More on the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV in 2016 [CR2]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
- Start date
jebrady03 said:
I have reason to believe that this is not how pricing is done; but that a company looks at the local market and the price in the respective currency and never without absolute need gives away a currency improvement to the market.
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Canon knows it needs to be competitive and it knows Sony has deeper pockets so whilst Sony is still building its system particularly glass it has time but not forever. Sony launched new G Master lenses the reviews on these have been highly favourable and if it keeps on that path the one thing that held them back will be gone. Yes the R series has some weaknesses particularly battery life but again dont count on Sony not making improvements they are certainly not giving up and will eventually overhall Nikon.
Canon needs the 5D MKIV to be the type of camera the 5D MKII was when it was launched Jirsta is right the 5D MKIII as good as it is was not groundbreaking and the competition are much closer than they ever were. Were invested in Canon but our children (mine are 28 & 25) are not and my daughter has bought into Sony and is perfectly happy and I know at younger than her age I bought into Canon and have never changed.
Canon needs the 5D MKIV to be the type of camera the 5D MKII was when it was launched Jirsta is right the 5D MKIII as good as it is was not groundbreaking and the competition are much closer than they ever were. Were invested in Canon but our children (mine are 28 & 25) are not and my daughter has bought into Sony and is perfectly happy and I know at younger than her age I bought into Canon and have never changed.
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romanr74 said:
You're absolutely right. They'd never give away a currency improvement, unless forced to. Hence my post.
I'm hoping that if enough people know about it, then social media pressure may have a beneficial effect for the consumer. Knowledge is (purchasing) power, right?I'm not proclaiming to be an authority on this matter, but here's my take anyway... Canon, Inc is based out of Japan. Canon USA is a wholly owned subsidiary meaning that they operate independently, but they don't report back to shareholders, they report back to Canon, Inc. So, all income arriving at Canon USA is truly Canon, Inc's income. So it's not unrealistic to think about sales prices in JPY as that is the base currency Canon USA is working off of. And we see references to exchange rates all the time in the Canon Financial Reports. "Favorable exchange rates", and such, saving them from a declining camera market and improving profits (or mitigating losses).
Personally, I think it's asinine to be completely okay with a 35-40% price hike in effective purchasing power loss from one model to the next over the course of 4 years, just because the price in USD may be the same. We're hit with price hikes when the currency exchange isn't favorable (just ask our Canadian friends about that), so why should we not expect the reverse to be true? I mean, the price of the 5D Mark III has dropped $1000 since launch (28.57% price drop). MUCH of that is the result of currency fluctuation. IMO, only some of it is due to the fact that the camera has been out for 4 years and is dated technology. For example, the 5D Mark III was $3800 in Canada upon release. Currently the price is $3400. Why only a $400 price drop (10.52% price drop) for Canadian customers after 4 years while US customers have a $1000 difference? EXCHANGE RATES!
So again, I state... DO NOT be okay with an introductory price (in USD) of $3500. Personally, I think $2900 is reasonable. It factors in a lower price for exchange rates, but also an increase in effective USD price due to the addition of new technology. (Remember, an equivalent JPY price today would be $2597 so $2900 represents an increase of more than 10% over the cost of the 5D Mark III) My guess is it'll be closer to $3000-3100 though, so that Canon USA can capitalize on the early adopters and have a higher, stable MSRP against which, they can offer future discounts.
But hey, if all you guys who are just salivating over the opportunity to drop 35% more on a camera than you would rationally expect are loud enough, I'm sure Canon USA will listen, happily, to you.
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jebrady03 said:romanr74 said:
You're absolutely right. They'd never give away a currency improvement, unless forced to. Hence my post.
I'm not proclaiming to be an authority on this matter, but here's my take anyway... Canon, Inc is based out of Japan. Canon USA is a wholly owned subsidiary meaning that they operate independently, but they don't report back to shareholders, they report back to Canon, Inc. So, all income arriving at Canon USA is truly Canon, Inc's income. So it's not unrealistic to think about sales prices in JPY as that is the base currency Canon USA is working off of. And we see references to exchange rates all the time in the Canon Financial Reports. "Favorable exchange rates", and such, saving them from a declining camera market and improving profits (or mitigating losses).
Personally, I think it's asinine to be completely okay with a 35-40% price hike in effective purchasing power loss from one model to the next over the course of 4 years, just because the price in USD may be the same. We're hit with price hikes when the currency exchange isn't favorable (just ask our Canadian friends about that), so why should we not expect the reverse to be true? I mean, the price of the 5D Mark III has dropped $1000 since launch (28.57% price drop). MUCH of that is the result of currency fluctuation. IMO, only some of it is due to the fact that the camera has been out for 4 years and is dated technology. For example, the 5D Mark III was $3800 in Canada upon release. Currently the price is $3400. Why only a $400 price drop (10.52% price drop) for Canadian customers after 4 years while US customers have a $1000 difference? EXCHANGE RATES!
So again, I state... DO NOT be okay with an introductory price (in USD) of $3500. Personally, I think $2900 is reasonable. It factors in a lower price for exchange rates, but also an increase in effective USD price due to the addition of new technology. (Remember, an equivalent JPY price today would be $2597 so $2900 represents an increase of more than 10% over the cost of the 5D Mark III) My guess is it'll be closer to $3000-3100 though, so that Canon USA can capitalize on the early adopters and have a higher, stable MSRP against which, they can offer future discounts.
But hey, if all you guys who are just salivating over the opportunity to drop 35% more on a camera than you would rationally expect are loud enough, I'm sure Canon USA will listen, happily, to you.
I think you are right. Using the 1dx II as an example the EU customers are screwed over for about $1300 compared to the US market, mainly because of the exchange rates.
But then again, if the 1Dx II is used as an example once more, it is the cheapest FF 1 series camera at launch. Maybe the 5D4 will follow that same example.
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Looks like I'm going to have to buy something " temporary" for 2016 then :-\ my 7D has served me well but at 200k clicks it needs to go and I want to go FF. I was hoping fore something around 28mpx and 8fps from the 5D4, might still get that but not this year it seems.
Been a Canon user for 35+ years (from a AE1) but I might just be tempted to park the Canon and do 2016 with a used D800e and 200-400/4 to see what the fuss is about
Been a Canon user for 35+ years (from a AE1) but I might just be tempted to park the Canon and do 2016 with a used D800e and 200-400/4 to see what the fuss is about
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jebrady03 said:romanr74 said:
You're absolutely right. They'd never give away a currency improvement, unless forced to. Hence my post.
I'm not proclaiming to be an authority on this matter, but here's my take anyway... Canon, Inc is based out of Japan. Canon USA is a wholly owned subsidiary meaning that they operate independently, but they don't report back to shareholders, they report back to Canon, Inc. So, all income arriving at Canon USA is truly Canon, Inc's income. So it's not unrealistic to think about sales prices in JPY as that is the base currency Canon USA is working off of. And we see references to exchange rates all the time in the Canon Financial Reports. "Favorable exchange rates", and such, saving them from a declining camera market and improving profits (or mitigating losses).
Personally, I think it's asinine to be completely okay with a 35-40% price hike in effective purchasing power loss from one model to the next over the course of 4 years, just because the price in USD may be the same. We're hit with price hikes when the currency exchange isn't favorable (just ask our Canadian friends about that), so why should we not expect the reverse to be true? I mean, the price of the 5D Mark III has dropped $1000 since launch (28.57% price drop). MUCH of that is the result of currency fluctuation. IMO, only some of it is due to the fact that the camera has been out for 4 years and is dated technology. For example, the 5D Mark III was $3800 in Canada upon release. Currently the price is $3400. Why only a $400 price drop (10.52% price drop) for Canadian customers after 4 years while US customers have a $1000 difference? EXCHANGE RATES!
So again, I state... DO NOT be okay with an introductory price (in USD) of $3500. Personally, I think $2900 is reasonable. It factors in a lower price for exchange rates, but also an increase in effective USD price due to the addition of new technology. (Remember, an equivalent JPY price today would be $2597 so $2900 represents an increase of more than 10% over the cost of the 5D Mark III) My guess is it'll be closer to $3000-3100 though, so that Canon USA can capitalize on the early adopters and have a higher, stable MSRP against which, they can offer future discounts.
But hey, if all you guys who are just salivating over the opportunity to drop 35% more on a camera than you would rationally expect are loud enough, I'm sure Canon USA will listen, happily, to you.
LOL
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Lots of grumbles for DR range, pricing, 4K, flip and touch screen, etc. For gripe-sakes Canon, give Cannonites what they want. Listen to your consumers. Period.
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Announcement:
5D was October.
5D II was November.
5D III was March, but most probably, not to say for sure, only because of the earthquake/tsunami.
Why complain/surprise for an October - November launch?
Price:
5D III was higher than 5D II, but feature-wise it was a giant leap ahead with respect to its predecessor. The AF module alone justified the price increase, but other features were also added/improved. The 5D to 5D II iteration was essentially a matter of sensor resolution, and video features which came at nearly zero cost. I expect the 5D IV to be cheaper (not by much) at launch than the 5D III, similarly to what happened with the 1D X to 1D X II iteration.
Features:
4K and CFast most likely.
GPS most likely, I'd say for sure.
WiFi... don't know, I doubt it. I'd welcome it, I see a lot of ways to circumvent the magnesium alloy body shielding problem without invalidating the weather proofing (detachable screw-in antenna, external non-protruding antenna surrounding the display like a thin frame, plastic antenna band(s) like the iPhone... you name it.
5D was October.
5D II was November.
5D III was March, but most probably, not to say for sure, only because of the earthquake/tsunami.
Why complain/surprise for an October - November launch?
Price:
5D III was higher than 5D II, but feature-wise it was a giant leap ahead with respect to its predecessor. The AF module alone justified the price increase, but other features were also added/improved. The 5D to 5D II iteration was essentially a matter of sensor resolution, and video features which came at nearly zero cost. I expect the 5D IV to be cheaper (not by much) at launch than the 5D III, similarly to what happened with the 1D X to 1D X II iteration.
Features:
4K and CFast most likely.
GPS most likely, I'd say for sure.
WiFi... don't know, I doubt it. I'd welcome it, I see a lot of ways to circumvent the magnesium alloy body shielding problem without invalidating the weather proofing (detachable screw-in antenna, external non-protruding antenna surrounding the display like a thin frame, plastic antenna band(s) like the iPhone... you name it.
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My problem is different and I don't want to compare Canon vs Nikon.
I have had Nikon gear earlier (the D80 and 2 lenses) which I sold out few months back to buy a FF body and pro lenses. I shoot product, weddings and studio portraits. I am open to both Canon and Nikon since I am newly investing in either system.
I was waiting and excited for 5DIV but got disappointed now cannot wait till October :\ If I want to buy Canon today, what should I go with? Or is it worth waiting till whenever 5DIV releases?
I have seen a mass opinion over the internet that Nikon bodies have more DR than Canon. How much that make real world difference? And what exactly dynamic range represent- colors range or contrast rage or something else?
I have had Nikon gear earlier (the D80 and 2 lenses) which I sold out few months back to buy a FF body and pro lenses. I shoot product, weddings and studio portraits. I am open to both Canon and Nikon since I am newly investing in either system.
I was waiting and excited for 5DIV but got disappointed now cannot wait till October :\ If I want to buy Canon today, what should I go with? Or is it worth waiting till whenever 5DIV releases?
I have seen a mass opinion over the internet that Nikon bodies have more DR than Canon. How much that make real world difference? And what exactly dynamic range represent- colors range or contrast rage or something else?
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If Sony announces an upgrade to their a7*II series this year, I think they just might take my $3,500 before Canon has an opportunity to. Let's see if Canon or Sony wants my money more.
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Inflation? Long term inflation rate is 3.22%, more recently it has been 2.25-2.5% (In the US)
3.22% 2597 2681 2767 2856 2957
2.5% 2597 2662 2728 2797 2867
2.25% 2597 2655 2715 2776 2839
Canon will set the price based on the factors they deem significant. Canon will include features based on factors they deem significant. People will buy or not based on the factors they deem significant. What are these factors? I don't know and don't care. What is the price and what are the features? We don't know.
For me I may jump on the next 5D at $3500. If things work out the way I'd like I'll be buying my dream camera system this year. Currently I'm thinking a 5D III and 7D II for bodies. If the next 5D has the image quality and good enough frame rates I may buy that instead. All depends on timing and the factors I deem significant at the time.
Now, stop reading my dumb post and live your life.
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Fwiw, an announcement at the end of summer actually suits *my personal* upgrade path. Everybody's different. But then I don't really put much stock in all these rumours of when things will happen, and wouldn't plan what I was going to do based on them. I'm looking at what cameras are available now, and which I prefer to my current one - if any - and then when I can afford them. It's a lot less stressful, by the look of things.
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Lurker said:
http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/
Not according to that website. And if you use the inflation calculator in the upper right corner of that page and type in the year 2012 and price $2597, you'll see that the cumulative rate of inflation is 3.3% for a total price of $2682.
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Ugggg... count me as one of those wedding shooters that now need to figure out new plans. October release means I won't be upgrading my mk3 until late spring of 2017. I've put a lot of clicks on that mk3 too and my 6d frustrates me mostly because the button layout is different enough that I stumble with settings. So the 6d needs to get swapped out.
Options, the 1Dx2 is nice but I can't see myself buying that, I just have 0 need for all that fps. It's a great camera for sure but for that kind of $$$$ it's gotta be a better match for what I shoot, last I checked bride's aren't sprinting down the isle. I rarely use the max fps of the 5d3 even. I keep it in silent mode 99.9% of the time. So I'm either snagging a 5ds/r, or, maybe a refurbished 5d3. 5ds is also a great camera, but those big files are a worry. So that leaves a very boring option, just getting another 5d3. If I do that then I may go used/refurbished because I just can't see spending that kind of capital on a 4 year old body.
So yeah, bad timing canon.
Options, the 1Dx2 is nice but I can't see myself buying that, I just have 0 need for all that fps. It's a great camera for sure but for that kind of $$$$ it's gotta be a better match for what I shoot, last I checked bride's aren't sprinting down the isle. I rarely use the max fps of the 5d3 even. I keep it in silent mode 99.9% of the time. So I'm either snagging a 5ds/r, or, maybe a refurbished 5d3. 5ds is also a great camera, but those big files are a worry. So that leaves a very boring option, just getting another 5d3. If I do that then I may go used/refurbished because I just can't see spending that kind of capital on a 4 year old body.
So yeah, bad timing canon.
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