The 5D Mark III Megapixel Count? [CR2]

[dswatson83]

I really hope Canon does not go high MP on this camera. This camera has typically been the great on the go shooter camera because it is lighter weight and less expensive price than the 1D series and has been embraced by the wedding/event shooters. We do not need 30MP...18-24 is MORE than enough. What we need is clean images at higher ISO. I hope canon treats this as the camera it is and keeps the quality features of the 1DX and looses the features that non studio photographers typically don't need/use like 61 Autofocus points, Ethernet out, 12fps shooting, 400,000 cycle shutter, and that advanced of exposure metering to save $$$.

I'd love to see the same 18mp sensor as the 1DX and iso range minus some of the ports with 5-7fps, 21 point auto focus w/9 cross type and the center diagonal/cross type (like the 1DX has). I don't need the most advanced metering (not a studio camera) but I would like a headphone out instead of the Ethernet port. 1080P video is fine though 1080p @60fps would be awesome. They should be able to intro that in the $3000 range.

 

[unfocused]

Differentiation is the hardest thing for me to get my head around.

Each new model must differentiate itself from the previous model. Hence the 5DIII has to be better than the 5DII.

At the same time, each new model must differentiate itself from other new models. Hence the 5DIII must be inferior to the 1DX.

Complicating factor: the DSLR customer base has matured and is not likely to expand rapidly. That means, manufacturers have to lean more heavily on current owners to upgrade, rather than simply hope they can expand the base by attracting new buyers.

Finally, there is the convergence and advancement of technology. The clearly definable differences between the top of the line and the bottom on the line keep getting compressed. You need to make sure your $500 DSLR takes pretty great pictures, but somehow, it has to be about $6,000 less great than your top of the line model. And, you've got to slot a whole range of models in between those two, when the reality is that you simply don't have enough differences in features to go around.

So what is Canon to do?

They only have about nine things to play with:

Sensor Size
Sensor Resolution
ISO Speed
Dynamic Range
Autofocus
Frame Rate
Weathersealing
Bell and Whistles (GPS/Infrared Trigger/Radio Trigger etc.)
Video

For the 5DIII vs. the 1DX they can't play with sensor size, leaving only the other eight.

My guess:
Leave the resolution a little above the 1Dx, but not too much (21-24 mp);
Leave the ISO Speed a little below the 1Dx (might need to be two stops less in order to add sufficient differentiation);
Some improvement in dynamic range/image quality but this can be relatively subjective and, since the current model is already really good, improvements here aren't going to be a big return on investment;
Autofocus. This is the weakest feature of the 5DII. I think it's a no-brainer that this will get better. Maybe it will get the 7D autofocus;
Frame rate. Not likely to go up much. They need to keep this low to avoid cannibalizing 1Dx sales;
Weathersealing. Same as frame rate. Some improvement possible, but probably only minimal. May not see any change at all;
Bells and Whistles. Some things could be added here that aren't that important to 1Dx owners. At the least, it is likely to be compatible with the 1Dx add ons.
Video. This is the $64,000 question in my mind. I think Canon was caught completely off-guard by the incredible popularity of the 5DII for video. 1Dx buyers are not video buyers and never will be, so Canon has the most flexibility here. I would not be surprised to see a number of improvements designed to make the 5DIII more appealing for low-budget video. This is the only segment of the market that has the chance for significant growth, and they are dominating that market. They won't want to give it up.

That's my two cents worth.

 

[Canon-F1]

one thing that always makes me laugh are people who write they will switch brands when company "XY" does not include feature "ZX" into a new product.

nobody will notice it in the end results and you immediately notice these people are more gearheads then photographer.

and really who cares if joe from utah decides to switch to nikon because he thinks he needs 36 MP to make good pictures? NOBODY! 8)

i am with neuro.... i don´t think the 36 MP for the nikon are written in stone.

 

[Peerke]

So what is Canon to do?

Just release an updated 5d and let people decide wether to buy and enjoy it or not.

If Canon would make the camera wished for by the gearheads, it will take only one day to make the gearheads comlain again.

I have a 40D and a 7D. The 7D because my wife started to like photography too and I liked the crop factor because sometimes I like to shoot small birds. I have my 10-22 for landscapes if I want and don't print large or sell copies of my pictures. I'm happy with what both camera's offer to me at this moment. Just a happy amature.

 

[DavidD]

Another vote for NO "AA" filter. Re: The 5D Mark III Megapixel Count? [CR2]

I like the rumors of a D800 without AA filter, I want a 5D3 without AA filter.

I'll second the motion to get a 5D3 without an AA filter.

I'm not happy that we all have intentional blurriness
in our RAW images caused by AA filters.

Professional RAW software can now eliminate the moire that
an Anti-Alias Filter is supposed to reduce. (and Desktop
computers have a lot more computing power than a camera)

And Yes, I do hope the 5d3 has at least 32 mp.

If it adds 2 or more stops in Dynamic range,
I'll buy it even if it only has 28 megapixels.

 

[CarebbianTraveler]

Re: Another vote for NO "AA" filter. Re: The 5D Mark III Megapixel Count? [CR2]

I like the rumors of a D800 without AA filter, I want a 5D3 without AA filter.

I'll second the motion to get a 5D3 without an AA filter.

I'm not happy that we all have intentional blurriness
in our RAW images caused by AA filters.

Professional RAW software can now eliminate the moire that
an Anti-Alias Filter is supposed to reduce. (and Desktop
computers have a lot more computing power than a camera)

And Yes, I do hope the 5d3 has at least 32 mp.

If it adds 2 or more stops in Dynamic range,
I'll buy it even if it only has 28 megapixels.

The lenses definitely have the resolution for that, as the 18MP sensors for APC-C are showing. The same pixel size would equal to 46MP on a full frame sensor. I would even like the idea of having a >100MP sensor that can out-resolv every lens. No need for a AA-filter anymore. The dynamic range of such a sensor wouldn't be bad at lower ISOs, but one trade-off would be high-ISO.

To be honest, I still love the pictures the 5d2 produces. It's still one of the best cameras out there.
And one thing that bothers me more than the sensor is the leak of weather sealing. I think, for this price segment it's absolutely mandatory.
So please Canon, add a weather sealing to the 5d3!

 

[zim]

leak of weather sealing

;D ;D ;D ;D

sorry

;D

 

[jonathan7007]

The analysis in "unfocused" post -- one page back -- is excellent.

I am a 5DMK2 user. It's very good. Could be better. I also liked the idea posed by another post that updating my aging 30D as a backup into a 7D as that backup (I shoot professionally) would give me, in combination, most of what the highest-end machinery offers. At events I'd have a body for the more frantic moments. In the studio, for real estate, architecture, etc., I continue with the 5DMK2. Tripody stuff.

So that's a danger for Canon in hoping we'll be upgraders to shake new cash out of our wallets. I'm off to look at the prices for used 7D bodies.

Excellent ideas tossed back and forth here. I will enjoy seeing how the story comes out when we reach March, April, whatever. I am somewhat impatient but the extra drama we all make adds to the fun. <grin>

jonathan7007

 

[CarebbianTraveler]

leak of weather sealing

;D ;D ;D ;D

sorry

;D

oops... wanted to write lack. thanks

 

[zim]

leak of weather sealing

;D ;D ;D ;D

sorry

;D

oops... wanted to write lack. thanks

no no +1 to you, thank you, just had a wee drinky and gave me a right good giggle I'll never describe weather proofing any other way now cheers! ;D

 

[Axilrod]

Wow so let me get this straight it will have 5fps, not even as much as the 50D and not quite enough to really be even a decent low-end compromise for action, it won't even have as many AF points as the 7D and it might just be 5D2 AF with the outer points no x-type wow big change for nearing a decade and it won't even bump up the MP so no increase in reach or detail.

So why again am I not just sticking with my 5D2 or for finally for the first time ever truly seriously eying Nikon?

Yeah it should have better video but so should any upcoming 70D or 7D2.

So what we spend another nearly $3000 to upgrade to outer x-points and 1 extra fps and better video and a touch cleaner image and this is our FF body for the next four years?

When Nikon appears ready to offer 6fps with grip, top of the line pro AF, better video, and 36MP?

The sad thing is Canon has had the tech to blow away the Nikon offerings but they care so much about not hurting themselves internally they don't care if they give away the ship in the process.

This is a rumor, not an announcement. And do you really think Canon would spend 3 years on the successor of one of their most celebrated cameras of all time for those few upgrades? Come on now, they're smarter than that.

 

[2likru]

Well here goes. This is my first post to this site but I have been a regular rumor reader for about a year now. I have some of my own ideals about Canon’s plans that I hope will maybe bring new life to the near dead 5dmklll rumor horse.

First I think that canon has no intentions of weather sealing the 5dmklll.

I also don't see it having 30+ mega pixels (nor the d800 for that matter).

No eye following auto focus but just maybe the 7d's amount of focus points and viewfinder LCD will make it. In fact I'm almost sure they will despite rumors saying otherwise.

5fps sounds about right to me and probably some improved video capability but I don't know enough about dslr video to even know what they could improve other than having a dedicated switch to change between video and stills.

I can't see Canon putting weather sealing in a full frame camera that needs to be as "cheap" as the 5d needs to be unless Nikon does it and they won't either, so your only hope for a low priced, full frame, and weather sealed camera is Sony (they have the sensor and no pro-body market to cannibalize). As far as the auto focus, I think the new 1d's system is probably far beyond the 7d's which frees the 7d system for use in the 5d. I know allot of current 5dll owners an even 5d owners who never upgraded will buy a 5dlll if it gets that auto focus and viewfinder LCD. I also know that people waiting for the 5dlll to be announced so they can get a used 5dll cheap will splurge on the new body instead for that auto focus, especially, if they currently own a 7d (you know a luxury once sampled bla bla bla) and Canon has to know this also.

If Canon does make a normal bodied, full frame, and weather sealed camera for photographers who want the durability of a 1d with the size and weight of the 5d, it will be a new line without the baggage of an existing market to alienate with the resulting high price tag. That mythical beast would get the updated eye follow focus and probably a price tag only slightly below the 1d cameras if not equal in price. It would probably take a hit in battery power as it would use a weaker battery to fit in the smaller body. It may be a reincarnation of the EOS 3 called 3d (but they might call it 1d lite or something stupid like that). I'm going off on a tangent but I think you get the point.

 

[Meh]

If 1080p requires an 8.3MP sensor, then 4K video requires a 33.2MP sensor.

It does?

 

[bvukich]

If 1080p requires an 8.3MP sensor, then 4K video requires a 33.2MP sensor.

1080P only requires a 2MP sensor.

 

[Blaze]

4K video has 4 times as much video data as 1080p (4K is approximately twice the width and height of 1080p).

If 1080p requires an 8.3MP sensor, then 4K video requires a 33.2MP sensor.

What?

1080p is 1920 x 1080 (~2.1 MP)

Full Aperture 4K is 4096 × 3112 (~12.7 MP).
QFHD is 3840 x 2160 (~8.3 MP).

Where are your numbers coming from?

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Why not use the AF from the 1Ds3?

Brian,

As I see it the only problem is that Canon need to maintain a "quality" gap between the 1D/1Ds and their "lower" offerings. Its not so much a cost issue as a perceived difference in the ranges.

Personally I'd love to see the 5D3 with the Eos-3 45 Eye-controlled AF points.

If their new 1DX AF can't fend off even the old 1D3 AF then they are really, really in serious trouble. THey over protect their 1 series to an absurd degree.

Give the 5D3 6.3 fps already, no serious sports pro will want less than 8 anyway but at least let it be usable generalist. Give it 1D2n, 1D3, 1D4 AF something. Come on already. Their attitude absolutely stinks the last 5 years compared to Nikon's.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The most consistent mention is March for an announcement.

I've said before - I believe Canon will announce something at the beginning of March to mark the 25th anniversary of the EOS system.

The 5DIII and the 4k DSLR would both be good candidates for a March announcement.

If Canon does stick with 21 to 22 MP, it will be necessary to find some other enhancements over the 5DII that make for a significant upgrade. - One or two more stops of high ISO performance alone will not be enough to convince most users. Canon will need a whole bag of improvements.

Exactly.

If the rumors so far about the 5D3 have any bearing, it's be a joke of a 25th celebration for the EOS line. What as one of the most innovative and push it forward lines ever turned into a crippled mess led by a paranoid marketing team with the engineers cowering in the corner.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The 5DIII and the 4k DSLR would both be good candidates for a March announcement.

If Canon does stick with 21 to 22 MP, it will be necessary to find some other enhancements over the 5DII that make for a significant upgrade. - One or two more stops of high ISO performance alone will not be enough to convince most users. Canon will need a whole bag of improvements.

and what enhancement would 10-15 MP more bring?
that diffraction limitation would raise it´s ugly head earlyer?

im all for dynamic range enhancements, canon can stick to 21-24 MP if they ask me.

As I said the MP count has precious little to do with fixing up DR, simply reducing the count won't do anything if they don't fix up the ADC system. All it will mean is less effective reach when you are distance limited and less detail in general (also less HD space eaten up too, granted).

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

The talk about the 5DIII keeping the MP the same is fantastic. That means there's an even greater chance that their upsell over the 5DII is going to be AF and weather sealing. One can only hope. GPS built into the body would be nice, but fat chance of that I reckon.

Yeah, hopefully the other rumors are fake (the ones where the best scenario is 5 fps and typical is 3-4fps and the best AF scenario is slightly crippled 7D AF and the worst is well let us not speak of it. If they souped up the rest of the specs to a sizable degree I'd live with the 18-21MP even if I'd ideally prefer more.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

It's likely they can promise a 2-stop improvement in ISO noise (jpg, of course) just based on gapless microlenses and Digic5. They'll have to do more than that, I think. My contention is that they will offer improvements, but still maintain differentiation from the 1D X (better than they did with 5DII/1DsIII). So, if it's a 21-24 MP camera, they can bump the AF up a bit (a bit under the 7D), and they'll keep the frame rate low. If it's 30+ MP, less of an AF bump (or none) and an even lower frame rate.

They appear to be heading that way, but I have to say I won't bite. And I think it'll create quite an uproar in the forums.