The Canon EOS R5 Mark II coming in Q2, 2023? [CR2]

[davidhfe]

What is the readout time of the A7RV? All I could find is a comment that it is 4x longer than the R5 - is that correct? I know the A7RIV is 62.5ms compared with 15.5ms of the R5.

Edit: found a reference that the readout speed of the A7R5 is up to twice that of the A7RIV, so it's still at least 2x slower than the R5 and with about twice the rolling shutter https://sparrowsnews.com/2022/05/22/sony-a7r5-full-specifications-leaked/

I could be mistaken but I believe all the the speed improvements of the mk5 come from the increased processing power. So they were able to get more fps due to that, but the sensor's actual scan rate in ms hasn't improved. Subjectively, the reviews almost universally mention it as one of the (few) downsides of the camera.

 

[Kit.]

I've the same button set up. It's ideal as its easy to switch one method is not working well.

How do you do AE lock then?

(I have switched the * button to AE lock trigger instead of its default AE lock hold)

 

[AlanF]

Same sensor, same readout. And I'm definitely being snarky here, the A7R4/5 sensor is great. Leading resolution, BSI means it's still got great DR. But you're paying a lot in terms of frames per second and rolling shutter for that 40% resolution advantage over the R5.

The Sony AR7V has 33% more pixels than the R5, and resolution increases with the square root of of the number of pixels, which means only a 15.5% increase in resolution over the R5 (or look upon it as 3.8µ vs 4.39µ pixels).

 

[David - Sydney]

How do you do AE lock then?

(I have switched the * button to AE lock trigger instead of its default AE lock hold)

I use the Set button to center the AF point rather than assign the AE button.

 

[StefanoEsse]

I imagine he's thinking new buyers and upgraders from other models like the R6. If the R5II arrives next year and has only marginal improvements, I would agree. That's why I would prefer the traditional four-year cycle, which presumably would mean more significant improvements. I'm interested in the 61mp sensor but the only feature improvement that I really want is something like quad pixel autofocus that would improve the camera's less than stellar acquisition of targets in the field.

I agree. I'm an R6 user, still waiting for a better sensor than R5, while also using my 5D IV for still photography whenever smart AF is not useful. The newcoming R5II would be the logical choice.

 

[koenkooi]

I imagine he's thinking new buyers and upgraders from other models like the R6. If the R5II arrives next year and has only marginal improvements, I would agree. That's why I would prefer the traditional four-year cycle, which presumably would mean more significant improvements. I'm interested in the 61mp sensor but the only feature improvement that I really want is something like quad pixel autofocus that would improve the camera's less than stellar acquisition of targets in the field.

Suppose the R5II will keep 45MP, but the readout will be massively faster, so less rolling shutter and a much improved AF. Would you prefer than over a 61MP sensor that otherwise has the same performance as the R5 sensor, including AF? In both situations you'll get all the new AF software goodies from the R3/R7/R6II.

 

[AlanF]

I agree. I'm an R6 user, still waiting for a better sensor than R5, while also using my 5D IV for still photography whenever smart AF is not useful. The newcoming R5II would be the logical choice.

What are you looking for in an R5 II sensor? The current R5 sensor has a readout speed for 45 Mpx that is 25% faster than for the 20 Mpx of the R6 and about the same as for the R6 II, has marginally better DR than the R6 and significantly better than the 5DIV. Its IQ is better than the 5DIV. Canon made dramatic leaps forward with its R3 and R5 sensors over its existing ones.

 

[[email protected]]

It's wild to see the exact same comments about this rumor when compared to the original EOS R5 rumor.

Good observation. I was one of those people poo-pooing the notion that the R5 rumors could be true, given Canon's history.

That said, I have a little bit more poo-pooing left. Specifically, it's been an extremely consistent pattern that when Canon releases a camera that blows away expectations (like the 6D, 1Dx, 7D II, 5DSr, etc.) the follow-on revision fails to meet the raised expectations that develop, or no follow-on version comes at all.

I expect the R5 II will come in Q2 2024 (because that's the periodicity of the 5 series), and it'll have half the improvements of this list just to make sure we have adequate disappointment.

There, now I can be wrong-as-usual and happy.

 

[unfocused]

Suppose the R5II will keep 45MP, but the readout will be massively faster, so less rolling shutter and a much improved AF. Would you prefer than over a 61MP sensor that otherwise has the same performance as the R5 sensor, including AF? In both situations you'll get all the new AF software goodies from the R3/R7/R6II.

That really wouldn’t interest me. I’ve never had a problem with rolling shutter. If the autofocus is no better than the R3 - which I own- that’s not a noticeable difference. For me , I’d rather wait a year and see noticiable improvements in multiple areas than just one or two marginal changes.

 

[AlanF]

Good observation. I was one of those people poo-pooing the notion that the R5 rumors could be true, given Canon's history.

That said, I have a little bit more poo-pooing left.

This side of the Atlantic, poo-poo is baby talk for excrement while pooh-pooh means dismissing an argument as fallacious.

 

[HeavyPiper]

I'm very happy with my R5. I'm still in the learning mode as I finally got mine. It blows my 6D Mark II away in my opinion, now I'm looking forward to replace my Mac Book next year. Just my two cents.

 

[justsomedude]

I'm sure that the A7Rv is a good camera. Switching costs would be high - at least for me.
I would estimate that the R5 would be the natural competitor coming from the 5Div (like me) so I am interested in your decision making process.

I don't get your mirrorless transition comment as the R5 came out 2.5 years ago so more than enough time for things to settle down and firmware/feature upgrades to be released. The R came out 4 years ago. It seems that you have waited for a very long time to move from DLSR
In many ways, it seems that Sony have caught up with the R5 but it is mid way through its lifecycle.
I don't buy the 3rd party lenses argument. They haven't banned EF 3rd party lenses and they work better on R5 vs 5Div. The sheer number of EF/EF-S and RF lenses available might not be quite the Sony ecosystem but hard to say that it is a major impediment.

The A7Rv has
- slightly more linear resolution but has the same resolution as the A7Riv
- a nice tilty/swivel rear LCD
- Faster wifi and longer battery life
- A higher resolution EVF but the devil is in the detail for reduced resolution in different modes
- First Sony with focus bracketing but R5 already had it
- Type A cards which have small capacity and are expensive
- Full HDMI port
- New menus and touch screen!
- Finally closes the shutter when changing lenses

The R5 has
- faster raw shooting and electronic shutter (20fps)
- focus points across all of the frame
- raw DCI 8k/30 video vs UHD 8k/25 with crop using codecs.
- Rolling shutter is significant
- top LCD screen
- Arguably better ergonomics especially for people with larger hands

Honestly, I have no dog in the "brand wars" fight from a quality or performance perspective. If you're spending $1999 or more on a camera body these days, you're going to get phenomenal results no matter what brand you go with (so long as you have a modicum of creativity and even a basic understanding of photography). It's pretty hard to suck at photography in this day and age, and that's great for consumers across the board. ALL of the products these companies are pumping out are mind-blowing.

For me, it simply comes down to how the manufacturers are handling themselves and treating me as a customer. Look at my account age - I've been around here since 2011. Most of that time has literally been piles of posts from people hmmm-ing and haw-ing about, "I think Canon will catch up to Sony - should I wait another year or buy now??!" or "Canon will leapfrom the XYZ body - just wait a year or two - it's coming guuuuys - for reeeaaalz!"

Waiting. Waiting. And more waiting.

The general vibe in the marketplace (in my opinion) just seems to be that Canon is following along in the advancement of mirrorless. We were all on the edge of our seats when the EOS M came out, thinking it was going to be some grand foray into Canon's mirrorless play... but the R5 didn't come until 8 years later.

EIGHT. YEARS.

WTF?

And while I also have 10s of thousands tied up in EF glass, and the transition will be painful from a dollar perspective, I'm just tired of being Canon's sucker/fool (and I also hate using adapters).

**** For me, my position is simple... Sony seems to be giving customers exactly what they want, when they want it. Canon seems to be giving customers what they want, after Sony (or whoever) has already tested the market. And that's just not a system/brand I want to be part of. Silly? Probably. But I'm getting older and cranky, so it is what it is.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me with 47 "wait just one more year!" rumors so I stay locked into your brand longer, shame on me.

I don't hate Canon. Actually, I really love them. And think they make great products. I just really miss the constantly-leapfrogging-the-competition Canon of yester-year. The Canon that took great risks and put out wild/innovative products without fear, just because they could. And hey, they may take up that mantle again some day, and be the leaders once again. But for now, it's clearly not their time. I'll be keeping an eye on them in the years that come, and who knows, I might switch back someday.

But for now, I just want to be where I feel like a company is giving me exactly what I want, when I want it. Not, "please wait - it'll be coming in 2, 3, or 4 years... maybe."

That's it, that's all. Still love ya'll... and Canon.

 

[usern4cr]

This R5 owner has been waiting for a looooooong time for the R5 II to be introduced. So I'll be happy with whatever improvments they include in it.

A brief list of things I'd love to be available:
1) A trade-in offer for R5 owners. (otherwise, I wonder what my used R5 would get?)
2) Add "Aperture-Bracketing" to it (and upgrade the R5 firmware with it).
3) Add GPS, which can be in a battery saving mode, too.
4) More resolution & faster EVF (getting closer to no-delay viewing). (looks like this is coming)
5) If BSI sensor allows improvements over current FSI then I'll be happy to have it.
6) I'd prefer 2 fast SSD cards, but would tolerate the existing 1 fast & 1 slow one.
7) I'm happy with 45 to 60 MP (or so) sensor. I'd rather not have a lot more (like 100M).

It may be a long time coming, but I just put my name on the "list" for the R5 II from my local camera store. If I'm lucky (like with my R5), I might get one when they come out.

 

[StefanoEsse]

What are you looking for in an R5 II sensor? The current R5 sensor has a readout speed for 45 Mpx that is 25% faster than for the 20 Mpx of the R6 and about the same as for the R6 II, has marginally better DR than the R6 and significantly better than the 5DIV. Its IQ is better than the 5DIV. Canon made dramatic leaps forward with its R3 and R5 sensors over its existing ones.

I agree with you, but I was not in hurry in replacing 5DIV (sturdy and capable camera, simpler to use for my EF lenses, like the TS-E 24 II), while I really needed a small resolution, fast AF and high ISO capable camera like R6, for instance for shooting my several grandchildren, often scattering all around inside some family house, with some terrible lighting. A sensor of more than 20 MP would a waste, and (if I am not mistaken) the crop mode of a R5 would be a little less (around 17 MP) but with a change of the angle of view, that I don't like at all. If the R5II will have a better sensor, at the level of a Leica M11 or other interesting feautures for stills, I'll consider the new camera, otherwise, I'll happily buy the R5 for my urban ladscape works.

 

[kylerlueck]

I just bought the R6 a couple months ago realizing 20MP isn't enough for me. The shots are great, but with social media already compressing files, the resolution is just small enough to make the compressed images a bit pixelated if not shot perfectly and cropped. I'd even go as far as to say the same thing about the R's 30MP sensor not holding enough detail for my liking. 45MP seems to be the sweet spot nowadays. With the way technology is headed, the upcoming R5 Mark II would last me more than enough time until I'd have to upgrade again. Question is... how much do you think this camera is going to be considering the newly released R6 Mark II wasn't that far off from the R6's original price point?

 

[davidhfe]

I just bought the R6 a couple months ago realizing 20MP isn't enough for me. The shots are great, but with social media already compressing files, the resolution is just small enough to make the compressed images pixelated if not shot perfectly and cropped. I'd even go as far as to say the same thing about the R's 30MP sensor. 45MP seems to be the sweet spot nowadays. With the way technology is headed, the upcoming R5 Mark II would last me more than enough time until I'd have to upgrade again. Question is... how much do you think this camera is going to be considering the newly released R6 Mark II wasn't that far off from the R6's original price point?

I am seriously curious what social media you’re posting on. A 20mp raw file should have plenty of latitude for editing and cropping for instagram, twitter or facebook.

(And I’d expect an R5mk2 to hit at exactly the same price as the Mk1)

 

[kylerlueck]

I am seriously curious what social media you’re posting on. A 20mp raw file should have plenty of latitude for editing and cropping for instagram, twitter or facebook.

(And I’d expect an R5mk2 to hit at exactly the same price as the Mk1)

I'm posting on Facebook and Instagram. They still look good, but I've realized after viewing other samples of people who shoot with the R5, their photos hold more detail even though most photos will get compressed through social media. I've noticed this even with the new iPhones. I'd choose a mirrorless camera over an iPhone any day of the week, but the quality itself seen in the detail of 45MP cameras seems to hold up nicely with Instagram and Facebook. Not sure if anyone else agrees. Just something I picked up on.

And thanks, good to know regarding the price point. Hopefully, that ends up being the case!

 

[cayenne]

I think there are a lot more 5DIII and 5DIV owners out there than R5 owners, and they are the primary target market.

Yep..I would be in that group as a 5D3 owner.
I rarely jump in on first versions of things....some times, but usually I wait till a .2 or so version.

With everything that came in the R5, and I am one that DOES love video too....I was apprehensive jumping in on this first batch.
And with wind a R52 might be on the way as soon as next year....I'm definitely waiting.

IN the intermediate years, I've gone to experimenting with medium format film....monochrome sensor digital cameras, even digital MF.....and so I'd not felt compelled to replace the 5D3. But now, I'm wanting to not only get into it....but also have a regular FF color mirrorless camera I can experiment with adapting my growing collection of vintage glass.

I'm hoping to get to shooting concerts again and that R5 platform will be great for that...not used to having a camera lock onto an eye that's really moving around and keep in focus...should be fun.

But anyway, this is the long winded way of saying, yep...I'm in this group you're talking about.

cayenne

 

[Dragon]

I'm posting on Facebook and Instagram. They still look good, but I've realized after viewing other samples of people who shoot with the R5, their photos hold more detail even though most photos will get compressed through social media. I've noticed this even with the new iPhones. I'd choose a mirrorless camera over an iPhone any day of the week, but the quality itself seen in the detail of 45MP cameras seems to hold up nicely with Instagram and Facebook. Not sure if anyone else agrees. Just something I picked up on.

And thanks, good to know regarding the price point. Hopefully, that ends up being the case!

Not sure what you are seeing on FB as FB scales all photos to no more than 2k in the longest dimension (not to mention compressing the heck out of it). That is 4 MP max, so very hard to see how a 45 MP original would look different from a 20 MP original (or even a 10 MP original) based on resolution. If a camera (or the photographer ) does a better job of capturing toning or has a significantly better S/N, I can see that coming through, but not basic resolution. Not much to be gained beyond 2:1 oversampling.

 

[kylerlueck]

Not sure what you are seeing on FB as FB scales all photos to no more than 2k in the longest dimension (not to mention compressing the heck out of it). That is 4 MP max, so very hard to see how a 45 MP original would look different from a 20 MP original (or even a 10 MP original) based on resolution. If a camera (or the photographer ) does a better job of capturing toning or has a significantly better S/N, I can see that coming through, but not basic resolution. Not much to be gained beyond 2:1 oversampling.

I gotta say the overall quality on FB is better than Instagram, but there's something about 45MP or above that gives the image a sort of 3D effect on both platforms. The details captured in an image are partly due to resolution, are they not? The images look great on my phone, no complaints there, but it's the compression that's bothering me a little bit after they're posted on social media. Again, there isn't a huge difference, but just enough where I see details getting lost with compression. Wondering if someone who's had experience with both the R6 and R5 noticed a difference?