Price point of a 5Dmk2 replacement

[scottkinfw]

I enjoy your posts.

I am curious. Which of the 1 series cameras would be somewhat equivalent to a 5D 2 or 3?

Thanks.

sek

Expect the same price. Canon wants you to buy a FF camera and then you'll want a "L" lens to go with it. --- Gotcha ;D

They've already 'got' me, with 9 L-series lenses in the kit. But if a 1DsIV comes out at the same price as the 1DsIII, I'll be a happy fellow...

 

[Zuuyi]

I enjoy your posts.

I am curious. Which of the 1 series cameras would be somewhat equivalent to a 5D 2 or 3?

Thanks.

sek

The 1Ds is the studio camera so that is what the 5D aspires to be. But the 1Ds has much better metering. But the 5D2 is much cheaper so it is by far a much more popular(sales) FF camera.

 

[Sunnystate]

Excellent topic, and really interesting picture is emerging here.
Looks like except hand full of professionals, some really crazy enthusiasts, may be some lawyers, dentists and yes neuroanatmist, nobody else can afford FF or in other words humble 35 mm format digital camera.
I really hope Canon, and others are not creating this elitist club with premeditation...
Good night everybody!

 

[moreorless]

I'd guess alot depends on exactly where the 5D mk3 will fit into Canon's lineup, if theres a new FF body(either 6D or 3D) then theres the possibility of it being shifted up or down in spec. I wouldnt be supprized if it was the latter personally, perhaps we could end up with a lineup with 3 FF bodies(5D, 3D, 1D/1Ds) all with the same sensor but with build, AF and FPS getting progressively better ala crops?

That does seem to make sense to me since it allows Canon to exploit the market the 5D mk2 is currently tapping into with a cheaper FF body while offering something better to those wanting the AF/Build/FPS upgrades.

 

[J. McCabe]

Obviously we dont know what the spec is of a 5Dmk2 replacement (even if one ever appears) but there was lots of 'talk' about product realignment in previous posts, and a guess at new range entry costs.

All of you waiting for a 5DMK2 replacement, if it WAS $3500 would you still get it?

As noted by others before, the main question would be what would I get for that price - improved IQ ? better AF ? higher fps ?

Would I have to spend money on other extras ? E.g. would it use the LP-E6 batteries I have, or would I have to buy new spares ?

For me, it's not out of the question, but the features would definitely need to justify it.

 

[Flake]

Excellent topic, and really interesting picture is emerging here.
Looks like except hand full of professionals, some really crazy enthusiasts, may be some lawyers, dentists and yes neuroanatmist, nobody else can afford FF or in other words humble 35 mm format digital camera.
I really hope Canon, and others are not creating this elitist club with premeditation...
Good night everybody!

I actually hope they are! There needs to be something to separate professional photographers from the amateurs. In the film days there was medium format a totally different camera from 35mm, customers could see it wasn't an ordinary camera.

It's not necessarily about ability or creativity for clients, they want a 'light & magic show' they need to see a bagfull of kit and a fancy camera, turn up to shoot a celeb or a politician with a lesser camera and you probably won't get past security even though it'll return just as good results. A white lens and large body will open doors for you, sometimes even when you don't actually have access!

Photographic excellence can be acheived with all of the APS-C cameras, full frame is not some magical quantum leap improvement which will improve your photography, in fact it's more difficult to use properly, so the likelyhood is that for many it will make their results worse!

Some are still using film and telling the clients it's better or they only use film (for what ever pretentious reason) then charging a fortune - it doesn't have to be better, the client just has to believe that it is!

 

[CJRodgers]

I earn the U.K average sallary, but i would consider it if it was packaged with a good lens at a price that made the lens discounted. It is a hobby for me, but im intending to take it seriously when I get a FF camera. I want to try and make money with the gear i buy. Not alot, just enough to justify the kit.

Obvisouly i might never make a penny, but it comforts me that if i NEEDED to sell all of the gear, i probably wouldnt lose too much. This type of gear seems to hold value ok. So im going to give it a go for a few years and it i havent made a penny ill sell some stuff before the next cylce (5d mk4?) comes out. Hope this doesnt make me crazy

 

[mreco99]

I earn the U.K average sallary, but i would consider it if it was packaged with a good lens at a price that made the lens discounted. It is a hobby for me, but im intending to take it seriously when I get a FF camera. I want to try and make money with the gear i buy. Not alot, just enough to justify the kit.

Dont you have a DSLR camera already? if not, i would suggest taking the cheaper route first, a 600d or 7D first, (or other manufacturer equivalent)
If you do have a DSLR already, you can be making money with that first also. If you cant sell images with a lesser DLSR, chances are a semi pro DSLR isnt going to help you.

 

[elflord]

Excellent topic, and really interesting picture is emerging here.
Looks like except hand full of professionals, some really crazy enthusiasts, may be some lawyers, dentists and yes neuroanatmist, nobody else can afford FF or in other words humble 35 mm format digital camera.
I really hope Canon, and others are not creating this elitist club with premeditation...
Good night everybody!

Price of entry to "full frame goodness" is quite a bit lower than the cost of a new 5D Mark II. If you're willing to go with film, the EOS 3 is about $300 now. It works with EOS mount lenses and has a good autofocus system. If you really want digital (no one really needs digital except possibly pros and only because they are competing with other pros who have digital) , used 5D classics sell for about $1000 or so -- about the price of a new 60D.

About the "elite club" -- it boils down to whether you want to take great photos, or crank out pictures on a tight schedule that meet the expectations of clients. For pros, the latter is important but for amateurs, it isn't . So pro equipment won't necessarily produce the best results (what it will do is produce quick gratification which is why everyone wants it)

If you really do want to turn pro, then you're looking at it as a business startup cost. The cost of a 5D Mark II looks expensive compared to discretionary income, but it is not expensive by the standards that you'd measure business startup costs.

 

[CJRodgers]

I have a nikon d90 with a couple of lens'. Well its my friends, but he gave me it about 2 years ago as he wasnt using it. Im always concious when im using it that its not really mine, so ive never tried to do anything professional with it. So i dont have lots of my own kit but i wouldnt say im a beginner. I want to work my way up to doing music vidoes and weddings stills or videos, and i much prefer the images from a canon to what i use now. Id buy a 5dmkii now if it werent for aliasing on video.


Your right i could try and sell images, but i didnt think there was much money in stock images?

 

[mreco99]

I have a nikon d90 with a couple of lens'. Well its my friends, but he gave me it about 2 years ago as he wasnt using it. Im always concious when im using it that its not really mine, so ive never tried to do anything professional with it. So i dont have lots of my own kit but i wouldnt say im a beginner. I want to work my way up to doing music vidoes and weddings stills or videos, and i much prefer the images from a canon to what i use now. Id buy a 5dmkii now if it werent for aliasing on video.


Your right i could try and sell images, but i didnt think there was much money in stock images?

Depends what you call 'much money' and how good you are and how much effort you want to put in. The scale goes from wealthy induviduals to people with expensive kit who couldnt scrap enough sales together for a Big Mac.
A D90 is more than enough to be able to sell images as stock. I do just fine with a 450D, on a part time basis, selling as a hobby.

 

[CJRodgers]

OK well ill definaltey look into selling as stock then. What do you think it the most apporpriate canon to invest in then? Maybe a 60D? I want to own my kit is the thing. Any recommendations on stock websites that are good to sell to if i have enough talent.

 

[photophreek]

The 5d3 at $2999 would be fine with me.

How each of us spend our money on what is a very personal decision. One post stated that spending this amount of money on a camera doesn't make sense to them and the poster would rather spend the money on going somewhere sunny. I chuckled when I read that, because I would not spend that amount of money on a vacation. Not saying that travelling is a waste of money, but that it is all relative.

 

[mreco99]

OK well ill definaltey look into selling as stock then. What do you think it the most apporpriate canon to invest in then? Maybe a 60D? I want to own my kit is the thing. Any recommendations on stock websites that are good to sell to if i have enough talent.

sent you a PM

 

[mreco99]

..... Id buy a 5dmkii now if it werent for aliasing on video.

You can get filters to deal with moire and anti aliasing.

 

[CJRodgers]

Is it software or hardware filters your talking about? I just seen pn phillip blooms blog a filter that gets rid of it pretty much but i dont know if its for sale yet?

Thanks

Craig

 

[mreco99]

Hardware filter, i just cant find the link right now, but looks impressive

 

[dgsphto]

No reason why it should be $2999.99. At it's launch, the 5Dmk2 was missing a lot of things and was way over priced in that sense. Canon just needs to include what it trimmed from the 5Dmk2 at that same price level.

Honestly, take the sensor and Image processing of 5Dmk2 and everything else from 7D and it should meet the needs of most people. Don't tell me that a 7D with it's sensor traded up for the one from 5Dmk2 with updated firmware should cost more that 7D cost + $300. The only other area for costs should be developing better metering system but Canon has been recovering that for the past couple of generations of DSLRs since 2006/2007 and, to me, have to deliver now without presenting it as an incremental cost to the consumers!

 

[Loswr]

Don't tell me that a 7D with it's sensor traded up for the one from 5Dmk2 with updated firmware should cost more that 7D cost + $300.

Just based on geometry, from a round silicon wafer (the source material for CMOS sensors) you can get around 5 times as many APS-C sensors as FF sensors, and due to the greater impact of random imperfections on a larger sensor, a lower percentage of FF sensors will pass QC. Based on just the sensor, I'd expect greater than just a $300 differential, all else being equal.

 

[dgsphto]

Don't tell me that a 7D with it's sensor traded up for the one from 5Dmk2 with updated firmware should cost more that 7D cost + $300.

Just based on geometry, from a round silicon wafer (the source material for CMOS sensors) you can get around 5 times as many APS-C sensors as FF sensors, and due to the greater impact of random imperfections on a larger sensor, a lower percentage of FF sensors will pass QC. Based on just the sensor, I'd expect greater than just a $300 differential, all else being equal.

Wikipedia lists the yields from a 8" wafer at 112 APS-C sensors to 30 FF sensors. So I am inclined to think that it's about 4:1 ratio after all things said and done.

The price to replace a sensor on a 5D is about $1K ball park. This is Canon's sale cost to the consumer.

Parts, especially consumer electronics, are marked up at a huge premium (about 50% to 60% margin of sale costs based on some readings in the past on the net), so I would think it would cost Canon to about $400 a piece, if that, to make it.

How much do you think it would cost Canon to make a APS-C sensor? $100 maybe (at the 1:4 ratio).