New information about the upcoming Canon EOS R5C [CR3]

Finn

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 6, 2021
70
47
Stranger things have happened. We never thought the R5 would be as amazing and feature laden before the announcement.

There is a new FF DGO, 8K sensor with 17 stops of DR rumoured for the C500S so who knows what Canon will do.
The description of the R5C sounds very much like a C70 with a R5 45MP FF sensor in it. Which, in my opinion, is not very much of an upgrade of anything. Worse than the C70 in image, bigger than an R5 with no benefits except record times.

I would much rather take a this new FF DGO sensor in the rumored C500S gimped to 13-14 stops of dynamic range or something.

All we need is a FF DGO sensor in a small cinema body (c70 or smaller). If the form factor of the C70 was tweaked a bit and the screen improved that would be awesome.
 
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David - Sydney

EOS R
CR Pro
Dec 7, 2014
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Compared to which Sony processors? When one generalizes it often the case that no supporting data realy exist and that one is merely speculating. Post your side by side sensor data of the processors you state efficiencies for. CIPA is not an international engineering standard.
We are all speculating but making some considered guesses based on assumptions.
CIPA has been going for ~70 years and virtually all camera manufacturers are regular or supporting members. They have a variety of standards that they collaborate on. It is the only measure that the manufacturers publish their specs against.

Happy for you to tell me what engineering standard is relevant for photographers if you don't like CIPA. At the end of the day, togs just want to know how long a battery will last for their shooting style.

From a very rough perspective, Sony's FZ100 battery is approximately the same capacity (+7%) as the E6NH but the difference in CIPA ratings and the thermal limitations across a number of bodies would indicate that Sony's processors are more efficient than Canon. Clearly CIPA is an average but ~30% between R5/A1 (EVF) in not insignificant. Different shooting methodologies mean that CIPA is indicative but still a measure. There are lots of other factors eg EVF refresh rates, what temperature Sony/Canon will allow internal semiconductors to work up to, etc.

From a logical perspective, the Canon's choice of 45mp for the R5 means that no oversampling is needed using the Digic X. The A1's dual Bionz XR needs to oversample from 8.6k and process via codec to 4:2:0 XAVC HS vs virtually no processing for Canon raw. The use of the CFe Type B card seems to also generate a lot more heat whereas the A1 can record to the SD card as the bit rate isn't as high. The A1 is smaller than the R5 but the use of dual processors could either mean better heat distribution.

My assumption is that Sony's engineering history for video processing for their PS consoles would be portable technology. The camera processors could also have access to narrower lithography processes based on Sony's overall semiconductor volume. I haven't seen any teardown of the A1 yet. Will be interesting to see what is on the inside :)
 

danivar

I'm New Here
Feb 14, 2021
9
8
The description of the R5C sounds very much like a C70 with a R5 45MP FF sensor in it. Which, in my opinion, is not very much of an upgrade of anything. Worse than the C70 in image, bigger than an R5 with no benefits except record times.

I would much rather take a this new FF DGO sensor in the rumored C500S gimped to 13-14 stops of dynamic range or something.

All we need is a FF DGO sensor in a small cinema body (c70 or smaller). If the form factor of the C70 was tweaked a bit and the screen improved that would be awesome.
I really agree that a FF DGO sensor in the R5C is what we all want and need, but unfortunately I just don't think that's realistic to expect.

The R5C is still going to be a hybrid camera and I don't believe Canon makes any of their cinema sensors optimized for stills.

I also think cameras with cinema sensors will cost a lot more. A camera with a FF DGO sensor would most likely be priced above 10.000 USD, even if it's gimped in DR, while I expect the R5C to be priced slightly above the R5.

We will surely get a FF DGO sensor in a C70-style body in time, but it will more likely be in the form of a C90 than in the rumored R5C.

I also agree that the upgrades from the R5 seems quite incremental, but they are very relevant in addressing the R5's shortcomings and making the R5C actually usable as a professional hybrid tool. And while the DR isn't good enough to replace a true cinema camera, being a hybrid gives you other advantages and that comes with some compromises.
 
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Finn

EOS M6 Mark II
Mar 6, 2021
70
47
I really agree that a FF DGO sensor in the R5C is what we all want and need, but unfortunately I just don't think that's realistic to expect.

The R5C is still going to be a hybrid camera and I don't believe Canon makes any of their cinema sensors optimized for stills.

I also think cameras with cinema sensors will cost a lot more. A camera with a FF DGO sensor would most likely be priced above 10.000 USD, even if it's gimped in DR, while I expect the R5C to be priced slightly above the R5.

We will surely get a FF DGO sensor in a C70-style body in time, but it will more likely be in the form of a C90 than in the rumored R5C.

I also agree that the upgrades from the R5 seems quite incremental, but they are very relevant in addressing the R5's shortcomings and making the R5C actually usable as a professional hybrid tool. And while the DR isn't good enough to replace a true cinema camera, being a hybrid gives you other advantages and that comes with some compromises.
I'm sure you are correct in your prediction. Perhaps the R5C will signal a new form factor going forward for a small Canon C cameras, which is a good thing. I really hope we see a FF DGO sensor in a less than $6K body.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,176
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Davidson, NC
Though I must say, I tried the GFX 100s and it was realy quite slow. I think its only suited for studio work.
If canon offers a 70mp something fullframe camera, I would certainly prefer this over the GFX 100s, even for shooting in a controlled setting. Though its a tempting camera with this impressive resolution.
The shooting I would do with the 100s would be very slow and deliberate, so the camera would be faster than I would be. I would get it for landscapes, mostly with a tripod and playing around with settings, focus, etc. It would not take over for my DSLR. It is still tempting, though I realize I am unlikely to do that sort of shooting very often.
 
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stevelee

FT-QL
CR Pro
Jul 6, 2017
2,176
882
Davidson, NC
I understand very well, thanks. Can't say the same for you, though. But that wasn't really my point. To review, here are the images:

View attachment 201232

Now, here's what you said about the images:


Please show us your clear understanding of how those two images look the same. Because to anyone with a functional brain behind their eyes, those two images are different.
You make your point using a logarithmic simulation. I doubt that the point changes much with a linear approximation of Raw. But would the fact that three stops on the dark end occupy a tiny fraction of the whole, and three stops on the light end would be most (?) of the picture alter the practical effect?
 
Nov 22, 2021
1
0
The "Cinema" shooter in me wants a cheaper C70 with unlimited 6/8k, internal NDs, and professional in/outs.

The "YouTube" shooter in me wants a better EOS R with 4k60, No Crop and IBIS and USB-C Webcam.
 

peters

EOS RP
Dec 25, 2017
480
464
The "Cinema" shooter in me wants a cheaper C70 with unlimited 6/8k, internal NDs, and professional in/outs.

The "YouTube" shooter in me wants a better EOS R with 4k60, No Crop and IBIS and USB-C Webcam.
Maybe get the R5 with the atomos NInja V+?
Offers very good internal recording options, 4k60 and 4k120 without a crop. Quite good recording time internaly and unlimited 5k60 raw and 8k30 raw in the atomos.
If you use EF lenses you can get the internal Vario ND with the canon adapter, which works great in my experience.
In-Outs are not great though - micro HDMI sucks, no doubt. Though it can be worked around with a cage and the atomos, which offers another audio input and another full size hdmi out. The cam itself and the atomos can be easily powered with a battery dummy to a v-mount (with correct converter, otherwise it destroys the camera!) or to an outlet, in case you need unimited recording.
IBIS and USB-C Webcam is also included =)