New information about the upcoming Canon EOS R5C [CR3]

[Finn]

That’s not what the FX3 is… Sony got rid of the excellent EVF, but burdened the FX3 with the same sad rear display that is on the A7S3. Worst still… it’s 4:3 aspect ratio, not the expected 16:9 that a video camera should have.

I'm saying Canon should do the same but actually put on a nice screen. They really messed up with the C70. It's like they designed the camera and then forgot about the screen so just threw it on the back with a flimsy hinge. They could have at least used the C100 style hinge or came up with something new. I feel like the C70 with body refinements, better build quality, and a FF sensor would sell like hotcakes for years. A compact Canon Cinema camera with DGO and great AF and internal NDs.

Internal NDs are a stretch but I would take them, of course!

 

[DBounce]

Canon not including Clog 2 in all their cameras is so so freaking annoying. In a C-camera it would be beyond words.

The reason Canon left out CLog 2 is because the R5 only has 10.4 stops of dynamic range… which isn’t exactly great. The Sony A7S3 manages 12.4 usable stops.

I’m hoping that the R5C uses a newer sensor with better dynamic range.

 

[DBounce]

I'm saying Canon should do the same but actually put on a nice screen. They really messed up with the C70. It's like they designed the camera and then forgot about the screen so just threw it on the back with a flimsy hinge. They could have at least used the C100 style hinge or came up with something new. I feel like the C70 with body refinements, better build quality, and a FF sensor would sell like hotcakes for years. A compact Canon Cinema camera with DGO and great AF and internal NDs.

Internal NDs are a stretch but I would take them, of course!

It needs higher resolution also. At least 6K and preferably 8K.

 

[Finn]

he only way the R5C becomes remotely interesting is if they put the 8K full frame DGO sensor from the rumoured upcoming C500S, lets it shoot in CLog 2, external power port and give it a top handle connected to the muti port hot shoe that gives XLR (TA-3) and SDI.

This sounds more like a C90 camera which sounds more interesting than a R5C with the same R5 sensor and a fan. Price will be quite expensive though.

The obvious marketing decision would be to cripple some of the fancier stills photography functions of the R5, so buyers either have to choose an R5 for stills or the R5c for video.

This has been the way of Canon for awhile and honestly it doesn't bother me much. They should make each tool as sharp as hell for its intended use. The R5 is an awesome mirrorless hybrid (I own on its quite impressive) and the R5C should be a companion tool sharp for video with DGO technology.

The reason Canon left out CLog 2 is because the R5 only has 10.4 stops of dynamic range… which isn’t exactly great. The Sony A7S3 manages 12.4 usable stops.

I’m hoping that the R5C uses a newer sensor with better dynamic range.

This is my inclination as well. We all ready effectively have clog2 in the R5 via the RAW and the DR is pushed to its limits with the FSI 45MP sensor. It's actually quite impressive for what it is.

Clog2 really shines when paired with a higher DR DGO sensor. The workflow is very easy and getting the correct exposure is very easy which lends well to a smaller C style camera for run and gun stuff.

 

[DBounce]

The obvious marketing decision would be to cripple some of the fancier stills photography functions of the R5, so buyers either have to choose an R5 for stills or the R5c for video. It would be very un-Canon-like to give buyers all the functionality of the R5 and then some in the R5c, with the only minus being weather sealing. Either the Canon cripple hammer will strike hard, or the Canon overpricing mallet will make its mark instead and they'll charge way more than the R5c...

Well Nikon Z9 lurks around the corner… and Canon is more concerned about Nikon than Sony. So given that $5500 price point, Canon will be forced to keep the price of this non-flagship comfortably below the Nikon. Hopefully they will also feel compelled to include ProRes and ProRes Raw internally. I can see that becoming the new must have feature. And they had better build this thing right… I’m not dropping $$$$ on something made of plastic… magnesium alloy.

 

[Bob Howland]

It needs higher resolution also. At least 6K and preferably 8K.

And two CFExpress Type B slots

 

[padam]

Does the R3 have higher quality 4k 120p? That is nice to know. Btw where did you learn this? I would like to read that. Thanks much!

I could already see that from the various test footages, but Gordon Laing's tests also confirm this.

The only question mark is the dynamic range, but it certainly won't be any worse than the R5 and it might be better especially at higher ISOs.

All in all, the hardware in the R3 already looks more advanced to me than an actively cooled R5.

 

[RunAndGun]

And you know how?

I don’t know all the technical junk involved with this working, but isn’t the sensor regardless of size still the same distance from the lens?

Because of the space needed. Could it be done? Absolutely. But the body would have to be bigger. And not by an insignificant amount. Unless they went with a fixed ‘variable electronic ND’ system, which would more than likely mean that you would always have at least ~ 2-stops in, because that’s about as low as they go.

 

[perplex1]

I'm saying Canon should do the same but actually put on a nice screen. They really messed up with the C70. It's like they designed the camera and then forgot about the screen so just threw it on the back with a flimsy hinge. They could have at least used the C100 style hinge or came up with something new. I feel like the C70 with body refinements, better build quality, and a FF sensor would sell like hotcakes for years. A compact Canon Cinema camera with DGO and great AF and internal NDs.

Internal NDs are a stretch but I would take them, of course!

I don't think they messed up the c70 in anyway. I think it was a game changer for cinema cameras in such a small body. Also, my hinge was solid from day one. If I never read other's tales of bad hinges, I wouldn't even recognize it as an issue.

And beyond anecdotal comments of a massive hinge problem, I would assume that I am in the majority of c70 users who have great hinges.

 

[Stuart]

Does active cooling need to be an actual fan ? Maybe its a Peltier device and a heatsink to keep the body watertight? e.g. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Diymore-TE...c-Cooling/dp/B078GSC2L1/ref=asc_df_B078GSC2L1

 

[danivar]

Some comments about ND-filters here seem to be missing some central points.

1. The RF-mount can fit ND-filters as proven by the C70.
2. Fitting an ND-filter system requires space and hence a bigger camera body.
3. ND-filters are currently not compatible with neither a mechanical shutters nor IBIS. While it could be speculated that an ND-system that coexist with either m-shutter or IBIS could be invented, it's certainly not likely to appear in a camera that has both of these.

 

[danivar]

I expect the new sensor family will have electronic equivalent to ND, not physical filters, so no, you don't need space or a bigger body. They'd be fine with both mechanical shutters and IBIS.

Do you have any examples of such electronic ND that requires no physical space?

 

[John Wilde]

An example of active cooling.

 

[David Hull]

The majority of high end cinema cameras have active cooling.

Not a video guy but the answer would seem to be to put the audio mic somewhere else.

 

[Gazwas]

To wait for the R5C or to purchase the C70... The C70 gets better battery life and has internal NDs. Thoughts?

I”be been so close to buying a C70 so many times over the last few months but have decided to wait until the spring and NAB 2022 before buying so I can see if anything is coming from Canon.

Considering we don’t even know if the R5C is ever going to be a real product (much like the unicorn high resolution R5S) it’s hard to compare it to a C70.

Rumours of a C50 have all but dried up so who knows what’s coming down the pipe.

 

[Gazwas]

Not a video guy but the answer would seem to be to put the audio mic somewhere else.

Can’t speak for for ENG as never worked in that field but apart from use as scratch audio the only people I see with camera mounted mic’s are YouTubers in the usual merry-go-round of buy my recommended gear so I get sent more free stuff type video’s.

 

[Nathan Phillips]

Because of the space needed. Could it be done? Absolutely. But the body would have to be bigger. And not by an insignificant amount. Unless they went with a fixed ‘variable electronic ND’ system, which would more than likely mean that you would always have at least ~ 2-stops in, because that’s about as low as they go.

You have seen the new Ronin 4D, right?

 

[Finn]

I don't think they messed up the c70 in anyway. I think it was a game changer for cinema cameras in such a small body. Also, my hinge was solid from day one. If I never read other's tales of bad hinges, I wouldn't even recognize it as an issue.

And beyond anecdotal comments of a massive hinge problem, I would assume that I am in the majority of c70 users who have great hinges.

It was mentioned in multiple reviews and has been a problem. Griffin Conway had to send his c70 back as did a few people I know where the hinge becomes a floppy mess. Terrible for a 5K+ camera.

 

[privatebydesign]

The reason Canon left out CLog 2 is because the R5 only has 10.4 stops of dynamic range… which isn’t exactly great. The Sony A7S3 manages 12.4 usable stops.

I’m hoping that the R5C uses a newer sensor with better dynamic range.

Not according to well respected and independent testing of real world cameras.

They measure the R5 at 11.85 stops and the A7S III at 11.22 stops.

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

 

[Finn]

Not according to well respected and independent testing of real world cameras.

They measure the R5 at 11.85 stops and the A7S III at 11.22 stops.

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

View attachment 201171

Hint: The title of the graph says "Photographic" dynamic range. DR in video most always takes a hit because the sensors are reading out at different bit depths. In the case of the R5: photo mode with mechanical shutter is 14-bit and video readout modes are 12-bit. Hence the 12-bit RAW output.