Patent: A Few More Image Sensor Patents from Canon

[Loswr]

Makes sense. Let's see how this evolves though. I think we have a lot more to see.

Five years ago, Canon said you'd see it...in 2030.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/06/canon-wonder-camera-concept-promises-single-lens-perfection-vid/

 

[Stu_bert]

@stu_bert: No, I mean this http://www.dpreview.com/articles/3071034479/panasonic-to-restart-development-of-image-sensors-to-fast-track-8k-video?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu

Not Lumix of course but dSLR. Mind 4K is now coming on dSLR.

You asked if Canon was developing 8k video, that was the link I provided

 

[Stu_bert]

As for the original post. it's exciting to say the least to see this stuff spilling out of Canon at the same time. We know how tight lipped they are with models like the 1DX2, so perhaps they waited as long as they could to file the patents on what could be matured technology ready for market. PERHAPS. Not making any bets here just yet. But I suppose it wouldn't surprise me at this point.

Looks like the dual gain amps which I think are in one of those patents are being shown along with the 250MP APS-H sensor in Jan - look at a news article for 6th Dec at the other Canon rumour site (CW)...

I think along with Maeda's comments about agreeing to the cost for onchip ADC, means maybe 2016 will see some more significant changes in Canon's sensor tech.

I agree with your comments - Canon often waits for the tech to mature and achieve a level of reliability for them (in terms of perfecting new manufacturing techniques), along with the combination of sweating their existing manufacturing assets and deciding when they need to change their sensor tech. Canon has always been good at deciding when it needs to make changes, and I would guess it made that choice shortly after the 1DX etc were released based on how long I think significant changes take (maybe longer).

I'm still just curious as to why the 5Ds was released "early" (ie without these changes), unless Canon was using it to test the market (their user base, not the wider user base) or just that it wasn't ready? Perhaps the cinema video market is also different, hence again not such a burning need.

I know people like to discuss the tech a lot here, but in addition I would love to know how Canon gets such good information about their user base. Sure they're not perfect, but they do seem to have a good finger on the pulse.

 

[George D.]

Makes sense. Let's see how this evolves though. I think we have a lot more to see.

Five years ago, Canon said you'd see it...in 2030.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/06/canon-wonder-camera-concept-promises-single-lens-perfection-vid/

The exact article I said I can't vouch on it. Keep in mind Canon sometimes goes with the flow. If in late '80s you were telling me Autofocus would be the norm I'd say it's not going to happen. So let's see what others are also doing (with 8K).

 

[msm]

Yeah and as usual he has no vision past current Canon DSLRs. If they want to make a camera like this, they can easily make the firmware extract the stills for you automatically so you can extract the stills and upload them just as you would single images. That is just a question of a suitable storage format, a little processing power and trivial software implementation.

Yeah and as usual you fail to consider practical realities. It's so trivial it's been done with 1080p and 4K already, right? More importantly, as usual you ignore the reality of business. Even if it's trivial to do from a technical standpoint, it's not worth doing if there's no consumer demand. You can use the current implementation and extensive availability of on-board still frame extraction from 1080p and 4K video to gauge that demand.

Maybe you should get reading glasses, the part that is trivial is the software implementation of a solution to your imaginary problem you just invented above.

I have already mentioned some challenges which must be overcome before the video solution can be implemented like mentioned above, in addition you would need competitive AF and required processing power. But then again if someone would go that direction another advantage is that they can generate live view, autofocus data and images from the same data stream, no viewfinder blackout whatsoever. Such a camera could even store images of the last second continously in a ring buffer so that the photographer could record 1s from the past if he missed something.

 

[Loswr]

Yeah and as usual he has no vision past current Canon DSLRs. If they want to make a camera like this, they can easily make the firmware extract the stills for you automatically so you can extract the stills and upload them just as you would single images. That is just a question of a suitable storage format, a little processing power and trivial software implementation.

Yeah and as usual you fail to consider practical realities. It's so trivial it's been done with 1080p and 4K already, right? More importantly, as usual you ignore the reality of business. Even if it's trivial to do from a technical standpoint, it's not worth doing if there's no consumer demand. You can use the current implementation and extensive availability of on-board still frame extraction from 1080p and 4K video to gauge that demand.

Maybe you should get reading glasses, the part that is trivial is the software implementation of a solution to your imaginary problem you just invented above.

I have already mentioned some challenges which must be overcome before the video solution can be implemented like mentioned above, in addition you would need competitive AF and required processing power. But then again if someone would go that direction another advantage is that they can generate live view, autofocus data and images from the same data stream, no viewfinder blackout whatsoever. Such a camera could even store images of the last second continously in a ring buffer so that the photographer could record 1s from the past if he missed something.

Maybe you should throw away your rose-colored specs. Could have been done with 1080p. Hasn't been. Could have been done with 4K. Hasn't been. But it's coming for 8K? Right. :

 

[jrista]

Good to see nothing ever changes around here... :

 

[Jack Douglas]

Good to see nothing ever changes around here... :

Hey Jon, good to see you still visit to observe that nothing changes; it's the funny pages in a different format - luv it. Like a microcosm of the world and very entertaining. So how are the starry skies these days?

Jack

 

[Orangutan]

Good to see nothing ever changes around here... :

Every comic strip needs a few static characters to contrast with the more vital ones, for example the father in Calvin and Hobbes, or J.J. in Doonesbury...or all the characters in Peanuts.

 

[DCP]

What if Canon catch's up in the sensor tech war. Then the competition comes out with something even better than the "New Canon Sensors" a week or month later? :'(

It's going to be a never ending sensor tech war until a real new quantum phase light sensor comes out!

Every industry goes through this, cars, car tires, skis, boats, bicycles, motorcycles, running shoes, stereo equipment, and surely cameras. Products evolve. As long as the consumer demands better, as long as egos are involved at the big corporate level we will get better products and not just a new paint job. We win. So let the 4 eyed geeky buggers at Canon and Nikon and Sony duke it out. Because we end up getting a better product every time a new version is released. Keep telling the companies directly they need this feature or that function to be better in the next camera, that is what keeps it all going forward for us the consumer.

 

[jrista]

Good to see nothing ever changes around here... :

Hey Jon, good to see you still visit to observe that nothing changes; it's the funny pages in a different format - luv it. Like a microcosm of the world and very entertaining. So how are the starry skies these days?

Jack

You would think at some point people would stop trying to convince each other of things they cannot be convinced of.

Anyway, stars:

VDB 27 and friends.

 

[Stu_bert]

Good to see nothing ever changes around here... :

Every comic strip needs a few static characters to contrast with the more vital ones, for example the father in Calvin and Hobbes, or J.J. in Doonesbury...or all the characters in Peanuts.

Except this isnt supposed to be a soap opera or comic strip , and the useful comments & discussions get buried in the drama :

Nice picture Jon

 

[Orangutan]

You would think at some point people would stop trying to convince each other of things they cannot be convinced of.

I still have a (possibly unfounded) hope that we can achieve mutual understanding, even if we don't convince each other.

Anyway, stars:

Very nice picture.

 

[Jack Douglas]

You would think at some point people would stop trying to convince each other of things they cannot be convinced of.

I still have a (possibly unfounded) hope that we can achieve mutual understanding, even if we don't convince each other.

Anyway, stars:

Very nice picture.

Diversity of views and perspectives and tolerance is a positive even when it seems a pain and it's entertaining as is seeing photos of the starry skies and other wonders. Life is good. Lightheartedness is a medicine and CR serves a very useful purpose overall!

Jack

 

[sanj]

Sony is innovating at a blazing pace. Canon has been much more conservative.

Translation: Sony is burning R&D money fast, and still can't figure out how to make a consistently profitable product line, as Canon has.

To reiterate yet again, while I would be happy to see improved sensor tech in Canon products, the market does not yet appear to demand it.

I read CR for the humour or is it humor.

Jack

As it is a Canadian based website, it is humour..... but the endless debate about sensours is not funny...

 

[sanj]

Sony is innovating at a blazing pace. Canon has been much more conservative.

Translation: Sony is burning R&D money fast, and still can't figure out how to make a consistently profitable product line, as Canon has.

To reiterate yet again, while I would be happy to see improved sensor tech in Canon products, the market does not yet appear to demand it.

I bought 5D, 5D ii, 6D and 5D iii. Wedding season is over now and I'll buy a new body around February next year. It is NOT going to be a Canon body FOR SURE. Few of my friends have done same already. I can't switch entirely because of my extensive lens collection. But the new body paired with a 35 and 50 art will be doing excellent. I don't want to name it, but I have rented the body and trust me, it's a leap ahead from Canon in many Regards and let me be more creative by doing few things which canon body is incapable of.

Let canon sit on their lazy back and take pride in their AF, speedlite etc but slip the main thing of a body, sensor lol... They have a long way to go before selling another body to me. And probably lens too!

"Canon Guy" no more?

 

[sanj]

I'm a professional wedding, commercial and landscape photographer and I have just swapped wholesale from Canon to Nikon. That sounds like the start of a dirty confession, but I'll explain my reasons why.

I've spent the last two years shooting with a pair of 5D3's and more recently, a 6D and before that 5D2's and before that it was 5D Mark 1's. I had a complete collection of L series lenses (15mm fisheye, 16-35II, 24-70II, 70-200II, 85 1.2 II, 24-35-50mm sigma ART's, 600EXRT's-Basically a wedding, commercial or landscape photographers standard setup).

I've just swapped all the above for the equivalent Nikon kit (14-24, 85 1.4G being the only real differences) and bought myself a pair of Nikon D810's and a D750 for faster moments. I shot my first wedding on them last weekend and it has to be said that it's probably the best thing I've ever done.

The difference in image quality, dynamic range (I know that's a dirty phrase around here sometimes, but it makes a difference) and high ISO performance is amazing. The Nikons leave the Canons in the dust. I'm not just saying it because of the fairly major investment I've had to put into it either. I loved my Canon kit and have shot over 500,000 images on it reliably and without hassle over the last two years alone and didn't plan on making the swap. But then a friend of mine showed me the files he was getting from the D810 and I was blown away.

The files coming out of the D810 are superior in every important way, their lenses are so similar in performance that it's not worth arguing about and the autofocus (especially the 3D tracking) is leagues ahead compared to that of the 5D3’s, simple as that. And THIS is why Canon needs to catch up. I have no doubt that the 5D4 will be an amazing camera when it appears, but Nikon/Sony have raised the image quality bar to such a high standard that Canon really needs to beat it, or else there will surely be more working professionals like me making the jump, whether it be to the big N or to Fuji, Sony or A.N. Other mirrorless/mirrored brand (although I'm yet to meet anyone shooting weddings on Sony). I have to agree with CR Guy when he says that if there isn't a bit of a leap in performance then Canon's sales will start to suffer.

Compare the specs of the 6D to the D750 and try not to be impressed. These are meant to be cameras in a similar price bracket and are marketed towards similar demographic groups, but the D750 is just a thing of wonder. Smaller, lighter, flipping screen, MUCH better image quality, a better AF system than even the D4S, more comfortable to hold than the 6D and it only carries a fractional price difference over the 6D. And the D810 is just in a completely different league to the 5D3.

Halfway through the wedding last weekend I wondered if I'd made the right decision, as looking at the back of the camera it didn't look too different to what I'd been getting, but once I'd got the cards onto the computer it's was obvious just how much better the Nikons are. I'm not trying to say that everybody should jump ship if the 5D4 is a bit of a dud or if it comes out looking like Canon has ignored the wants and needs of its professional user base, as it's a massive leap to make-trust me, I was so comfortable using my Canons that I didn't need to look at the settings, my fingers just knew where to go to change stuff, and trying to learn a new system in a few days before a wedding was REALLY hard work. But the pictures that these camera allow me to produce now are better (not MASSIVELY, but noticeably) and Canon has to react to that, if nothing else.

Feel free to criticise my decision as I'm sure a lot of the hardcore CR forum members will do, but it's only my opinion and personal quest to get the best image quality possible within my own financial means and I'm very glad I've made the jump indeed. What do I miss? Smaller file sizes (storage is cheap), some of the lenses, (just because I like the look they give-85mm 1.2 being a case in point-hurry up Sigma!) and the 600EXRT system which will hopefully be replicated by Nikon with their SB5000, due out soon, if not, I can do the same with the pocket wizards I also purchased...

So there you have it, an over-long cautionary message to Canon that you're not indestructible and people will make the move if you rest on your laurels for too long.

Signed,
A former Canon Fanboy

You are not the only professional who has left Canon. I know of 4 others I can think of immediately. I personally love the 1dc to think otherwise.. Wait maybe a light Sony for travel. Lets see.

 

[privatebydesign]

I'm a professional wedding, commercial and landscape photographer and I have just swapped wholesale from Canon to Nikon. That sounds like the start of a dirty confession, but I'll explain my reasons why.

I've spent the last two years shooting with a pair of 5D3's and more recently, a 6D and before that 5D2's and before that it was 5D Mark 1's. I had a complete collection of L series lenses (15mm fisheye, 16-35II, 24-70II, 70-200II, 85 1.2 II, 24-35-50mm sigma ART's, 600EXRT's-Basically a wedding, commercial or landscape photographers standard setup).

I've just swapped all the above for the equivalent Nikon kit (14-24, 85 1.4G being the only real differences) and bought myself a pair of Nikon D810's and a D750 for faster moments. I shot my first wedding on them last weekend and it has to be said that it's probably the best thing I've ever done.

The difference in image quality, dynamic range (I know that's a dirty phrase around here sometimes, but it makes a difference) and high ISO performance is amazing. The Nikons leave the Canons in the dust. I'm not just saying it because of the fairly major investment I've had to put into it either. I loved my Canon kit and have shot over 500,000 images on it reliably and without hassle over the last two years alone and didn't plan on making the swap. But then a friend of mine showed me the files he was getting from the D810 and I was blown away.

The files coming out of the D810 are superior in every important way, their lenses are so similar in performance that it's not worth arguing about and the autofocus (especially the 3D tracking) is leagues ahead compared to that of the 5D3’s, simple as that. And THIS is why Canon needs to catch up. I have no doubt that the 5D4 will be an amazing camera when it appears, but Nikon/Sony have raised the image quality bar to such a high standard that Canon really needs to beat it, or else there will surely be more working professionals like me making the jump, whether it be to the big N or to Fuji, Sony or A.N. Other mirrorless/mirrored brand (although I'm yet to meet anyone shooting weddings on Sony). I have to agree with CR Guy when he says that if there isn't a bit of a leap in performance then Canon's sales will start to suffer.

Compare the specs of the 6D to the D750 and try not to be impressed. These are meant to be cameras in a similar price bracket and are marketed towards similar demographic groups, but the D750 is just a thing of wonder. Smaller, lighter, flipping screen, MUCH better image quality, a better AF system than even the D4S, more comfortable to hold than the 6D and it only carries a fractional price difference over the 6D. And the D810 is just in a completely different league to the 5D3.

Halfway through the wedding last weekend I wondered if I'd made the right decision, as looking at the back of the camera it didn't look too different to what I'd been getting, but once I'd got the cards onto the computer it's was obvious just how much better the Nikons are. I'm not trying to say that everybody should jump ship if the 5D4 is a bit of a dud or if it comes out looking like Canon has ignored the wants and needs of its professional user base, as it's a massive leap to make-trust me, I was so comfortable using my Canons that I didn't need to look at the settings, my fingers just knew where to go to change stuff, and trying to learn a new system in a few days before a wedding was REALLY hard work. But the pictures that these camera allow me to produce now are better (not MASSIVELY, but noticeably) and Canon has to react to that, if nothing else.

Feel free to criticise my decision as I'm sure a lot of the hardcore CR forum members will do, but it's only my opinion and personal quest to get the best image quality possible within my own financial means and I'm very glad I've made the jump indeed. What do I miss? Smaller file sizes (storage is cheap), some of the lenses, (just because I like the look they give-85mm 1.2 being a case in point-hurry up Sigma!) and the 600EXRT system which will hopefully be replicated by Nikon with their SB5000, due out soon, if not, I can do the same with the pocket wizards I also purchased...

So there you have it, an over-long cautionary message to Canon that you're not indestructible and people will make the move if you rest on your laurels for too long.

Signed,
A former Canon Fanboy

You are not the only professional who has left Canon. I know of 4 others I can think of immediately. I personally love the 1dc to think otherwise.. Wait maybe a light Sony for travel. Lets see.

Canon, Sony, Nikon et al all offer different abilities within their systems. Since cameras came out people have swapped brands, had multiple brands and multiple format kits, it is nothing new. People hone down their abilities and preferences and realise what they have is not best for them.

There are many high profile users switching from Nikon to Canon, and some switching the other way, and some that are dropping both and going to Sony, I know one Nikon and two Canon shooters that have gone to Sony in the last six months, one Canon shooter switched back to Canon, so what.

Generalisations are difficult because they are, well, generalisations, but Sony make the best sensors and most limited AF and lens selections, if you shoot difficult lighting situations without the need for exotic lenses then Sony have a very compelling system. Canon and Nikon have 'better AF and lens selections, Canon's lens selection is unmatched and if you want the broadest range of exotic lenses and effortless radio flash then Canon wins, easily, but you really need to push that envelop a little, the 85 f1.2 on a 5DSR in a studio lighting environment is a thing of beauty that truthfully pushes to the boundaries of medium format IQ for a fraction of the price. Nikon fall some way between the two.

There is no stand out must have system that beats all others, the better photographers we become the more nuanced our gear choices, 35 f1.4L or 35 f2 IS for example (neither of which have a direct equal in any other system!). If Nikon, Sony or Canon serves you better then go for it. But there are people doing your job just as well with another brand because that suits them, personally, better.

 

[Jack Douglas]

privatebydesign, kind of intuitively obvious and that would end the discussion but people like to keep these discussions going for some reason.

Jack

 

[Mr1Dx]

I'm a professional wedding, commercial and landscape photographer and I have just swapped wholesale from Canon to Nikon. That sounds like the start of a dirty confession, but I'll explain my reasons why.

I've spent the last two years shooting with a pair of 5D3's and more recently, a 6D and before that 5D2's and before that it was 5D Mark 1's. I had a complete collection of L series lenses (15mm fisheye, 16-35II, 24-70II, 70-200II, 85 1.2 II, 24-35-50mm sigma ART's, 600EXRT's-Basically a wedding, commercial or landscape photographers standard setup).

I've just swapped all the above for the equivalent Nikon kit (14-24, 85 1.4G being the only real differences) and bought myself a pair of Nikon D810's and a D750 for faster moments. I shot my first wedding on them last weekend and it has to be said that it's probably the best thing I've ever done.

The difference in image quality, dynamic range (I know that's a dirty phrase around here sometimes, but it makes a difference) and high ISO performance is amazing. The Nikons leave the Canons in the dust. I'm not just saying it because of the fairly major investment I've had to put into it either. I loved my Canon kit and have shot over 500,000 images on it reliably and without hassle over the last two years alone and didn't plan on making the swap. But then a friend of mine showed me the files he was getting from the D810 and I was blown away.

The files coming out of the D810 are superior in every important way, their lenses are so similar in performance that it's not worth arguing about and the autofocus (especially the 3D tracking) is leagues ahead compared to that of the 5D3’s, simple as that. And THIS is why Canon needs to catch up. I have no doubt that the 5D4 will be an amazing camera when it appears, but Nikon/Sony have raised the image quality bar to such a high standard that Canon really needs to beat it, or else there will surely be more working professionals like me making the jump, whether it be to the big N or to Fuji, Sony or A.N. Other mirrorless/mirrored brand (although I'm yet to meet anyone shooting weddings on Sony). I have to agree with CR Guy when he says that if there isn't a bit of a leap in performance then Canon's sales will start to suffer.

Compare the specs of the 6D to the D750 and try not to be impressed. These are meant to be cameras in a similar price bracket and are marketed towards similar demographic groups, but the D750 is just a thing of wonder. Smaller, lighter, flipping screen, MUCH better image quality, a better AF system than even the D4S, more comfortable to hold than the 6D and it only carries a fractional price difference over the 6D. And the D810 is just in a completely different league to the 5D3.

Halfway through the wedding last weekend I wondered if I'd made the right decision, as looking at the back of the camera it didn't look too different to what I'd been getting, but once I'd got the cards onto the computer it's was obvious just how much better the Nikons are. I'm not trying to say that everybody should jump ship if the 5D4 is a bit of a dud or if it comes out looking like Canon has ignored the wants and needs of its professional user base, as it's a massive leap to make-trust me, I was so comfortable using my Canons that I didn't need to look at the settings, my fingers just knew where to go to change stuff, and trying to learn a new system in a few days before a wedding was REALLY hard work. But the pictures that these camera allow me to produce now are better (not MASSIVELY, but noticeably) and Canon has to react to that, if nothing else.

Feel free to criticise my decision as I'm sure a lot of the hardcore CR forum members will do, but it's only my opinion and personal quest to get the best image quality possible within my own financial means and I'm very glad I've made the jump indeed. What do I miss? Smaller file sizes (storage is cheap), some of the lenses, (just because I like the look they give-85mm 1.2 being a case in point-hurry up Sigma!) and the 600EXRT system which will hopefully be replicated by Nikon with their SB5000, due out soon, if not, I can do the same with the pocket wizards I also purchased...

So there you have it, an over-long cautionary message to Canon that you're not indestructible and people will make the move if you rest on your laurels for too long.

Signed,
A former Canon Fanboy

You are not the only professional who has left Canon. I know of 4 others I can think of immediately. I personally love the 1dc to think otherwise.. Wait maybe a light Sony for travel. Lets see.

Canon, Sony, Nikon et al all offer different abilities within their systems. Since cameras came out people have swapped brands, had multiple brands and multiple format kits, it is nothing new. People hone down their abilities and preferences and realise what they have is not best for them.

There are many high profile users switching from Nikon to Canon, and some switching the other way, and some that are dropping both and going to Sony, I know one Nikon and two Canon shooters that have gone to Sony in the last six months, one Canon shooter switched back to Canon, so what.

Generalisations are difficult because they are, well, generalisations, but Sony make the best sensors and most limited AF and lens selections, if you shoot difficult lighting situations without the need for exotic lenses then Sony have a very compelling system. Canon and Nikon have 'better AF and lens selections, Canon's lens selection is unmatched and if you want the broadest range of exotic lenses and effortless radio flash then Canon wins, easily, but you really need to push that envelop a little, the 85 f1.2 on a 5DSR in a studio lighting environment is a thing of beauty that truthfully pushes to the boundaries of medium format IQ for a fraction of the price. Nikon fall some way between the two.

There is no stand out must have system that beats all others, the better photographers we become the more nuanced our gear choices, 35 f1.4L or 35 f2 IS for example (neither of which have a direct equal in any other system!). If Nikon, Sony or Canon serves you better then go for it. But there are people doing your job just as well with another brand because that suits them, personally, better.

Good thinking privatebydesign.

I'm no hurry selling my Canon primes. The lenses will likely to be passed on to two grandsons.