Problems with AF on birds @ R5

[SteveC]

on stationary birds i use center spot focus then go to animal eye it normally locks on the bire then the eye. buttons set AF on as center spot, * as eye. if it does not lock on i switch from spot to eye. sometimes when there is lots of other high contrast or berries this takes a few times. The AF can be tricked and is not perfect but there is nothing else that comes close. you can use manual but most of the time the AF locks on faster then i can and is more accurate. I have just learned to work with the quarks of the system. There is nothing else out there that is better or faster.

OT I know, but I set up my R5 this way, and liked it enough that I then tried setting up my RP the same way (well, it doesn't do ANIMAL eye focus, but it does do people). Basically, the * doesn't do anything at all on the RP. On the R5 it will enable eye focus while held down; you effectively switch modes depending on which button you are pressing. But the RP just ignores the * press.

 

[VegasCameraGuy]

I hope it works out so you don't feel as if your older lenses aren't reliable. A lot of photographers with expensive, legacy glass would hold off moving to mirrorless.

I wonder how the older lenses are working on the ef 1DXIII? What would it be specifically about the mirrorless AF system that doesn't work as well with the older glass?

Have you tried using a slower burst rate just to see if the lens needs time to keep up with the R5's focus system? That's just a brainstorm idea.

Did you try watching Michael the Maven't YouTube video on Birds in Flight to see if it might help.

 

[YuengLinger]

I very carefully rewatched the Whistling Wings video, and then saw this one too:

It starts out briefly a bit rough, but then he explains better than anybody else the "Setting the initial Servo AF position" options. For me, setting to option 1 along with using AF Case optioin 2 modified to have Tracking Sensitivity down to 0, and also setting "Switching tracked subjects" to 0 results in the best lock and fastest tracking response I've seen yet. On any camera ever! Amazing! Like some secret military weapon tech!

Summary: When Eye AF is engaged, for fast action involving people, I have AF Case 2 modified so that tracking is zero, and, on the next page of options, "Switching tracked subjects" also set to zero. Works great for me!

But when subject is really running and stopping and jumping, dodging, etc., I go with the "Expand AF area" and do my best using touch and drag to keep the subject framed properly. Otherwise, more consistent, predictable fast movement seems to be handled fine by tracking.

 

[XL+]

As someone wrote before, my problem had not be solved.
The CPS repair center told me, they had a few bodies with the same claim. But Caonon actually neglects this complaint. For them everything is correct. They adjusted a few thing. But again, CPS recommends using MK III version of the 600mm lens. There the AF is improved and the electronics work better together.

Tried it today... same problem. I´ll do sommodification like the videos adviced. I will see, if this makes it better.

 

[YuengLinger]

Another personal note about the AF Case options. I tried Case A (Auto) for a week, based on a wedding photographer's youtube video. (His name is Roberto Valenzuela.) I thought he knew enough about photographing people, but Case A (Auto) has been the least consistent, worst keeper rate for me. Not as good as the 5DIV, maybe a little better than the 5DIII. Just my own results.

 

[Methodical]

I have reprogramed the "*" button to be a single point AF. Whenever I am having issues with AF, I switch to the "*" button, aim at target, and then I switch back to AF-On which is set to eye-AF. By getting the subject is good initial focus, the Eye-AF can then take over.

A lot of us R5 shooters have figured out the multiple AF button customization trick real quick. It's a different animal than the DSLRs.

 

[Methodical]

The percentage of subjects in focus is about half of the shots , if the background is plain colured. If there is some "troubled background" like trees, grass, e.g., it drops to one quarter or less. This is just feeled, not counted.
Today, the service center wrote, they will check my R5 and the lenses. Canon recommends for good AF performance using Rf lenses - or with the long telephoto lenses Mark III versions. (600 III and 400 III).

Ask Canon are they going to supply those lenses?

 

[Aussie shooter]

A lot of us R5 shooters have figured out the multiple AF button customization trick real quick. It's a different animal than the DSLRs.

Its not entirely different to a dslr. I actually use double back button focus on my 7d2 with single point on the star button and zone on the AF-on button. Hoping the eye tracking on my r6 will improve things even further (when I get it)

 

[AlanF]

Its not entirely different to a dslr. I actually use double back button focus on my 7d2 with single point on the star button and zone on the AF-on button. Hoping the eye tracking on my r6 will improve things even further (when I get it)

If I remember correctly, Glenn Bartley in his review of the 90D complained that he couldn't do the double back button focus on it unlike with his 7DII. I would prefer the old fashioned mode dial you will be getting on the R6 as a I can switch modes in milliseconds using muscle memory, faster than I can on the more sophisticated R5 with its electronic system.

 

[Methodical]

If I remember correctly, Glenn Bartley in his review of the 90D complained that he couldn't do the double back button focus on it unlike with his 7DII. I would prefer the old fashioned mode dial you will be getting on the R6 as a I can switch modes in milliseconds using muscle memory, faster than I can on the more sophisticated R5 with its electronic system.

I use the M-fn button to switch modes, but first I limit the modes C1-C3 and M, so I am not scrolling through stuff I don't use and it's right there near the shutter button.

 

[Methodical]

Its not entirely different to a dslr. I actually use double back button focus on my 7d2 with single point on the star button and zone on the AF-on button. Hoping the eye tracking on my r6 will improve things even further (when I get it)

True, but it's a must have settings with the mirrorless R5 camera because the AF gets fooled a lot easier or doesn't always do what you want it too in certain settings than with the DSLRs, at least in my experience and based on others comments around the internet, and you have to have these alternate custom AF settings on the ready to compensate and adjust on the fly. Take note of all those these are my custom AF button settings for when AF does this or does. I don't recall ever seeing those comments with DSLRs (i.e. making this a different animal). This could be because most of us are using EF lenses adapted to the R5, but there are no RF option for the 600, in my case. Unlike these mirrorless cameras, the multiple AF customs settings was not a must have option on the 7D2 or any of my other DSLRs (1DX, 1D4, 1D3, 5D3, 5D2 and 50D), it was an option.

 

[AlanF]

I use the M-fn button to switch modes, but first I limit the modes C1-C3 and M, so I am not scrolling through stuff I don't use and it's right there near the shutter button.

That's a useful trick. The new mirrorless do have lots of customization possibilities. It actually makes them more difficult to use for the average person though for us photo geeks, more fun.

 

[Aussie shooter]

If I remember correctly, Glenn Bartley in his review of the 90D complained that he couldn't do the double back button focus on it unlike with his 7DII. I would prefer the old fashioned mode dial you will be getting on the R6 as a I can switch modes in milliseconds using muscle memory, faster than I can on the more sophisticated R5 with its electronic system.

Agreed. The extra dial on the R6 is one of the things that make it easier to accept the lack of megapickles. Having three dials on the body will also make it easier if I dont get the control ring adapter as i will still have a dedicated dial for exposure compensation when using auto-ISO

 

[wyotex43n]

There is some really great info on this thread. I would like to step back a bit and make sure I understand something about the R5 autofocus and ask a few questions.

I assume when you have it set to Tracking and animal eye detection that you are dependent on the camera finding the subject and autofocusing on it. Is there a way to help the camera acquire the subject focus earlier . Using my thumb on the back screen seems to be great for still subjects but not for something moving. Can you designate an specific area for it to start the hunt for a subject?

Also is the joystick always turned off when tracking is turned on? Is there a way to use it to select the object you want to track?

 

[Aussie shooter]

There is some really great info on this thread. I would like to step back a bit and make sure I understand something about the R5 autofocus and ask a few questions.

I assume when you have it set to Tracking and animal eye detection that you are dependent on the camera finding the subject and autofocusing on it. Is there a way to help the camera acquire the subject focus earlier . Using my thumb on the back screen seems to be great for still subjects but not for something moving. Can you designate an specific area for it to start the hunt for a subject?

Also is the joystick always turned off when tracking is turned on? Is there a way to use it to select the object you want to track?

Most of us seem to be using the dual Back button focus method. The AF-on button for eye AF with tracking and the star button as single point to aquire a subject the camera is having difficulty with after which you can switch buttons to the tracking if you need

 

[Jenzzel]

There is some really great info on this thread. I would like to step back a bit and make sure I understand something about the R5 autofocus and ask a few questions.

I assume when you have it set to Tracking and animal eye detection that you are dependent on the camera finding the subject and autofocusing on it. Is there a way to help the camera acquire the subject focus earlier . Using my thumb on the back screen seems to be great for still subjects but not for something moving. Can you designate an specific area for it to start the hunt for a subject?

Also is the joystick always turned off when tracking is turned on? Is there a way to use it to select the object you want to track?

I don't know what kind photography you do, but my friend Jan Wegener has some great info videos

Gr Jens

 

[wyotex43n]

Most of us seem to be using the dual Back button focus method. The AF-on button for eye AF with tracking and the star button as single point to aquire a subject the camera is having difficulty with after which you can switch buttons to the tracking if you need

I will give you a scenario.
I was on a creek shooting birds. Some swans were far upstream to my right. I noticed them begin to take off in my direction. I wanted to lock focus on them quickly as they came my way. I had the camera set in animal eye af. The swans were against a reed background to begin with. The R5 did not lock focus until they were almost parallel with me. Maybe the background was to complex or they were to far off. I am looking for a way to quickly tell the camera here is where I want it to begin focus. Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?

 

[Aussie shooter]

I will give you a scenario.
I was on a creek shooting birds. Some swans were far upstream to my right. I noticed them begin to take off in my direction. I wanted to lock focus on them quickly as they came my way. I had the camera set in animal eye af. The swans were against a reed background to begin with. The R5 did not lock focus until they were almost parallel with me. Maybe the background was to complex or they were to far off. I am looking for a way to quickly tell the camera here is where I want it to begin focus. Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?

Yes. There are two ways you can do it to improve things. One is by having the dual back button focus set up and the other is to go to the AF menu. Sub menu 5. And set the initial servo AF point for tracking to the centre and NOT on auto. It is not fool proof but it means the camera is only looking in the very centre of the frame for something to lock onto after which it will track it all around the frame. You just have to put the bird in the centre portion and then start the AF

 

[Jenzzel]

I will give you a scenario.
I was on a creek shooting birds. Some swans were far upstream to my right. I noticed them begin to take off in my direction. I wanted to lock focus on them quickly as they came my way. I had the camera set in animal eye af. The swans were against a reed background to begin with. The R5 did not lock focus until they were almost parallel with me. Maybe the background was to complex or they were to far off. I am looking for a way to quickly tell the camera here is where I want it to begin focus. Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?

Yes thats is the method I use, I have the AF-on set as single point and star button as animal eye AF. If ae-af is not needed I use the single point, and switch to ae-af if needed.
I

 

[docsmith]

Would the dual button help with this? Are you saying use a single point first and then switch to eye af?

Agreed with Jenzzel and Aussie. Set the initial servo point to something other than auto and have a second button program to something other than animal eye AF.

In my experience, the Animal Eye AF is very very good, but not magical. First, it needs the subject (eye) to be large enough for it to truly distinguish. With COVID, I am mostly shooting small birds and I am finding with the R5 and 500 f/4 II that within 30 ft (~10 m) it is very consistent and accurate, out to about 50 ft (~15 m) it is very hit and miss and even when it "hits" in terms of the blue box on eye, but the actual accuracy is inconsistent. Beyond 50 ft/15 m. It really is not useful and I switch to a different AF mode.

Larger animals are likely a different story. But, based on my experience, I wonder if size of the target in the frame is part of the issue that people are having. Even within 30 ft, I do find that it occasionally grabs the background, but then I use the single point AF to get it back on target and once back on target the eye AF is very good once again.