RF Mount APS-C camera coming second half of 2021 [CR2]

[Stig Nygaard]

But you usually don't shoot high FPS scenes at ISO 100. So you're loosing DR anyway, so that slightly reduced Bitrate should not translate to a real world disadvantage, right?

I not only sometimes shot action/sequences with 100 ISO, but my 7DII I have permanently set to highest framerate. When not shooting action/sequences, I'm usually bracketing where it too find it practical/best to shot at high framerate.

Unless you also set up a studio comparison with identical lighting conditions and settings to make your personal observations, any differences you see are hard to blame on the resolution differences.

As for white dots, that sounds odd. That's a type of noise I would expect for long exposures, or really hot conditions. As Michael pointed out, it may also be a technical difference.

I have 6 years experience with the 7DII. Never seen that kind of "dots" with my 7DII. I was shooting several sessions with the 90D over a couple of weeks, and the dots were consistent in high iso shots from all sessions. I don't need a studio-comparison on top of that to feel comfortable about making a conclusion for my kind of use. However as Michael points out, using other RAW conversion software than Adobe might make a difference. I don't know.

Anyway, as I see it, an R7 only makes sense if it can make the most out of long lenses. So it must have a sufficient pixel density to exceed the R5 and compete with the eventual R5's / R3 high MP FF body.

For me it's also a matter of price - and size+weight of normal and wideangle zooms. I'm never going to buy a camera priced like an R5, and don't want a bigger/heavier "casual/everyday kit" to carry around than I have now.

 

[Joules]

I have 6 years experience with the 7DII. Never seen that kind of "dots" with my 7DII. I was shooting several sessions with the 90D over a couple of weeks, and the dots were consistent in high iso shots from all sessions.

This has me interested. Would you mind sharing a shot that shows the phenomenon? And the situation it was taken under, if one would like to replicate it?

 

[Kit.]

Even at 12fps mechanical on R5, it costs you some bit depth. 6 fps is the highest mechanical speed for 14 bit RAW shooting on the R5.

Do you realize that 13 bits per pixel on a 40MP-ish sensor are about the same as 14 bits per pixel on a 20MP-ish sensor, when it comes to the actual luminous exposure information being passed?

 

[Stig Nygaard]

This has me interested. Would you mind sharing a shot that shows the phenomenon? And the situation it was taken under, if one would like to replicate it?

Handheld "nightshot" from an evening walk. Remember nothing special about the situation to mention.

https://flic.kr/p/2iS86HL
Virtually uncropped. Scaled down from 6960x4590 to 3880x2559 if you zoom into full size (So 10 megapixel-ish).
5000 ISO.

Some overall and shadow pushing in post, but nothing I haven't done often before:

CR exposure:
Overall +0.75 stop
Shadow +62 whatever-unit-it-is

Some noise reduction in both CR and PS:
CR noise:
NR 25
Detail 71
Color NR 25
PS noise:
17% NR in Smart Sharpening

I see the light dots/grains all over in shadows. Some more bright than others, but they annoy me. Look f.ex. around the standing bike or in lower part of blue sky.

 

[Joules]

Handheld "nightshot" from an evening walk. Remember nothing special about the situation to mention.

https://flic.kr/p/2iS86HL
Virtually uncropped. Scaled down from 6960x4590 to 3880x2559 if you zoom into full size (So 10 megapixel-ish).
5000 ISO.

Some overall and shadow pushing in post, but nothing I haven't done often before:

CR exposure:
Overall +0.75 stop
Shadow +62 whatever-unit-it-is

Some noise reduction in both CR and PS:
CR noise:
NR 25
Detail 71
Color NR 25
PS noise:
17% NR in Smart Sharpening

I see the light dots/grains all over in shadows. Some more bright than others, but they annoy me. Look f.ex. around the standing bike or in lower part of blue sky.

Thanks a lot for sharing.

You mention using Smart Sharpening. That is a deconvolution algorithm. Those are inherently prone to introducing noise and certain visual artifacts. The noise you point out looks like what I am getting sometimes when using Smart Sharpening. I would guess that on an image that already has pixel manipulating effects like sharpening, clarity and certain kinds of NR applied, this becomes more noticeable. That would both make sense and be in line with my limited experience with the tool.

In any case I am seeing similar results with my 24 MP 80D sometimes. You are claiming this is less of an issue with the 20 MP 7D II right? I am not sure what's the proper way to apply deconvolution to a noisy image when the intent is to also downscale it (for actual use or comparison with a lower resolution sensor). Deconvolution amplifies noise. But downsampling before deconvoluting seems counter intuitve and also may apply a form of sharpening in itself (Not desireable for deconvolution) depending on the algorithm.

Interesting point for sure. But nothing I can currently spend time on experimenting with.