Next Rebel Going EVF? [CR1]

[Lee Jay]

And when is the last time you had trouble with a mechanical aperture?

Never. But I want "better and smaller". 100% mechanics-free. Electronic apertures are a necessary part for future Solid State Cameras with functionality that far surpasses the hybrid-half-mechanical machines of yesterday and today. At least until we really move on to lightfield imaging devices.

I really don't want smaller, except for my pocket camera. My 35/1.4L is too small for me. My hands aren't getting any smaller, so why do I want my cameras to get smaller?

 

[ahsanford]

And when is the last time you had trouble with a mechanical aperture?

Never. But I want "better and smaller". 100% mechanics-free. Electronic apertures are a necessary part for future Solid State Cameras with functionality that far surpasses the hybrid-half-mechanical machines of yesterday and today. At least until we really move on to lightfield imaging devices.

I think you forgot the intermediate evolutionary phase where we all become videographers and poach our best stills from video.

- A

 

[dak723]

Rebels always had bad viewfinders. Entry-level shooters prefer WISYWIG though god knows anyone who has a clue what they're doing prefers optical finders.

Always glad to see insulting, ignorant comments on the web!

Having 35 years of photography experience, I was less than enthusiastic when I purchased an Olympus EM-1 with EVF. All I had ever used was an OVF, so was skeptical. Now after 1 year of owning both the Olympus and a Canon 6D, I wish the Canon had an EVF. Great advantage of WYSIWYG for difficult lighting situations such as sunsets. Many other "in viewfinder" adjustments and info available. The lag is so minimal it has never been an issue on any shot I have taken. In fact, the EVF is so good, I forget that it is an EVF while shooting.

And yes, I do have a clue what I am doing. Apology expected.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Does anyone not think it is strange that its so far away? Q2?
Maybe it is going to be a big step up and be a direct competetor to the 70D so they are wating to get as many 70D sales out. 80D will then be released Q3?

Since its a CR1, which means unlikely to happen. Well, maybe Q2 of 2035. Its just a rumor and a great discussion item, but when you start worrying about delivery dates, that's very premature.

 

[jeffa4444]

It's really interesting reading this debate the U.S. has had the worst take up of mirror less cameras. I've used them all the way back to the first Olympus E-PL1 and now use the Olympus OM-D E-M10. The E-M10 is a great camera with great IQ certainly better than my Canon 7d which I now hardly use. However the E-M10 is no match for the 6d which far excels it IQ wise.
As I can afford both systems they have separate uses for city / urban or walkabout the Oly is my choice for landscape the 6d is my choice and for wildlife & sport I still use the 7d.
I really don't notice any longer the difference between the Optical Finder and the EVF you quickly adapt to both I'm more interested in control layout and intuitive menus here Canon beats Olympus but the rotary control on the E-M10 to adjust exposure comp is easier than Canon.

 

[jeffa4444]

Woody
The Olympus OM-D E-M10 can use their iPhone app. For wireless remote with live view and touch screen focus. The Canon 6d uses Canon similar app. and I have to say Olympus app is better.
I have the grip for both cameras and flash for both cameras so Olympus doesn't really have that much of a gap than Canon.

 

[ahsanford]

Rebels always had bad viewfinders. Entry-level shooters prefer WISYWIG though god knows anyone who has a clue what they're doing prefers optical finders.

Always glad to see insulting, ignorant comments on the web!

Having 35 years of photography experience, I was less than enthusiastic when I purchased an Olympus EM-1 with EVF. All I had ever used was an OVF, so was skeptical. Now after 1 year of owning both the Olympus and a Canon 6D, I wish the Canon had an EVF. Great advantage of WYSIWYG for difficult lighting situations such as sunsets. Many other "in viewfinder" adjustments and info available. The lag is so minimal it has never been an issue on any shot I have taken. In fact, the EVF is so good, I forget that it is an EVF while shooting.

And yes, I do have a clue what I am doing. Apology expected.

Yeah, I wish the world could take a more measured approach to condemning things they don't like.

Personally, I prefer the responsiveness of an OVF and have shot DSLRs for about ten years now.

That said, I've never owned an EVF camera (unless cell phones count ). I have tinkered with EVFs in hands-on moments in stores -- particularly Sony mirrorless models as I have a Sony store near me. I have found the EVFs to be bright and loaded full of information, but a shade laggy compared to what I am used to.

I think the appeal of an EVF varies on what you shoot. If I could completely decouple the fact that those shooting with EVFs do so because it's the only VF you get with mirrorless (unless you go... Fuji or Leica, right?) -- and that's a big if -- you could parse out some nice upsides to an EVF:

• You get the upside of LiveView without the somewhat detached composition feel of looking at the LCD. I personally love LiveView on a tripod for landscape work, but it's not the responsive framing experience that using handholding through the viewfinder gives you. Someone just made a comment about super bright shooting like a sunset, and you just can't experience that before you shoot on an OVF.
  
  
• You can shape / modify your viewfinder experience. A real time histo instead of a basic EV indicator, focus peaking, highlight clipping warnings in context in the shot, etc. would seem to be powerful opportunities if they didn't clutter things too much.
  
  
• It has got to be easier to see in dark conditions, right?

But there are realities about battery life and responsiveness that would represent a downgrade to OVF shooters. So, for me (and not condemning those that disagree), I'm still OVF until I get a compelling reason to leave that behind.

- A

 

[Lee Jay]

...the Oly is my choice for landscape...

...I really don't notice any longer the difference between the Optical Finder and the EVF...

These two are directly related. For landscape, you can get away without a viewfinder, in many cases. Try shooting low-light action with the EVF camera and you'll quickly find it in pieces on the ground after you've missed your hundredth consecutive shot.

 

[Policar]

Rebels always had bad viewfinders. Entry-level shooters prefer WISYWIG though god knows anyone who has a clue what they're doing prefers optical finders.

Always glad to see insulting, ignorant comments on the web!

Good for you, I can tell. Continue posting them!

Those of us who know what we're doing will get back to shooting with optical finders and knowing how to meter properly in the first place.

As for my apology, you've earned it. I'm sorry you've been shooting that long and still don't have a clue how to meter!

 

[ahsanford]

I'm more interested in control layout and intuitive menus here Canon beats Olympus but the rotary control on the E-M10 to adjust exposure comp is easier than Canon.

Wow. My 5D3 (and I think both your 6D and 7D) use the back wheel for EC. There are no buttons to press... you just turn the wheel. I'd argue that's the easiest adjustment Canon has other than the index finger wheel (for shutter or aperture, depending on what mode you're in).

I've never shot the Olympus, but how does it beat a dedicated wheel for a task? Is it in a better location, perhaps? Just curious.

- A

 

[Bennymiata]

Many of us on this forum have been asking Canon to catch up with Sony, but we want Canon to catch up with their sensors, and NOT the horrible evf!

 

[RodS57]

Responding to nothing in particular but some of the comments in general.

As far as smaller size camera goes with or without EVF and no mirror - not interested. I like to have room to hold onto the camera without accidentally touching controls. Actually being able to get a comfortable grip is the biggest short coming of all these small cameras.

EVF vs OVF - my last camera had EVF and didn't work well but to be fair the camera is old and no comparison to what's out there today. That being said the EVF provided much more information than my 'new' OVF. Short term this was an issue because I can't read with glasses off and can't see through the viewfinder with glasses on. I just got used to not seeing information that i normally could see in the EVF.

 

[Woody]

Woody
The Olympus OM-D E-M10 can use their iPhone app. For wireless remote with live view and touch screen focus. The Canon 6d uses Canon similar app. and I have to say Olympus app is better.
I have the grip for both cameras and flash for both cameras so Olympus doesn't really have that much of a gap than Canon.

Thanks for the info.

But as many users have pointed out, there is still a preference for non-wifi remote as one does not need to worry about phone battery. Also, is there a wired remote to allow star trails photography?

In addition, doesn't the use of grip negate the size/weight advantage of the E-M10? This however is not a concern for me as I am used to carrying spare batteries.

 

[c.d.embrey]

Well, I use a 15mm/2.8 fisheye on full-frame, and the 10mm f/2.8 for crop seems to be quite good as well.

Glad that you like fisheye lenses. I prefer wide rectilinear lenses. Something like the EF 14mm f/2.8. A 9mm crop lens (=14.4 Full Frame). An f/1.8 or f/2.0 would be nice

BTW the Sigma 10mm F/2.8 EX DC Fisheye is a Sigma, not a Canon lens

 

[c.d.embrey]

I really don't want smaller, except for my pocket camera. My 35/1.4L is too small for me. My hands aren't getting any smaller, so why do I want my cameras to get smaller?

I'm over 6' tall, wear size 13 shoes and have hands to match And I prefer holding a Sony NEX over any of my Canon Film SLR or DSLR cameras. YMMV, but please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't like.

 

[Lee Jay]

I really don't want smaller, except for my pocket camera. My 35/1.4L is too small for me. My hands aren't getting any smaller, so why do I want my cameras to get smaller?

I'm over 6' tall, wear size 13 shoes and have hands to match And I prefer holding a Sony NEX over any of my Canon Film SLR or DSLR cameras. YMMV, but please don't tell me what I should or shouldn't like.

I'm 5'6" and wear size 7 shoes, and my 5D and 70-200/2.8 is the easiest and most comfortable combo I've ever used. I can use if all day every day with no trouble, but a Rebel and 15-85 killed my hands after just an hour and a half - too small.

 

[sanj]

Oh no!!! The mighty Canon is going to have the lowly EVF. Oh hooo. Now what will all the anti EVF people say???
Let me start reading the thread after posting this…

It ought to be entertaining...

 

[sanj]

If it goes EVF ... will Canon make it mirrorless? No more mirror-slap would be good!

Interesting to see how far Canon will go with this...

But obviously they're preparing themselves to do mirrorless in an SLR styled body, a la Sony A7.

Canon and mirror less? Naaaa that is for inferior camera manufactures. [Sarcasm]

 

[sanj]

EVF are hopelessly bad. Still laggy. Yiiiiikes.

I'll take the tiny Rebel pentamirror any day over the EVFs available today.

The latest Olympus EVF has a lag of 0.016. (16 milliseconds). I wouldn't call that "hopelessly bad."

Even if it were true (I think it isn't), that's still hopelessly bad. It needs to be under 5ms for all lighting conditions, preferably closer to 2ms.

I wonder if you have actually used an EVF. To me, after using XE2 for over a year, they are GREAT.

 

[9VIII]

One of the things I want most out of a mirrorless full size EOS is the ability to make 24mm Pancake lenses that sit as much behind the flange as in front.
There isn't much space back there as is, it wouldn't be hard to keep the same EF mount and still have mirrorless lenses incompatible with mirrored bodies, the only thing you have to keep the same is the contacts, which are mostly out of the way sitting on the bottom, which wasn't a problem for EF-S either.
The real question is whether a 24mm pancake is really worth all the trouble, but if you're making a camera with no mirror anyway...
(and yes that an "EF" Full Frame 24mm Pancake that I'm talking about, not "EF-S", which is already coming)

Not needed. Exists already ... EF-M 22/2.0. Small pancake. Great lens. Excellent value. ;D

I'm looking for the 24mm Full Frame FOV, it would have to be a 15mm EF-M lens to do that.