This is what we know Canon will be announcing for Photokina

Mikehit

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Jul 28, 2015
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First of all, I'm really sorry you can't get USA prices in the UK. To make it worse, we usually don't pay any sales tax either (or VAT). And we have Greentoe and CanonPriceWatch, who usually can match gray market prices from authorized Canon retailers, plus no sales tax. Does that make it worse for you? :) Anyway, I was responding to a post that said Canon will have a hard time (selling cameras) this shopping season. My point was, no they wont - if Canon is competitive with Sony at the same price points, how much more so at lower ones.
That makes no difference to my point. FYI, the grey market goods in UK are generally about 20-25% cheaper than the High Street which sorta suggests they are avoiding VAT, which matches your description of prices in the US and how a shop can offer at grey market prices. But that does not avoid the fact prices of 5DIV in UK have been relatively stable for the last 2 years, nor does it avoid the fact that relying on ebay prices to support an argument is dodgy in the extreme.
And my point is that Canon clearly does not need to reduce its prices (if it did they would have done so) yet Sony with supposedly superior products need to reduce theirs to compete with Canon.

That is the problem with the market - it gives a genuine picture of what the population as a whole thinks of a product. I am not saying that Canon does not need to respond because it clearly does. My point is, and always has been, that the urgency with which they need to respond is far, far lower than the doom-mongers, Sony fanboys, and geen-eyed Sony wannabes (those wishing Canon would copy them) make out.
 
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Architect1776

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I've chosen to stay a Canon shooter but I need another body NOW. Choices are: (1) buy a 5D-IV which is great but long-in-the-tooth; or (2) wait for FF ML or new 5DS-II or Leica compact FF ... :confused:
Do you "Need" another body or just want one to help with GAS. I believe most are bought because of want not need unless it is broken or some esoteric feature not on the current camera. I am sort of glad Canon is waiting still. Let Nikon get the rave reviews then let canon look and see what is there and features. Perhaps they will listen regarding desires this time and provide them with the next go around of bodies. They still have the best lenses.
 

Stuart

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It seems bad that Canon don't look to compete at this time, instead they are releasing lenses that are shorter and lighter.
Will this be enough to stave of the reignited Nikon interest and their new enabling mount?
 

rrcphoto

EOS R6
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
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It's a curious silence from the rumor mill to what Canon will be coming out with this photokina. I don't think Canon has ever done a photokina without somewhat of a splash on a camera body of some sort. So for them to go into PhotoKina and the last biannual one at that with nothing but lenses, seems, well odd.
 

IWLP

EOS M6 Mark II
Feb 15, 2011
81
11
I'm much less concerned about Canon's mirrorless entry and much more worried about the lack of updates in the APS-C mirrorslapper space.

I have a 70D that I would like to replace (ergonomic issues), but I have a hard time spending money to replace it with a 7D Mark II, which was last iterated 4 years ago. In that timeframe, Nikon released the very compelling D500, leaving Canon's wide-spaced iterations looking more than a little flat. With the ongoing consumerization of the X0D line, I need something that is made for adult-sized hands with modern amenities and image quality. Four plus years to iterate a semi-pro body falls flat for me, especially since the 7D to 7d II release gap saw Nikon sit on a venerable line of DSLR bodies itself. If Canon does prefer to let the market move before it makes its play, it's past time.

And no, I don't want to jump to full-frame, which totally blows up my lens configuration. My employer would not appreciate the whole thought of "yes, I need this $3500 camera body, but then I need an extra $5000-$8000 worth of lenses to get me back to where I am today." It's a bit of a hard sell.

$.02
 

MrAndre

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Aug 12, 2018
22
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After thinking about it, I am guessing that Canon’s new mount to Ef adapter just is not good enough yet.

They know that this adapter working 100% is the best bet to make people stay with canon, because the lens ecosystem is Canon’s number one selling point.

Sitting on a finished camera and waiting for its specs to fade in comparison does just not sound plausible to me!
 

Mikehit

EOS R6
Jul 28, 2015
3,308
502
After thinking about it, I am guessing that Canon’s new mount to Ef adapter just is not good enough yet.

They know that this adapter working 100% is the best bet to make people stay with canon, because the lens ecosystem is Canon’s number one selling point.

Sitting on a finished camera and waiting for its specs to fade in comparison does just not sound plausible to me!
I am not sure what your point is.
 

amorse

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Jan 26, 2017
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Very interesting report over on the Sony sites- I'm interested to know what everyone thinks of this :)

https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sony-now-has-40-of-the-us-full-frame-market-share/

Sony Market Share By Percentage 1H 2018
BrandU.S. Dollar Share


Sony 40%
Canon 33%
Nikon 26%

Source: The NPD Group, Inc., U.S. Retail Tracking Service, Detachable Lens Camera, Sensor Size: Full Frame, Based on Dollars Share, Jan.- Jun. 2018.
I think it makes sense - Sony has released 2 FF cameras recently, while Canon has released 0 - of course they will sell more immediately following a release. The surprising part for me is how low Nikon is with the D850 release being relatively recent, and receiving significant praise.

Considering that the D850 has been called the best camera ever built by a number of blogs/vloggers/media outlets, the fact that it hasn't turned the tides at all for Nikon tells me that spec measuring doesn't have much of an impact on sales. Further, Nikon made the same announcement in December last year and in that short period of time they've fallen to 26% - it shows how transient these type of statistics are.

This data is sales in one country over 6 months, for one subsegment (Full frame). Canon still holds ~50% of the whole market because they sell so many cameras around the world in all segments. As I've said before, when Sony holds over 50% of the whole market for a whole Canon release cycle, then Sony would be clearly leading the pack. Until then it's anybody's guess.
 
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transpo1

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Jan 12, 2011
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I think it makes sense - Sony has released 2 FF cameras recently, while Canon has released 0 - of course they will sell more immediately following a release. The surprising part for me is how low Nikon is with the D850 release being relatively recent, and receiving significant praise.

Considering that the D850 has been called the best camera ever built by a number of blogs/vloggers/media outlets, the fact that it hasn't turned the tides at all for Nikon tells me that spec measuring doesn't have much of an impact on sales. Further, Nikon made the same announcement in December last year and in that short period of time they've fallen to 26% - it shows how transient these type of statistics are.

This data is sales in one country over 6 months, for one subsegment (Full frame). Canon still holds ~50% of the whole market because they sell so many cameras around the world in all segments. As I've said before, when Sony holds over 50% of the whole market for a whole Canon release cycle, then Sony would be clearly leading the pack. Until then it's anybody's guess.
There's another way to interpret this as well- Sony has the lead with FF because they're the only ones who have FF MILCs. These are cameras with new technology that are more lightweight (at least, the bodies are) and with EVFs suitable for video shooting. The tech is new, and educated FF buyers seem to want it.

Once Nikon, and finally, Canon, come out with their FF MILCs, we'll see whether Sony can maintain that lead.

My hope is that Canon and Nikon pull out all the stops (no pun intended) in regards to features and specs, especially in regards to video, and fulfill the legacy of the late, great 5DII's FF video features, which started the HDSLR revolution. If they can also give us competitive DR and low light along with FF 4K 60p and Clog, not many people will care about Sony anymore.
 

nchoh

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Apr 3, 2018
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I think it makes sense - Sony has released 2 FF cameras recently, while Canon has released 0 - of course they will sell more immediately following a release. The surprising part for me is how low Nikon is with the D850 release being relatively recent, and receiving significant praise.

Considering that the D850 has been called the best camera ever built by a number of blogs/vloggers/media outlets, the fact that it hasn't turned the tides at all for Nikon tells me that spec measuring doesn't have much of an impact on sales. Further, Nikon made the same announcement in December last year and in that short period of time they've fallen to 26% - it shows how transient these type of statistics are.

This data is sales in one country over 6 months, for one subsegment (Full frame). Canon still holds ~50% of the whole market because they sell so many cameras around the world in all segments. As I've said before, when Sony holds over 50% of the whole market for a whole Canon release cycle, then Sony would be clearly leading the pack. Until then it's anybody's guess.
Sony sold 40% of FF by $ for H1. Canon sold 33%.

It's not a good trend for Canon but, there are a few points worth considering...

Sony and Canon are about the same size. Sony is basically an electronics company while Canon is an imaging company. I am sure that Canon will not just let Sony eat its lunch.
Canon still doesn't have a FF mirrorless in the market. If they had a competitive product, I am sure that they would capture top spot.
Based on Canon's history and the position of FF mirrorless, Canon is probably making sure it gets it right before releasing it's FF mirrorless.
 
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Aug 22, 2018
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Based on Canon's history and the position of FF mirrorless, Canon is probably making sure it gets it right before releasing it's FF mirrorless.
I'm not in the market so it's easy for me to say but I would rather see Canon bring out a no compromise camera later than a place holder now. I'm hoping that they are still ran by engineers rather than accountants. But a public company has to stay relevant so it wouldn't surprise me if they introduced one real soon but with a few key features missing.
 

mppix

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Feb 13, 2018
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I've chosen to stay a Canon shooter but I need another body NOW. Choices are: (1) buy a 5D-IV which is great but long-in-the-tooth; or (2) wait for FF ML or new 5DS-II or Leica compact FF ... :confused:
Long story short, the 5D IV (and 6D II) are among the finest cameras out there (among several others). Both can make you famous. Like any camera, they have limitations that one can effectively mitigate by knowing their gear.

I don't hesitate to recommend the 5DIV (that I own). Waiting is always an option but we rarely get what we want/exprect..
Then, Leicas are different. To me, they are the trophy-wife equivalent - you'll like the "night" but she ain't going to "cook".
 
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mppix

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I think it makes sense - Sony has released 2 FF cameras recently, while Canon has released 0 - of course they will sell more immediately following a release. The surprising part for me is how low Nikon is with the D850 release being relatively recent, and receiving significant praise.

Considering that the D850 has been called the best camera ever built by a number of blogs/vloggers/media outlets, the fact that it hasn't turned the tides at all for Nikon tells me that spec measuring doesn't have much of an impact on sales. Further, Nikon made the same announcement in December last year and in that short period of time they've fallen to 26% - it shows how transient these type of statistics are.

This data is sales in one country over 6 months, for one subsegment (Full frame). Canon still holds ~50% of the whole market because they sell so many cameras around the world in all segments. As I've said before, when Sony holds over 50% of the whole market for a whole Canon release cycle, then Sony would be clearly leading the pack. Until then it's anybody's guess.
Interesting but does not say much without access to the actual market report. Googling "The NPD Group, Inc., Full frame cameras" results in a range of 2018 articles where either Sony or Nikon celebrates the No. 1 spot. I guess it's like the stock (or currency exchange) market. If you look at the right window and segment, everyone is a winner.
 

neuroanatomist

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After thinking about it, I am guessing that Canon’s new mount to Ef adapter just is not good enough yet.

They know that this adapter working 100% is the best bet to make people stay with canon, because the lens ecosystem is Canon’s number one selling point.

Sitting on a finished camera and waiting for its specs to fade in comparison does just not sound plausible to me!
But you think Canon being unable to successfully design an empty tube with a female EF mount on one end, a male 'EF-X' mount on the other end, and a mechanical lens release switch on the side and maybe a tripod foot does sound plausible?!?!?

Sheesh. :rolleyes:
 
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neuroanatomist

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There's another way to interpret this as well- Sony has the lead with FF because they're the only ones who have FF MILCs. These are cameras with new technology that are more lightweight (at least, the bodies are) and with EVFs suitable for video shooting. The tech is new, and educated FF buyers seem to want it.
There are lots of ways to interpret any piece of information, but some are logical while others are nonsensical. The tech has been around since Sony launched the a7 and a7R in 2013. Hardly new. Yet only now (in one country, for a short time period) is Sony ahead of Canon for FF ILC revenues. The tech isn't different, what's changed is the recent launch of zero FF ILCs by Canon vs. 2 FF ILCs from Sony – one at <$2K (and lower cost is what buyers really want, your "educated buyers" tripe notwithstanding).
 

Don Haines

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But you think Canon being unable to successfully design an empty tube with a female EF mount on one end, a male 'EF-X' mount on the other end, and a mechanical lens release switch on the side and maybe a tripod foot does sound plausible?!?!?

Sheesh. :rolleyes:
Jeez there Neuro..... chill out! It's not that simple..... There have to be 11 wires in it too!
 

mppix

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Feb 13, 2018
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It seems bad that Canon don't look to compete at this time, instead they are releasing lenses that are shorter and lighter.
Will this be enough to stave of the reignited Nikon interest and their new enabling mount?
If a company like Nikon changes mount, it surely ignites interest but we'll have to see whether it enables. Overall, Nikon DSLR seem to be harder to adapt for mirrorless (F-mount limitations, only contrast AF). It would nearly seem as Nikon feels the pressure of falling market shares resulting in a need to innovate. Change the mount is certainly a risk and there is an even bigger risk to depend on supplied key technologies: sensors with compelling AF, and potentially even the 5-axis stabilization. I'm sure there is a logic but it would certainly seem as if the only supplier is becoming the main competitor.
(Disclaimer: I have no information who produces the Nikon MILC sensor or in-body stabilization but would be -very- surprised if it was Nikon)

Canon is different - they seem to either develop in-house or not offer a feature. Then, EF is not really a technical limit, e.g. a 5D IV without mirror (but good EVF) could actually be a compelling product. EF lenses are used across the industry in fotos and video (Canon sold, by far, more EF lenses since 1987 than Nikon sold Nikkor lenses since 1959). For Canon, there is even more at stake and waiting may very well be the best bet. Its entirely possible that they have 2 MILC tooled up (or 1 where the mount can be changed) and are fine-tuning their marketing strategies.
 
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