooters who are shooting moving subjects use STM glass at all?

2) Has STM focusing speed improved to catch up with USM speed?

3) Does STM work well in Servo for moving subjects?

Please educate me, as I think my first go at STM with the pancake was not impressive on those three fronts. That lens is a marvel, but only for static shots in my book.

Maybe more recent STM glass is better?

- A

I have used the 55-250 STM as a test for concerts and animal shooting. I haven't measured it, but to me the STM seems to work just fine, although it feels a tad slower (?) than USM (still significantly quicker than non-USM though). The one thing to keep in mind is that the focus on these STM lenses is electronic, so you can't "full-time manual focus" without power to the camera.

 

[HBaekked]

Most shops in Norway are now out of stock and unable do deliver the EOS 7D.

 

[rs]

This is entirely ignorance on my part as the only STM I own is the pancake, so I'll ask:

1) Do any still shooters who are shooting moving subjects use STM glass at all?

2) Has STM focusing speed improved to catch up with USM speed?

3) Does STM work well in Servo for moving subjects?

Please educate me, as I think my first go at STM with the pancake was not impressive on those three fronts. That lens is a marvel, but only for static shots in my book.

Maybe more recent STM glass is better?

- A

Yeah, the 40 is very impressive bar the focus speed.

If you take STM as a replacement for the buzzy micro motor AF on cheap lenses, it's a nice improvement (although I can only guess about speed as I've never owned one of those lenses). It also doubles up as a nice damped AF system for video, which is why it may get introduced in replacements for lower end USM lenses.

I see no reason why the attributes of STM (slow, progressive AF suitable for natural looking pull focus on video) and those of USM (snappy, near instant AF for stills) can't be combined into one lens. In the meantime, I'd very much like high end photographers lenses to carry on with the current USM tech.

 

[ahsanford]

I have used the 55-250 STM as a test for concerts and animal shooting. I haven't measured it, but to me the STM seems to work just fine, although it feels a tad slower (?) than USM (still significantly quicker than non-USM though). The one thing to keep in mind is that the focus on these STM lenses is electronic, so you can't "full-time manual focus" without power to the camera.

I don't want to be a lens snob, but as a still shooter with a bag full of USM glass, I only see STM as an improvement over the non-USM lenses I left behind years ago. I have yet to hear of a single thing it does better than USM for stills.

So STM, for me, says 'for video', and as such, won't be getting any of my money.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Yeah, the 40 is very impressive bar the focus speed.

If you take STM as a replacement for the buzzy micro motor AF on cheap lenses, it's a nice improvement (although I can only guess about speed as I've never owned one of those lenses). It also doubles up as a nice damped AF system for video, which is why it may get introduced in replacements for lower end USM lenses.

I see no reason why the attributes of STM (slow, progressive AF suitable for natural looking pull focus on video) and those of USM (snappy, near instant AF for stills) can't be combined into one lens. In the meantime, I'd very much like high end photographers lenses to carry on with the current USM tech.

Any chance the AF drive could be USM or STM selectable by a switch? Lightning quick for stills and smooth for video?

Or is that such a foundational lens design consideration that you can't do both?

- A

 

[Deleted member 7828]

I have used the 55-250 STM as a test for concerts and animal shooting. I haven't measured it, but to me the STM seems to work just fine, although it feels a tad slower (?) than USM (still significantly quicker than non-USM though). The one thing to keep in mind is that the focus on these STM lenses is electronic, so you can't "full-time manual focus" without power to the camera.

I don't want to be a lens snob, but as a still shooter with a bag full of USM glass, I only see STM as an improvement over the non-USM lenses I left behind years ago. I have yet to hear of a single thing it does better than USM for stills.

So STM, for me, says 'for video', and as such, won't be getting any of my money.

- A

As a stills shooter I prefer USM. But as you said, STM is a nice improvement over the stiff, noisy AF motor it replaces. So it's good when viewed in that respect, but it is no replacement for USM (and probably why we haven't seen an "L" lens with STM at this point).

But, even with that said, I think the only times you'll notice a difference are when 1) you are tracking a moving subject in Servo (less snappy although still quick enough in most situations) and 2) when manual focusing, unless you have an electronic USM lens like the 85 1.2.

I wouldn't recommend any of the STM lenses for serious (stills) work but for everyday/travel use, I gotta say they're quite nice...pleasantly surprised. Good if you don't want to risk more expensive stuff on a trip, etc.

 

[ScottyP]

An STM lens. Really. That's pretty weak for what is presumably a best-in-class APS-C rig in the $2k neighborhood. STM is fine for video, and it's also nice upgrade over the squeaky slow AF motors of the older entry level Rebel kit glass, but 7D2 still shooters would want the speed of USM, right?

Are they legitimately going after pro wildlife/sports guys with this rig or just enthusiasts who want a high burst rate? Surely the days of kitting this with a relatively average lens are over, aren't they? (I recognize that the people drooling over a 7D2 likely already have a lot of glass, but the same could be said at the launch of the 5D3 and that had a decent lens kit option...)

Just riffing here: any chance Canon kits this with a really solid L lens? I recognize that a 24-something zoom lens will be too long on the wide end for a standard zoom. So...

Kit it with a 16-35 F/4L IS?

Kit it with a first-ever L lens in an EF-S mount? An EF-S 15-50 F/4L IS? An L-quality update to the 17-55 F/2.8 IS?

Kit it with the Sigma 18-35 F/1.8? ;D

- A

Kit it with the 17-55. Also kit out a pair of primes like the 35 f/2 and the 135 f/2 L as a cool surprise option. That would also make some nice white box discounts available on those primes from set-breakers.

 

[Don Haines]

An STM lens. Really. That's pretty weak for what is presumably a best-in-class APS-C rig in the $2k neighborhood. STM is fine for video, and it's also nice upgrade over the squeaky slow AF motors of the older entry level Rebel kit glass, but 7D2 still shooters would want the speed of USM, right?

Are they legitimately going after pro wildlife/sports guys with this rig or just enthusiasts who want a high burst rate? Surely the days of kitting this with a relatively average lens are over, aren't they? (I recognize that the people drooling over a 7D2 likely already have a lot of glass, but the same could be said at the launch of the 5D3 and that had a decent lens kit option...)

Just riffing here: any chance Canon kits this with a really solid L lens? I recognize that a 24-something zoom lens will be too long on the wide end for a standard zoom. So...

Kit it with a 16-35 F/4L IS?

Kit it with a first-ever L lens in an EF-S mount? An EF-S 15-50 F/4L IS? An L-quality update to the 17-55 F/2.8 IS?

Kit it with the Sigma 18-35 F/1.8? ;D

- A

Kit it with the 17-55. Also kit out a pair of primes like the 35 f/2 and the 135 f/2 L as a cool surprise option. That would also make some nice white box discounts available on those primes from set-breakers.

Now that's a great combo!

 

[eml58]

I think this is not a relevant post. Why would CR post this? It is not saying anything new.

But I guess Canon is keeping its secrets very well guarded.

Yeah, sort of like a regurgitated regurgitated rumour, like the "Great White Hope" in Pro Boxing, crew of the Mary Celeste, things are probably slow at CR, so let's start anoooooooother thread on the fabled 7DMK II.

Although I'm unlikely to buy it should it ever make it to Market, I'de realllllly like to see it done & dusted & all those that want one, get one, and start Posting in a "Images from the 7DMK II" thread, instead of endless threads re comments on "what about" "what if" "when ?" "why ???????"

And then be Happy !!

 

[unfocused]

I really believe Canon had originally intended to kit the 7D with the 15-85. Both released at the same time and the 15-85 is pretty much the EF-S equivalent of the 24-105.

But there was so much wailing and whining when the 7D price was announced (go back and see some of the comments from 40D owners at the time, who were incredibly bitter about the pricing), I think they realized they couldn't package the two together and have a competitively priced kit.

If they don't introduce a new kit lens, I can see the 15-85 being kitted with the 7DII. Could also use the 17-55 since they cut the price of that lens.

 

[quiquae]

Just to throw this out there... If Dual pixel tech is ever going to hit full frame cameras like the 5d4 or 6d2 or 4d then FF will need a compatable STM lens too.

Good point. We already have the 40, but a slow zoom is the typical deployment of such technology. These EF-S zooms so far been optically very good, and very cheap. Does anyone see an EF 28-135/3.5-5.6 IS STM on the horizon? Nikon recently refreshed their budget full frame variable aperture zoom.

This is entirely ignorance on my part as the only STM I own is the pancake, so I'll ask:

1) Do any still shooters who are shooting moving subjects use STM glass at all?

2) Has STM focusing speed improved to catch up with USM speed?

3) Does STM work well in Servo for moving subjects?

Please educate me, as I think my first go at STM with the pancake was not impressive on those three fronts. That lens is a marvel, but only for static shots in my book.

Maybe more recent STM glass is better?

- A

The STM mechanism in the 40mm pancake is a gear type, different from the lead screw type that is used in all the other STM zooms. Gear type is more compact, but slower than the lead screw type. I have both the 40mm and 18-135mm STM, and the 18-135mm STM is quite fast and accurate, nothing like the 40mm.

 

[Richard8971]

At this late point in the game, I am not going to get excited about any 7D replacement until I can actually buy one. Any replacement has been overdue for a couple of years now and several cameras are just as good as if not better than the current 7D, like the 70D or Nikon D7100.

Who knows? I wouldn't be surprised if they just dropped the XD line in favor of the 70D and just concentrated on more cinema cameras. I almost wonder if Canon realizes that some of us actually LIKE taking still photos and could care less if our DSLR can do 4K video?

Besides, I already own a 7D and paid (at the time) almost $1550 for it. I am not just going to take a loss on my 7D (by selling it for, what 600 bucks) just to spend an estimated 2 grand for an "upgrade". I cannot imagine ANY new camera being 2 grand better (in a crop sensor body anyway) than my current 7D.

My camera is fast, responsive and I am more than happy with the image quality, even at higher ISO speeds.

Guess we will just have to wait and see until August.

I talked to a friend of mine who has a lot of Canon contacts and I inquired about the lack of information regarding any kind of replacement body at this point. He only said that Canon was getting better at keeping information contained regarding new cameras. Pft... we had a LOT MORE information about the 5D3 before it's announcement. The true lack of any REAL information about a replacement body makes me skeptical.

May not happen guys... I hope it does, but may not...

D

 

[tiger82]

It looks like the anticipation has dropped the price of the 1D Mark IV by at least 10%

 

[sanj]

I think this is not a relevant post. Why would CR post this? It is not saying anything new.

But I guess Canon is keeping its secrets very well guarded.

Yeah, sort of like a regurgitated regurgitated rumour, like the "Great White Hope" in Pro Boxing, crew of the Mary Celeste, things are probably slow at CR, so let's start anoooooooother thread on the fabled 7DMK II.

Although I'm unlikely to buy it should it ever make it to Market, I'de realllllly like to see it done & dusted & all those that want one, get one, and start Posting in a "Images from the 7DMK II" thread, instead of endless threads re comments on "what about" "what if" "when ?" "why ???????"

And then be Happy !!

But not so slow to to post this. Lately there as been the 16-35 f4 buzz, Lots of Sigma analysis, D800 and high MP debates. Hahahaah

 

[Richard8971]

It looks like the anticipation has dropped the price of the 1D Mark IV by at least 10%

You know, that's not such a bad thing. I have really been looking at that camera as a replacement to my 7D.

D

 

[that1guyy]

Here is my guess/wishlist

price: $2000 body only
10fps with about a 40-50 raw frame buffer
5d3 AF system
full weather sealing
wifi
dual pixel AF system from 70D
new sensor different from 70D (one stop better noise performance and one stop better DR)
possibly 4k video and 1080p/60p? One can hope.

I really do think this will get a newer sensor than the 70D (which was just a modified version of the old sensor) because the 7D is very important for Canon and the product cycle is very long so a new sensor ensures the camera will remain competitive 3-4 years from now. The 80D or whatever its called will get the 7D's sensor and then the Rebels and others will get them after.

Anyone agree?

 

[TrabimanUK]

Here is my guess/wishlist

price: $2000 body only
10fps with about a 40-50 raw frame buffer
5d3 AF system
full weather sealing
wifi
dual pixel AF system from 70D
new sensor different from 70D (one stop better noise performance and one stop better DR)
possibly 4k video and 1080p/60p? One can hope.

Anyone agree?

Long:

• Price - probably not too far off (probably >£1700 in the UK)
  fps - probably on the nail
  raw buffer - unlikely, probably closer to 30-35 as the 1D only has 38
  5DII AF - quite likely, cant's see why not as it is proven technolgy
  weather sealing - probably
  wifi - definitely, as cheap and commonly occurring now
  70D DPAF - probably a similar solution but not same system due to (hopefully) new sensor
  New sensor - absolutley needed, as 7D was revolutionary, so the 7D2 should be
  ISO and DR - probably
  4K - could be, as that wolud be revolutionary for the video people out there

Short:
Yes

 

[wickidwombat]

I wasn't interested in a 7d mk2 until I got the tamron 150-600 now I'm very interested specifically for use with that lens
But it has to have the 5d3 af I can see it now 70-200 on 5dmk3 and 150-600 on 7d2 with 11-22 on eos m at the ready for interesting wide stuff

 

[rs]

Here is my guess/wishlist

price: $2000 body only
10fps with about a 40-50 raw frame buffer
5d3 AF system
full weather sealing
wifi
dual pixel AF system from 70D
new sensor different from 70D (one stop better noise performance and one stop better DR)
possibly 4k video and 1080p/60p? One can hope.

Anyone agree?

Long:

• Price - probably not too far off (probably >£1700 in the UK)
  fps - probably on the nail
  raw buffer - unlikely, probably closer to 30-35 as the 1D only has 38
  5DII AF - quite likely, cant's see why not as it is proven technolgy
  weather sealing - probably
  wifi - definitely, as cheap and commonly occurring now
  70D DPAF - probably a similar solution but not same system due to (hopefully) new sensor
  New sensor - absolutley needed, as 7D was revolutionary, so the 7D2 should be
  ISO and DR - probably
  4K - could be, as that wolud be revolutionary for the video people out there

Short:
Yes

Any AF chip designed for a FF camera won't work with a 1.6x mirror assembly - there simply isn't enough coverage for such a chip. Unless they make a 1.6x sensor body use a 1.0x mirror, with all the additional cost, speed implications and lack of compatibility with EF-S lenses that brings. No reason why a scaled down version can't be made for APS-C though.

Secondly, a whole stop of S/N ratio improvement is highly unlikely, unless we're talking about out of the camera jpegs after being cooked by an even more heavy handed DIGIC dose of NR? As far as I know, modern sensors are closing in on the theoretically optimum QE, so we no longer have the headroom to make such massive gains (the 70D would have to be below 50% QE with the 7D II close to perfect to get a doubling on that metric).

And wifi as yet hasn't been introduced on any all magnesium bodied DSLR's yet. No reason why the antenna can't be located behind one of the plastic flaps (ports, battery, flash, screen etc), but this is new ground, so no reason to assume wifi is a given.

Other than that, yes, the wish list looks nice