There was a topic here a little while ago, however it seems to have been deleted. It reiterated a growing theme that I've been observing here since I joined, and in larger scope across the net in general. I think is high time the highly vocal opinions of the Pro-ISO Anti-MP crowd be re'butted. As someone who understands the value of BOTH improvements to ISO and continued increases to MP, and is sick and tired of getting beaten down (and seeing others beaten down) by the ISO crowd, here is my reply to that deleted topic, as it was directed at the ISO crowd in general:
First off, I hear the term "bragging" thrown around a lot by people who seem to abhor continued increases in MP count. That term is completely inappropriate, and entirely unwarranted. I can't recall the last time I ever actually heard ANYONE brag about ANY of their gear. I've never once encountered a professional photographer who "laughed" at my gear, inwardly or otherwise. At worst, I've had some very enlightening debates about the merit of large format film (i.e. Velvia 50 4x5) and drum scans over digital, and learned a few interesting things about digital full-frame mosaic photography that can produce images just as high or higher resolution as a 300dpi 4x5 scan with FAR GREATER clarity! Perhaps I simply hang out amongst more mature crowds, I can't be sure, but its not about bragging rights. It is, quite literally and truthfully, about NEEDS. It doesn't matter if those needs are from a professional or a hardcore hobbyist! Just because someone is serious about their hobby doesn't nullify their NEEDS! The far-too-oft spouted "If you need more MP, get a digital MF!! Stop bitching!" is REALLY getting old! The Pentax 645D is the cheapest option out there, and the body alone costs ten grand!! Thats nothing to speak of the need to reinvest in a whole new line of lenses and accessory gear!! The cost of upgrading to MF is EXCESSIVE and almost incomprehensible, even for many professionals who don't have fifty to a hundred grand to drop on an entirely new brand and type of gear. So, "Stop bitching, get digital MF" is one of the most naive responses the i-hate-more-mp crowd has conjured up.
Second, there IS a measurable, demonstrable benefit from increases in MP, up to the levels we have today. Mathematically and physically, it can be demonstrated (or simply concluded, if you prefer) that CONTINUED increases to MP can STILL produce benefit. From the standpoint of FF sensors, were a long way from being maxed out. There is no reason to assume that continued increases in FF pixel density will increase noise when you factor in improved manufacturing techniques, better sensor design and layout, purer materials, etc. When you consider that current top of the line 18-24mp APS-C sensors are equivalent in density to 46.7-56.7mp FF sensors, and the quality people are eeking out of the 7D is STUNNING (http://500px.com/alwaysbj182), its hard to argue that high density sensors "suck and only produce unacceptable noise". A FF with 46-56mp is more than DOUBLE the current pixel density we have now with 21-24mp FF sensors from Canon and Sony...LOTS of room to grow there. Its a demonstrated fact (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=747761) that everything else being equal and without significantly out-resolving the lens, more MP means more actual resolution. In the case of Canon, with their mRAW and sRAW formats (which utilize more bayer pixel information per RGB pixel, producing a clearer, cleaner output akin to Foveon sensors), continued benefit could be gained well beyond the point where we out-resolve the physical maximum resolution of a "perfect" lens.
Finally, we have to put to rest that continued advancement on digital technology on ALL fronts INCLUDING resolution is a "waste", and that only improvement to ISO really matters anymore. Compare nature documentaries from merely a decade ago, and from the decade before that, to the unfathomable quality, both artistically and technically, that the BBC has been pumping out since Planet Earth and the advent of high resolution ultra high speed digital cinematography gear. Combine highly skilled cinematographers who are true artisans, possibly some of the greatest artists alive in the world today, with that incredibly advanced technology that many people would have called completely unnecessary a decade or two ago (and many who quite possibly still do today)...and you get something mindblowingly phenomenal. This ideology that what we have now is enough, that no more MP is necessary, that only better low-noise high ISO will ever help anybody else ever again, is about as naive as it gets! MP is just as important as ISO, just as important as reducing noise, just as important as improving optical resolution, just as important as improving the fundamental technology of the sensor itself (such as readout wiring, readout rate, etc.) Its all important!
As someone who wants it all...better ISO AS WELL AS more MP, I'm sick and tired of being considered a bragging fool by the "stop bitching, all you need is ISO, get digital MF!" camp. Not everyone needs astounding high-ISO performance at 52,100 and beyond. Not everyone needs a 14fps frame rate that might cause anime lovers to blush! Not everyone needs professional-grade video recording capabilities in every single one of their DSLR's. Not everyone needs extremely high resolution, either. Advancement needs to occur on all fronts, to meet the needs of everyone, and having one camp continually complain about another camp when they voice their opinions is nonconstructive and fundamentally annoying. Stop it.
First off, I hear the term "bragging" thrown around a lot by people who seem to abhor continued increases in MP count. That term is completely inappropriate, and entirely unwarranted. I can't recall the last time I ever actually heard ANYONE brag about ANY of their gear. I've never once encountered a professional photographer who "laughed" at my gear, inwardly or otherwise. At worst, I've had some very enlightening debates about the merit of large format film (i.e. Velvia 50 4x5) and drum scans over digital, and learned a few interesting things about digital full-frame mosaic photography that can produce images just as high or higher resolution as a 300dpi 4x5 scan with FAR GREATER clarity! Perhaps I simply hang out amongst more mature crowds, I can't be sure, but its not about bragging rights. It is, quite literally and truthfully, about NEEDS. It doesn't matter if those needs are from a professional or a hardcore hobbyist! Just because someone is serious about their hobby doesn't nullify their NEEDS! The far-too-oft spouted "If you need more MP, get a digital MF!! Stop bitching!" is REALLY getting old! The Pentax 645D is the cheapest option out there, and the body alone costs ten grand!! Thats nothing to speak of the need to reinvest in a whole new line of lenses and accessory gear!! The cost of upgrading to MF is EXCESSIVE and almost incomprehensible, even for many professionals who don't have fifty to a hundred grand to drop on an entirely new brand and type of gear. So, "Stop bitching, get digital MF" is one of the most naive responses the i-hate-more-mp crowd has conjured up.
Second, there IS a measurable, demonstrable benefit from increases in MP, up to the levels we have today. Mathematically and physically, it can be demonstrated (or simply concluded, if you prefer) that CONTINUED increases to MP can STILL produce benefit. From the standpoint of FF sensors, were a long way from being maxed out. There is no reason to assume that continued increases in FF pixel density will increase noise when you factor in improved manufacturing techniques, better sensor design and layout, purer materials, etc. When you consider that current top of the line 18-24mp APS-C sensors are equivalent in density to 46.7-56.7mp FF sensors, and the quality people are eeking out of the 7D is STUNNING (http://500px.com/alwaysbj182), its hard to argue that high density sensors "suck and only produce unacceptable noise". A FF with 46-56mp is more than DOUBLE the current pixel density we have now with 21-24mp FF sensors from Canon and Sony...LOTS of room to grow there. Its a demonstrated fact (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=747761) that everything else being equal and without significantly out-resolving the lens, more MP means more actual resolution. In the case of Canon, with their mRAW and sRAW formats (which utilize more bayer pixel information per RGB pixel, producing a clearer, cleaner output akin to Foveon sensors), continued benefit could be gained well beyond the point where we out-resolve the physical maximum resolution of a "perfect" lens.
Finally, we have to put to rest that continued advancement on digital technology on ALL fronts INCLUDING resolution is a "waste", and that only improvement to ISO really matters anymore. Compare nature documentaries from merely a decade ago, and from the decade before that, to the unfathomable quality, both artistically and technically, that the BBC has been pumping out since Planet Earth and the advent of high resolution ultra high speed digital cinematography gear. Combine highly skilled cinematographers who are true artisans, possibly some of the greatest artists alive in the world today, with that incredibly advanced technology that many people would have called completely unnecessary a decade or two ago (and many who quite possibly still do today)...and you get something mindblowingly phenomenal. This ideology that what we have now is enough, that no more MP is necessary, that only better low-noise high ISO will ever help anybody else ever again, is about as naive as it gets! MP is just as important as ISO, just as important as reducing noise, just as important as improving optical resolution, just as important as improving the fundamental technology of the sensor itself (such as readout wiring, readout rate, etc.) Its all important!
As someone who wants it all...better ISO AS WELL AS more MP, I'm sick and tired of being considered a bragging fool by the "stop bitching, all you need is ISO, get digital MF!" camp. Not everyone needs astounding high-ISO performance at 52,100 and beyond. Not everyone needs a 14fps frame rate that might cause anime lovers to blush! Not everyone needs professional-grade video recording capabilities in every single one of their DSLR's. Not everyone needs extremely high resolution, either. Advancement needs to occur on all fronts, to meet the needs of everyone, and having one camp continually complain about another camp when they voice their opinions is nonconstructive and fundamentally annoying. Stop it.
