The day of the anti-climatic announcement

[Maiaibing]

This would instantly kill 99% of the trolling, fantasy, and worthless chatter on the subject. But someone with legitimate testing and insight could start an interesting conversation grounded in reality.

Sadly, it would not. Since the most of baseless claims backed by neither samples or other supporting evidence - even if asked for - comes from the people that refuse to let facts be an important part of the discussions here. And that includes the I-will-blindly-claim-the-superiority-of-Canon-in-the-face-of-any-facts crowd which is (unsurprisingly) in the majority here at CR.

However, I find it really funny, that you intuitively think that only claims of Canon sensor tech being inferior constitutes "trolling" and would need to be censored...

 

[Canonicon]

Be careful. Saying things like that on these forums is likely to brine the Ire of the Canonites down upon you. ;P

Ire? No. But at this point I would like to see a new forum rule. Before complaining about a Canon sensor vs. any other sensor on the market, one must post RAW files in accordance with the following:

* Scene must be real world and not a contrived test scene.

* Both cameras must be shot at the same time under the same lighting conditions.

* Exposure must be optimal and correct for each sensor (which means it may or may not be the same for each sensor).

* Any converted examples (JPEGs) for forum display must include at least one pair where standard RAW converter settings are applied to each, and this pair must clearly illustrate the issue being complained about.

* The RAW files with full EXIF must be provided for download so that others may offer corrections and advice.

* Failure to comply results in either a locked thread with the reason given (i.e. "This is thread is locked because the author underexposed a black cat in a coal mine and then pushed the exposure 5+ stops in ACR with no NR"), or a deleted thread with a warning to the offender. Repeated attempts? Ban.

This would instantly kill 99% of the trolling, fantasy, and worthless chatter on the subject. But someone with legitimate testing and insight could start an interesting conversation grounded in reality.

Was done a thousand times on the web already.
Result was that canon sensors are not able to push shadows as far as Sony/Nikon sensors and DR is 1 generation behind.

But then something else was wrong that made the Canon sensor not perform at it´s best.

Fort example the T-shirt from the photographer was not pink or saturn was in the wrong position.

 

[x-vision]

at this point I would like to see a new forum rule.

...

* Failure to comply results in ... Ban.

OMG, you are the Canon police. I knew it 8).

 

[x-vision]

the fact of the matter is, a 7DII with an improved AF, higher FPS and a sensor similar to the 70D is a disappointment.
not because the specs are so terrible or it's not a significant upgrade but because it took so long to be announced. This camera could have been announced a year or two ago and wouldn't have been shocking.
At this point, people perceive Canon's sensor performance as stagnating. It was hoped that the 7DII would be the camera to change this. With a sensor similar to previous models it reinforces the notion that Canon has not been able to significantly improve upon sensor performance. This is Canon's own fault for releasing so many 18mp sensor cameras and then the rather uninspiring 70D.
Back to my original point, all of these missteps would be less annoying if the 7DII had been announced a year or two ago. But by slowly drawing it out and building hype and excitement they have set themselves up for disappointment from people who already own similar products from the past and want something newer feeling.

+1000

Just to clarify, though: the hype was created by us, Canon users - not by Canon.

But on the other hand, I don't think the expectations of Canon uses have been unreasonable.

Over the years, the DxO overall scores for Nikon crop cameras have improved from 61 (D80) to 83 (D7100).
For the same period of time, Canon has improved from 62 (20D) to 68 (70D).
So, it's a 21-point improvement for Nikon vs 6 points for Canon (and it's the exact same story for FF cameras as well).

So, when the 7DII scores 69 at DxO, should I be disappointed - or am I supposed to cheer ??
Is it that unreasonable for Canon users to want to a more sizable improvement ??

 

[Canonicon]

So, when the 7DII scores 69 at DxO, should I be disappointed - or am I supposed to cheer ??
Is it that unreasonable for Canon users to want to a more sizable improvement ??

Let us be happy when it is not a drop... like the drop from the 550D to 600D. :

 

[Loswr]

At this point, people perceive Canon's sensor performance as stagnating.

No doubt people do. Just not enough people to affect market share.

It was hoped that the 7DII would be the camera to change this.

Hoped by some people on the Internet, yes. The majority of camera buyers don't really care.

Back to my original point, all of these missteps would be less annoying if the 7DII had been announced a year or two ago. But by slowly drawing it out and building hype and excitement they have set themselves up for disappointment from people who already own similar products from the past and want something newer feeling.

What missteps? 18 months ago, the 7D was still selling very well. The 70D took a big bite out of that (unsurprisingly). Canon then dropped the price to boost 7D sales (which it did), and made even more profit.

You're quite welcome to be disappointed in the 7DII/X. Somehow : it will be an extremely popular camera despite your feelings on the matter.

 

[dtaylor]

Would you (or others you believe would ascribe to this philosophy) also be willing to supply said raw files from your new 7D2, 5D4, or whatever comes along, shot as required with a lens cap on, in a totally darkened environment

Real world scene...properly exposed..."lens cap on, totally darkened environment."

Wow. Just...wow ;D

 

[Canonicon]

You're quite welcome to be disappointed in the 7DII/X. Somehow : it will be an extremely popular camera despite your feelings on the matter.

wind repeat... wind repeat.... wind repeat. ;D

You are happy Canon is making well selling, solid but mediocre products that lack the wow factor... others not.

They will never care if Canon makes a profit that way and you will never stop wasting your time repeating the same stuff. ;D

 

[dtaylor]

However, I find it really funny, that you intuitively think that only claims of Canon sensor tech being inferior constitutes "trolling" and would need to be censored...

You see a lot of threads being started by Canon fans claiming Exmor sucks or something??? ???

 

[Canonicon]

You see a lot of threads being started by Canon fans claiming Exmor sucks or something??? ???

No of course not, why should they lie?

 

[dtaylor]

Was done a thousand times on the web already.

What's up with people and reading comprehension today??? ???

I'm aware of two, and both violated this (at least): * Any converted examples (JPEGs) for forum display must include at least one pair where standard RAW converter settings are applied to each, and this pair must clearly illustrate the issue being complained about.

Turning all NR off is NOT standard.

 

[Canonicon]

Was done a thousand times on the web already.

What's up with people and reading comprehension today??? ???

I'm aware of two, and both violated this (at least): * Any converted examples (JPEGs) for forum display must include at least one pair where standard RAW converter settings are applied to each, and this pair must clearly illustrate the issue being complained about.

Turning all NR off is NOT standard.

Yeah yeah whatever makes you sleep better.
But what about the T-shirt? Has it to be pink or is rose ok too?

Canon sensors are as good as Sonys.. everyone is wrong except Canon fanboys.

 

[dtaylor]

at this point I would like to see a new forum rule.

...

* Failure to comply results in ... Ban.

OMG, you are the Canon police. I knew it 8).

Now where did my badge go...??? ;D

Over the years, the DxO overall scores for Nikon crop cameras have improved from 61 (D80) to 83 (D7100).
For the same period of time, Canon has improved from 62 (20D) to 68 (70D).
So, it's a 21-point improvement for Nikon vs 6 points for Canon (and it's the exact same story for FF cameras as well).

Quoting DxO should be an automatic lifetime ban for anyone on any forum at any time ;D

You know what? Same for Tony Northrup.

Pretty harsh considering I would only give verbal warnings for quoting Ken Rockwell ;D ;D ;D

 

[Canonicon]

at this point I would like to see a new forum rule.

...

* Failure to comply results in ... Ban.

OMG, you are the Canon police. I knew it 8).

Now where did my badge go...??? ;D

Over the years, the DxO overall scores for Nikon crop cameras have improved from 61 (D80) to 83 (D7100).
For the same period of time, Canon has improved from 62 (20D) to 68 (70D).
So, it's a 21-point improvement for Nikon vs 6 points for Canon (and it's the exact same story for FF cameras as well).

Quoting DxO should be an automatic lifetime ban for anyone on any forum at any time ;D

You know what? Same for Tony Northrup.

Pretty harsh considering I would only give verbal warnings for quoting Ken Rockwell ;D ;D ;D

Or maybe you should be banned?
Just so.. because i think that´s ok?

 

[dtaylor]

You see a lot of threads being started by Canon fans claiming Exmor sucks or something??? ???

No of course not, why should they lie?

Check overhead...the point just flew by ;D

This board has a problem with people hijacking every popular thread to discuss Exmor shadow noise. The requirements for reasonable real world examples would a) chill all the extravagant claims and fantasy on the topic, and b) force the trolls to do some work meaning they would stop hijacking every thread.

 

[dtaylor]

Yeah yeah whatever makes you sleep better.

Horse laugh.

But what about the T-shirt? Has it to be pink or is rose ok too?

Smokescreen.

Canon sensors are as good as Sonys.. everyone is wrong except Canon fanboys.

Straw men. (Nobody has ever claimed either.)

And you wonder why I made that post :

 

[Canonicon]

You see a lot of threads being started by Canon fans claiming Exmor sucks or something??? ???

No of course not, why should they lie?

Check overhead...the point just flew by ;D

This board has a problem with people hijacking every popular thread to discuss Exmor shadow noise.

When people want to talk about it who are you to tell them not to?
Who says it´s a problem?

Ok when it´s every thread then there is maybe a little problem.
But i doubt it is every thread. In threads about Camera bodys i think it´s ok.

I am Canon user and i want to talk about it!

If you don´t, ignore the threads or postings.
It´s simple. I do it all the time with other topics.

And as Neuro would say "it´s ok when people are interested in it. even when you don´t like it".

 

[dtaylor]

Or maybe you should be banned?
Just so.. because i think that´s ok?

Maybe you could get a sense of humor?

 

[Canonicon]

Or maybe you should be banned?
Just so.. because i think that´s ok?

Maybe you could get a sense of humor?

Oh i have but i expect other to see it without using smileys.

 

[dtaylor]

When people want to talk about it who are you to tell them not to?

I never said you shouldn't be able to talk about it.

Ok when it´s every thread then there is maybe a little problem.

Exactly ;D

I am Canon user and i want to talk about it!

Question: does this mean you would like to discuss real world differences and therefore could produce RAW files as I described? Or does it mean you want a 100 page thread where people talk talk talk about imagined differences or differences never seen in the real world?