This is probably the best camera review I’ve ever watched – Gerald Undone with the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6

[Starting out EOS R]

1) Look at what Sony and Panasonic gave us in video in a smaller body, with no weird self imposed limits, Slog 2&3, without over heating and 4k60, Yes I know it’s not near the same photography wise.

2)Have you tried being inconspicuous or mobile with a cinema camera? They are huge and cumbersome to carry around, even worse rigged out.
The problem isn’t that this isn’t an amazing photography tool, it’s that it’s probably just as capable tool for video if Canon would unlock it .Canon shooters would like to have something to rival the other smaller video cameras of other brands( A7s, Gh5, BMPCC). Hopefully in the same body.

Interesting points and it sounds like you do a lot of comparing manufacturers and liking things they do. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

The interesting thing about your points is that both the Sony and Panasonic don't do 8K and as you acknowledge are not nearly the same photography wise, so are not a genuine comparison. The second thing is, no I haven't tried being inconspicuous or mobile with a cinema camera and never will. My point was that most of the vlogs, you tube videos and proposed solutions like removing the card and battery, using an external power source and an external recorder etc are relevant for studio or inside use whereas the R5 is clearly designed for mobile photography and with the best will in the world was never intended as a professional / commercial video camera to replace dedicated cinema line cameras.

Anyone with a computer knows how they generate heat when processing images and as they are generally stationary items, have big fans built in to cool them. The R5 isn't a stationary computer and unless Canon wanted to make it larger, adding a fan and then destroy the cinema line product range, it was never going to be as capable. As I said, the marketing was terrible and should never have focused on the 8K video aspects but it is what it is and we cant change that but we can deal with it without continuously harping on about what could or should have been and how other manufacturers are doing things.

There are loads of fantastic cameras out there like the new Sony which is clearly a video centric camera but we shouldn't compare it to the R5 as it isn't the same thing. Sony have their way of moving forward, as do Canon, Panasonic and Nikon etc and all have their benefits and drawbacks. We are lucky that we live in a time where we can choose whatever we like, it's your decision at such an amazing time but we shouldn't moan about something that has already happened and we cant change.

I spend far too much time on this site and need to get out more lol. Have a great day everyone and keep safe!

 

[Mike the cat]

Not sure if it's been posted here already, but this video came up on YouTube, stating they got over 4 hours in 4kHQ mode when recording externally and removing the CFExpress card:

Gerald Undone left this comment on the video:

 

[Kiton]

It is only a week today that I have been shooting with this camera, but I think the 5d mk 4 and some EF glass will go up for sale next week to help fund some more RF glass.

I never thought I would see the day that I would sell the 5d mk 4, it is a great camera, but I said that about the 5d mk 3 too. And in a way, the R5 is the new 5d mk 5.

 

[Kurt]

This might explain why R5 overheats. Or does it?

Take a look at the R5 internals, you will notice that the processor is sandwiched between pcbs and there's literally no effective heat conduct between heat source(cmos, processor, etc) and the magnesium body, apart from air.




This thermo image of the R5 while recording also suggest that the heat is not transferred very well to the body, which make the r5 more like a thermos mug. This is however, from my understanding, is purely done by purpose.




However
Considering The R5 can do 'almost' unlimited continues burst of 45mp in 20fps (which is very close to 8k 24fps) without any overheating even in hot weather, there is no cool down time requirement between bursts as long as the camera can clear the buffer fast enough.
Does it seems strange that even powering on and toggling the menus will greatly reduce the recording time in certain modes？

This leads me thinking, either the camera indeed cant handle that extra 4fps and all the related processing, and canon deliberately design the thermo performance this way to protect their cinema line. Or, R5 is actually capable of far better recording performance, but canon set a firmware limitation, again, to protect the C-line. Just look at the upcoming RF compact C-camera, smaller than 1dx, and 4k 120, no limits.

It seems that canon is far more than capable of producing the 'perfect' camera for both still and motion lovers. The only reason it does not do so is that it challenging its own business model. not sony or anyone else.

BTW, bought both R5 and A7S3. Sigh...

 

[RayValdez360]

So after having 2 back to back photoshoots, I noticed the overheating warning came on. I did no video.IT is probably true that if you take a ton of photos and switch to the "heater" modes, that the camera will probably overheat. It was a studio shoot and I had my air conditioning on. This is not good for hybrid event photos that think they can shoot photos and try something like 4k60. I didnt switch to video so I dont know how much heat time was lost using photos.

 

[dlee13]

well... i skipped like 18 minutes till he actually started talking about photography, which is all this camera is about (even if people keep forgetting it).

www.nicolaszonvi.com

And that skipping got you 2 mins of photography talk...

I usually enjoy his videos and do subscribe to him andI will probably hate myself later on for saying this BUT, I even preferred Tony Northrup's video as he focused purely on photography in his review.

 

[Chris.Chapterten]

So after having 2 back to back photoshoots, I noticed the overheating warning came on. I did no video.IT is probably true that if you take a ton of photos and switch to the "heater" modes, that the camera will probably overheat. It was a studio shoot and I had my air conditioning on. This is not good for hybrid event photos that think they can shoot photos and try something like 4k60. I didnt switch to video so I dont know how much heat time was lost using photos.

Would like to here some more details about this. How many photos did you take before the overheating warning came up?

 

[nikkito]

That’s you. But there are many more people willing to take their own pictures than there used to be.
Video has become much less commoditized as you generally need more than one person, A stabilizer, an editor and good audio. Some can still do it but if you are a photographer (Me) who is getting less jobs for what ever reason you want to be able to use your tools to do more, like video.

So when you make a purchase, you want the tool that can do both well. I’m not sure why this is so hard to understand, especially if you have a shelf of Canon glass.

What?
I'm not against video, but I'm a photographer and this is a photo camera.
So if... Let's say, 20 reviews are about video and 1 is about photography, it's only natural this bothers me. Check the comments on that photography review of the R5. Everyone is saying thanks for reviewing it for photos.

Why do I even have to explain this. Honestly, this is crazy. You don't review a selfie stick for how good it works to scratch your back. Do you?

 

[adigoks]

This might explain why R5 overheats. Or does it?

Take a look at the R5 internals, you will notice that the processor is sandwiched between pcbs and there's literally no effective heat conduct between heat source(cmos, processor, etc) and the magnesium body, apart from air.
View attachment 191911
View attachment 191912
View attachment 191913

This thermo image of the R5 while recording also suggest that the heat is not transferred very well to the body, which make the r5 more like a thermos mug. This is however, from my understanding, is purely done by purpose.

View attachment 191914
View attachment 191915

However
Considering The R5 can do 'almost' unlimited continues burst of 45mp in 20fps (which is very close to 8k 24fps) without any overheating even in hot weather, there is no cool down time requirement between bursts as long as the camera can clear the buffer fast enough.
Does it seems strange that even powering on and toggling the menus will greatly reduce the recording time in certain modes？

This leads me thinking, either the camera indeed cant handle that extra 4fps and all the related processing, and canon deliberately design the thermo performance this way to protect their cinema line. Or, R5 is actually capable of far better recording performance, but canon set a firmware limitation, again, to protect the C-line. Just look at the upcoming RF compact C-camera, smaller than 1dx, and 4k 120, no limits.

It seems that canon is far more than capable of producing the 'perfect' camera for both still and motion lovers. The only reason it does not do so is that it challenging its own business model. not sony or anyone else.

BTW, bought both R5 and A7S3. Sigh...

that layout tho, put the big hot CFExpress just beside the CPU is absolutely nightmare in my opinion. the heat are magnified by each other just by being used right?

Thats why some youtuber found that recording time extend by multiple time just by record externally without CFExpress inserted into camera body.
i think the board layout also affecting landscape photographer who wants to do long exposure photo. producing much more hot pixel in their image / dark frame.

overall im agree with what Kurt said. pretty sure canon is more than capable to deliver usable 8K DSLM . they can design the camera to well dissipate the heat . but as we know about canon, they wont sacrifice their other product line up.

 

[scyrene]

Not only are professionals doing both video and photo, but in general, more people are doing videography. Think about mobile apps like Instagram and TikTok that continue to pivot to videos versus still images - video is quickly becoming the more desirable way to communicate.

Are people creating content on those apps with MILCs or DSLRs though? I'd have thought the vast majority of videos were filmed on mobile phones, because they are ubiquitous and the workflow is so much easier.

 

[Chromedbustop]

So much of that review is on the irrelevant video functions. Youtubers almost always entirely focus on how well a stills camera does in video.

That's the fault of Canon. If they wanted it to be viewed as a primarily stills camera they shouldn't have sent so many of their preview builds to video-focused youtubers.

 

[AlanF]

That's the fault of Canon. If they wanted it to be viewed as a primarily stills camera they shouldn't have sent so many of their preview builds to video-focused youtubers.

My rule of life has been to under-promise and over-deliver - never had a research grant application turned down,

 

[scyrene]

Canon Rumors attracts the largest group of stodgy, stuck in the past "photographers" who are angry that video has become more important than stills on the internet. You guys are worse than the crowd who insisted that no Pro would ever use autofocus in video, which has quickly become one of the most important video features in professional video cameras.
Wake up and smell the coffee: these mirrorless cameras are HYBRID cameras. Their main selling point is that they do BOTH well. And video is obviously extremely important, if not the most important feature today, which Canon clearly demonstrated by focusing so strongly on the video features in the marketing hype.
It's you stuck-in-the-past, "get your video features off of my lawn" dinosaurs who look increasingly unbalanced.

Nothing like insulting a bunch of people for no reason, eh? If some people are like that, what's the problem? Just because something has become popular doesn't mean everyone has to like it. Different strokes for different folks.

Fwiw I do very little video in large part because I find sharing it online a LOT harder than still images. The workflow is a lot more involved, it's harder to get good results, and I find upload times too long, clip length restrictions on some platforms (like Twitter) too short, and playback quality often very poor indeed. Even using a high end mobile phone, it's usually not worth the hassle. But I respect people who enjoy it and create video content, because I endeavour to be open minded. You could try that.

 

[SecureGSM]

This might explain why R5 overheats. Or does it?

Take a look at the R5 internals, you will notice that the processor is sandwiched between pcbs and there's literally no effective heat conduct between heat source(cmos, processor, etc) and the magnesium body, apart from air.
View attachment 191911
View attachment 191912
View attachment 191913

This thermo image of the R5 while recording also suggest that the heat is not transferred very well to the body, which make the r5 more like a thermos mug. This is however, from my understanding, is purely done by purpose.

View attachment 191914
View attachment 191915

However
Considering The R5 can do 'almost' unlimited continues burst of 45mp in 20fps (which is very close to 8k 24fps) without any overheating even in hot weather, there is no cool down time requirement between bursts as long as the camera can clear the buffer fast enough.
Does it seems strange that even powering on and toggling the menus will greatly reduce the recording time in certain modes？

This leads me thinking, either the camera indeed cant handle that extra 4fps and all the related processing, and canon deliberately design the thermo performance this way to protect their cinema line. Or, R5 is actually capable of far better recording performance, but canon set a firmware limitation, again, to protect the C-line. Just look at the upcoming RF compact C-camera, smaller than 1dx, and 4k 120, no limits.

It seems that canon is far more than capable of producing the 'perfect' camera for both still and motion lovers. The only reason it does not do so is that it challenging its own business model. not sony or anyone else.

BTW, bought both R5 and A7S3. Sigh...

This theory is not very well supported if you consider that R5 is capable of hours of recording to an external recorder with memory cards removed. It is either the card that is being a massive heat source or software is glitchy.

 

[quilatoo]

Would like to here some more details about this. How many photos did you take before the overheating warning came up?

What’s an acceptable number of shots to take to be locked out of features we pay for?

 

[Respinder]

Are people creating content on those apps with MILCs or DSLRs though? I'd have thought the vast majority of videos were filmed on mobile phones, because they are ubiquitous and the workflow is so much easier.

Sure you’re right - but the idea is that these apps are pushing the mainstream audiences (the same mainstream who would’ve used point-and-shoots in the pre-smartphone-era) towards video. Pros in turn are also doing more video along with photos. I don’t think photography is decreasing or going away - it’s simply that videography is increasing - and with mainstream audiences doing cell phone videos it is only natural that pros will use pro equipment (ILC/DSLRs) to create their footage

 

[ahsanford]

This theory is not very well supported if you consider that R5 is capable of hours of recording to an external recorder with memory cards removed. It is either the card that is being a massive heat source or software is glitchy.

So:

• Writing to CF express generates a ton of heat? Don't the card manufacturers have to certify their speeds can be safely obtained without overheating, data errors, etc.? Are they only on the hook for demonstrating peak speed and not some ability to run consistently under certain operating limits? Has anyone put an IR gun or contact thermometer on their cards vs. other parts of the body to see that the cards are actually heating up to a greater degree than the body in general?
  
  
• Canon somehow implemented CF express on the R5 incorrectly? (What if the R6 also allows this no card + external recording to go longer?)
  
  
• Canon wanted strict temp controls managed with time limits, but somehow forgot to enforce limits in the firmware for this specific no card + external recorder? (Doubt this: that would imply the dude who discovered this would brick his rig if he kept going.)

This is a weird one. Very curious to hear Canon's response to this.

- A

 

[yeahright]

Somewhat off-topic, but related to the discussion about video vs. stills in the current media landscape: I would honestly like to feel a bit less like a dinosaur and be able to embrace video, since apparently, many people find it more appealing than written information and/or still photography. However, I fail to grasp the appeal of many online videos; this is particular true of many youtube channels, where a lot of the content is simply someone sitting in a room talking about some topic that could also easily have been written down. These days, you can hardly find any product review, tutorial or whatnot that is not in video form. Most often I just don't see the added value, instead, for me there are typically several drawbacks:

* A written article is easy to cross-read and it is easy to skip the paragraphs that are clearly not of interest, because you can usually tell in a split second what a paragraph will be about - (almost) impossible in video. Usually you have to spend much more time watching parts of the video that don't actually interest you, because skipping parts is much more cumbersome.
* Quite frequently some tiny bit of information is blown up to several minutes of video - people just don't come to the point quickly - probably because otherwise, the videos would be too short. Also, in writing you can e.g. include a table or a chart with much more in-depth information than you could include in a video. In video, many times I find that the information stays more superficial.
* You need to carry headphones with you to be able to watch videos everywhere. In public transportation, or for that matter, in any public space, where I'd have the most spare time to do so, I can't watch a video without headphones because the sound would be disturbing to other people. Leaving headphones as another bothersome item to deal with.
* I cannot process the information in my own pace but am forced to listen in the talking speed of the presenter. Therefore, I frequently find myself having to jump back a few seconds in videos because I have missed a point, couldn't follow quickly enough, or (e.g. in tutorials) want to try the things myself simultaneously, which usually takes longer than the presenter takes to show them. In an article, it is easy to have it open side by side and simply follow instructions step by step. In video, I have to hop back and forth, and end up seeing the same portion of the video over and over again (also because hopping back is almost always not on point as well).

Of course I get the appeal of video for cinematography, any action videos, music or dance videos, wedding videos, wildlife action, etc. But for youtube content of the sort "person explaining/reviewing something that doesn't inherently require motion" - could someone enlighten me what the major benefits are? Maybe I have just been missing the point. Honest question.

 

[adigoks]

So:

• Writing to CF express generates a ton of heat? Don't the card manufacturers have to certify their speeds can be safely obtained without overheating, data errors, etc.?
  
  
• Canon somehow implemented CF express on the R5 incorrectly? (What if the R6 also allows this no card + external recording to go longer?)
  
  
• Canon wanted strict temp controls managed with time limits, but somehow forgot to enforce limits in the firmware for this specific no card + external recorder? (Doubt this: that would imply the dude who discovered this would brick his rig if he kept going.)

This is a weird one. Very curious to hear Canon's response to this.

- A

1 . yes CF Express generates a ton of heat.
typical M.2 NVMe SSD using x3 PCI-E lane and CFExpress type B using 2X PCI-E lane if i remember correctly. although it only needs around 5-15 Watt for M.2 SSD, it does produce massive amount of heat.
thats why some fast & expensive VNMe SSD had heatsink on top of it. also consider how small the form factor of CFExpress type B is compared to M.2 SSD.

also user in another thread in this forum pointed out how NVMe may work on the camera, which is pretty similar with what we can found in our PC.

2. Most Likely
with how they place CPU & CFExpress slot, it probably is. but deliberately or not we didnt know for sure.

3. yeah same as i thought

 

[Jack Douglas]

Somewhat off-topic, but related to the discussion about video vs. stills in the current media landscape: I would honestly like to feel a bit less like a dinosaur and be able to embrace video, since apparently, many people find it more appealing than written information and/or still photography. However, I fail to grasp the appeal of many online videos; this is particular true of many youtube channels, where a lot of the content is simply someone sitting in a room talking about some topic that could also easily have been written down. These days, you can hardly find any product review, tutorial or whatnot that is not in video form. Most often I just don't see the added value, instead, for me there are typically several drawbacks:

* A written article is easy to cross-read and it is easy to skip the paragraphs that are clearly not of interest, because you can usually tell in a split second what a paragraph will be about - (almost) impossible in video. Usually you have to spend much more time watching parts of the video that don't actually interest you, because skipping parts is much more cumbersome.
* Quite frequently some tiny bit of information is blown up to several minutes of video - people just don't come to the point quickly - probably because otherwise, the videos would be too short. Also, in writing you can e.g. include a table or a chart with much more in-depth information than you could include in a video. In video, many times I find that the information stays more superficial.
* You need to carry headphones with you to be able to watch videos everywhere. In public transportation, or for that matter, in any public space, where I'd have the most spare time to do so, I can't watch a video without headphones because the sound would be disturbing to other people. Leaving headphones as another bothersome item to deal with.
* I cannot process the information in my own pace but am forced to listen in the talking speed of the presenter. Therefore, I frequently find myself having to jump back a few seconds in videos because I have missed a point, couldn't follow quickly enough, or (e.g. in tutorials) want to try the things myself simultaneously, which usually takes longer than the presenter takes to show them. In an article, it is easy to have it open side by side and simply follow instructions step by step. In video, I have to hop back and forth, and end up seeing the same portion of the video over and over again (also because hopping back is almost always not on point as well).

Of course I get the appeal of video for cinematography, any action videos, music or dance videos, wedding videos, wildlife action, etc. But for youtube content of the sort "person explaining/reviewing something that doesn't inherently require motion" - could someone enlighten me what the major benefits are? Maybe I have just been missing the point. Honest question.

I'll enlighten you - you're probably getting old like me and are too thorough, engaged, serious, thoughtful and know how to read. You may however be in the process of becoming obsolete - perhaps you need a processor upgrade or an implant of some supplemental AI like the R5 got.

It's hard to know where the world is headed with its progressive ideas but I certainly like the progress on the R5.

Jack