Review on the 5D4 low light vs 1Dx2 and 7D2

[Mikehit]

Glenn Bartley has done an excellent review of the 5D4 looking at its performance in low light in comparison to the 1Dx2 and 7D2, especially in focal-length limited situations for bird photography (that is, cropping all outputs to the same FOV).

http://www.glennbartley.com/Canon5DmarkIVSetupReviewandSettings.html

 

[Click]

Excellent review. Thanks for sharing.

 

[BeenThere]

Glenn Bartley has done an excellent review of the 5D4 looking at its performance in low light in comparison to the 1Dx2 and 7D2, especially in focal-length limited situations for bird photography (that is, cropping all outputs to the same FOV).

http://www.glennbartley.com/Canon5DmarkIVSetupReviewandSettings.html

Assumes that for whatever reason, you can't go with a longer telephoto lens on the FF camera. That assumption is often true when shooting small objects like birds. You are frequently maxed out with whatever telephoto equipment you have. Also using tele extenders in very low light just makes the ISO/shutter speed trade worse. So, in his situation, I agree with his assessment.

 

[Jack Douglas]

Glenn's needs are, as he says quite narrowly defined and I'd be surprised if many CR readers fit that category. Even though I'm possibly 80% birds I would hate to give up my FF wide angle capability and so forth. For three years I've been very happy with FF 300 X2 but I was well aware of noise creeping in when cropping and just accepted that and I also accepted that distant birds simply would not be shot (other than ID). However, I'm speaking primarily as a single camera guy.

And I can't afford to go to rain forests very often (actually maybe never).

Jack

 

[Mikehit]

I think it is more common than you would think, Jack.

A lot of wildlife shots need cropping (predators and very shy animals), outdoor sports in the fall and some scenic shots where you want to abstract some elements. And that is the only review have found that has specifically tackled the higher(er) ISO issues, and it shows that at higher ISOs the old rule applies - glass first :-\ .

 

[arthurbikemad]

I placed an order for a 7D2 after using my partners 1200D on my 500L, the reach is nice! Also detail shown even on the little 1200 was GREAT imo! I may well revisit the crop factor later on but for now I have made my choice, meantime if you want ultra lightweight the smaller bodies have something to offer on big whites I think.

1200D + 500L

 

[Jack Douglas]

I think it is more common than you would think, Jack.

A lot of wildlife shots need cropping (predators and very shy animals), outdoor sports in the fall and some scenic shots where you want to abstract some elements. And that is the only review have found that has specifically tackled the higher(er) ISO issues, and it shows that at higher ISOs the old rule applies - glass first :-\ .

Of course, that's just my guess. However, I know that we all would like more reach but at what cost and weight. You can't go wrong prioritizing good glass.

I see one indisputable advantage to a crop camera with a telephoto and that's the narrower view allows you to place a focus point more appropriately and to see your subject at the moment of shooting in more detail. As far as the actual reach advantage, I thought that subject had been beaten to death and crop proven to be an insignificant advantage, or is the jury still out?

Jack

 

[Mikehit]

I think it is more common than you would think, Jack.

A lot of wildlife shots need cropping (predators and very shy animals), outdoor sports in the fall and some scenic shots where you want to abstract some elements. And that is the only review have found that has specifically tackled the higher(er) ISO issues, and it shows that at higher ISOs the old rule applies - glass first :-\ .

Of course, that's just my guess. However, I know that we all would like more reach but at what cost and weight. You can't go wrong prioritizing good glass.

I see one indisputable advantage to a crop camera with a telephoto and that's the narrower view allows you to place a focus point more appropriately and to see your subject at the moment of shooting in more detail. As far as the actual reach advantage, I thought that subject had been beaten to death and crop proven to be an insignificant advantage, or is the jury still out?

Jack

I have seen a lot of discussion about the 'reach advantage' of the 7D2 but most of it has been discussions in good light. This was the first view I have seen where the writer has specifically addressed higher ISOs and how the quality of pixels overrides the number of pixels and it is at that point that the 7D2 definitely loses any telephoto advantage. From Glenn's article at ISO 1600 the 1Dx2 seems to be slightly better than the 7D2. The 5D4 is somewhere in between.
You are also right about the focus point placement and I am weighing that up with birds in flight where the narrow FOV on the 7D makes it harder to find the little critter in the first place.

 

[Otara]

Very good news for me as a 7D2 owner.

I also have a 6D so this helps decide me to finally give up on the 'one camera that will rule them all' fantasy I keep having.

 

[MJ]

...and the moral of the story is (yet again) any of these cams is quite capable.

 

[AlanF]

I use the 7DII, 5DIV and 5DS R. There are differences among these cameras.

AF; 5DIV is better than 5DS R, which is better than 7DII. This is both in terms of locking on and reproducibility of focus. I get keepers in that order.

Noise; the 5DS R is best because it needs less sharpening, at the expense of the occasional Moire. I find the 5DIV no better than the 5DS R in general, and both better than the 7DII, despite the comments in that review.

Field of view; the 5DS R wins out by having the reach of a crop and the FOV of FF.

Frame rate; the clear winner is the 7DII. But, like Art Morris, I tend not to fire the camera like a machine gun, but if I need to I will use the 7DII.

Narrower focus; the centre point focus is indeed best on the 7DII.

Quality of glass required; both my 300mm f2.8 II and 400mm DO II virtually max out with the 1.4xTC on the 7DII and 5DS as the hit on going to the 2xTC means that the sensor is beginning to out=resolve the lens. But, both those lenses resolve better with the 2xTC than the 1.4xTC on the 5DIV (and will do so on the 1DXII and 5DIII etc).

If you can't good results doing bird photography with all of these, find a new hobby.

 

[zim]

Interesting indeed (assuming it's not a flawed test in principle)

For me the 1Dx2 is not on the table so it's not so much that the 5D4 isn't way ahead of the 7D2 but rather that in that situation, which would be fairly extreme for me, IQ is basically a wash. For all the other types of photography I like to do the 5D4 would be better than the 7D therefore it is shaping up to be the better 'all rounder' for my needs. The only things the 7D2 has in it's favour is fps and cost.

Having said that in the feather comparisons I actually see the order as 1DX2, 7D2, 5D4 but it is very slight to my eyes. It would be interesting to see those files processed to their best through other raw convertors like DxO Optics Pro and C1

 

[LSXPhotog]

This account goes to prove what I already knew as a 7DII owner. The camera holds up very well and really only struggles in night shooting and very low light. I will often see people complaining about the camera's noise performance, which will have me going back to check where they're coming from with the complaint. Side-by-side with one of my full-frame cameras, it handles noise in a different way. It's certainly not 'as good' or on the same playing field by all noise measurements, but for sports shooting, it's on the money.

I'm the photographer for the NMRA/NMCA racing series and I toss around the idea of a 1DXII all the time. Then I just remember that I got the job using a 7D2 and 5D3...upgrading can wait. The full-frame look can't be denied as it gives images more of a three dimensional feeling versus the more flat looking photos of the 7D2 at the same settings. That's where the 5DIV comes in and helps out with its even better AF and 7fps...the 5D3 can't AF night racing at all and the 5DIV and 7DII stick on.

 

[AlanF]

I should also have mentioned one important point relevant to my usage. Currently, I am tending to use the 400mm DO II with TCs. The 400mm + 1.4xTC on the 7DII gives the same field of view and effective depth of field as the 400mm + 2xTC on the 5DIV. But, at f/5.6 on crop you get an extra stop of shutter speed or iso as f/8 on FF for the same effective resolution.

 

[AlanF]

I placed an order for a 7D2 after using my partners 1200D on my 500L, the reach is nice! Also detail shown even on the little 1200 was GREAT imo! I may well revisit the crop factor later on but for now I have made my choice, meantime if you want ultra lightweight the smaller bodies have something to offer on big whites I think.

1200D + 500L

It's seriously front focussing and you can't AFMA that ultra lite body.

 

[bluenoser1993]

The fact that the 5D IV is slightly better than the 7D II once equivalent crop is taken is all I need, I didn't expect it to be better. The 5D IV is better in most other situations, so there is no negative other than price. This comparison is great to see, and frankly I think it is pointing me towards waiting for the 6D II because of the price. Even though the 6D will most likely be lower res (rumoured 25MP), it should still be close to a wash with the 7D II. Really, I don't know why I'm fighting the idea of two bodies and get a current 6D, then have the high frame rate plus a FF to make some of my lenses shine they way they should, but a single body solution appeals to me.

 

[Jack Douglas]

The reality that may have to settle in is that the cameras have plateaued in certain respects and "better" photos will have to come from more creativity and planning. The masses have practically the same opportunity of producing a stunning photo as the guy with all the gear, if they are dedicated/motivated.

"Tim Laman spent three days using rope to climb up and down a tree in Indonesian Borneo, placing cameras at various angles to prepare for the return of an orangutan he knew would return to eat.
When the great ape came back, Laman shot the picture—and now, he is the grand-prize winner of the Wildlife Photographer of the Year competition."

http://www.timlaman.com/wildlife-diaries/world-press-photo-win/

 

[Big_Ant_TV_Media]

9H6A1277-1 by Big Ant TV Media LLC, on Flickr
9H6A1228-1 by Big Ant TV Media LLC, on Flickr
my 5d4 lowlight test 1st image is 5000 iso
and other image is 1600

 

[AlanF]

After many years of analysing data, I never believe anyhting until I repeat it. So, I downloaded the files of the feathers, processed the .CR2s with DPP with my usual fine settings, pasted a section from each into Photoshop, stretched them all to a similar size in order to compare. I get quite different results from what I expected from the article. The 7DII is far worse than the others. I don't what I did wrong to get this result.

 

[bholliman]

After many years of analysing data, I never believe anyhting until I repeat it. So, I downloaded the files of the feathers, processed the .CR2s with DPP with my usual fine settings, pasted a section from each into Photoshop, stretched them all to a similar size in order to compare. I get quite different results from what I expected from the article. The 7DII is far worse than the others. I don't what I did wrong to get this result.

Thanks Alan

The 5DIV shots are amazingly clean!