Tilta shows off a cooling module for the Canon EOS R5

Baron_Karza

EOS RP
Feb 17, 2019
343
411
It remains to be seen who gets the last laugh! ;) Sale numbers will be telling too.

Jack
I hope Canon does well. Actually, no... what I really hope for is that the heating issues isn't as pathetic as it is pointing out to be, and so far it really is! And if it remains that horrendous, then I hope Canon does not do well and instead learns from their mistake.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,670
2,057
Alberta, Canada
I hope Canon does well. Actually, no... what I really hope for is that the heating issues isn't as pathetic as it is pointing out to be, and so far it really is! And if it remains that horrendous, then I hope Canon does not do well and instead learns from their mistake.
It's a non-issue for me. I will use what it is capable of delivering (and it isn't pathetic) and be happy as can be. This issue is completely overblown and associated with folk who consistently complain instead of being thankful for the amazing multi-brand products we have access to. For me it's analogous to those who join protests so they can trash and loot. As an electrical engineer, I understand the physics of heatsinking and the challenges and compromises involved.

Jack
 

Baron_Karza

EOS RP
Feb 17, 2019
343
411
It's a non-issue for me. I will use what it is capable of delivering (and it isn't pathetic) and be happy as can be. This issue is completely overblown and associated with folk who consistently complain instead of being thankful for the amazing multi-brand products we have access to. For me it's analogous to those who join protests so they can trash and loot. As an electrical engineer, I understand the physics of heatsinking and the challenges and compromises involved.

Jack
I disagree with that.

As an electrical engineer, you should know that Canon could have implemented a solution but didn't.
 

cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
735
I hope Canon does well. Actually, no... what I really hope for is that the heating issues isn't as pathetic as it is pointing out to be, and so far it really is! And if it remains that horrendous, then I hope Canon does not do well and instead learns from their mistake.

Pathetic? No cameras in customer hands yet and you say it is pathetic and horrendous and hope Canon learns from their mistake? :ROFLMAO:

The R5 and R6 are only a mistake for those who should own a 12MP low bitrate brick shaped video camera, not a stills power house with video features and full weather sealing with excellent ergonomics and lenses.

Stop watching so many youtube influencers.

As an electrical engineer, you should know that Canon could have implemented a solution but didn't.
Whiners never cease. Always the same thing. 'Canon could have and should have but betrayed the customer!' How many cameras have YOU designed that can shoot this bitrate of data with weather sealing? Why are you even here? Why not out shooting your much superior Sonikon and enjoying life? Or is there an agenda behind your continued complaining?
 
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SteveC

R5
CR Pro
Sep 3, 2019
1,859
1,720
Pathetic? No cameras in customer hands yet and you say it is pathetic and horrendous and hope Canon learns from their mistake? :ROFLMAO:

The R5 and R6 are only a mistake for those who should own a 12MP low bitrate brick shaped video camera, not a stills power house with video features and full weather sealing with excellent ergonomics and lenses.

Stop watching so many youtube influencers.


Whiners never cease. Always the same thing. 'Canon could have and should have but betrayed the customer!' How many cameras have YOU designed that can shoot this bitrate of data with weather sealing? Why are you even here? Why not out shooting your much superior Sonikon and enjoying life? Or is there an agenda behind your continued complaining?
I put Mr. Karza on ignore a couple of weeks ago, and so far I've seen nothing to indicate that was a wrong choice. I hope Sony isn't paying him too much, he's doing a terrible job for them.
 
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mb66energy

EOS R
Dec 18, 2011
1,453
331
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
The peltier is going require a bigger fan that will likely be noisier since it's generating a significant amount of heat on its own. The biggest effect of the peltier is just to drive the temperature difference beyond what you can get from the natural ambient temperature.
Yeah, you are right, I always think of peltiers like 100 % efficiency devices but they have less. Just today I printed a fan holder for my 600D to cool it by air flow: marginal effect through the plastic housing. So you are right too with using the peltier to get a lower temperture on the back side of the camera!
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
254
Only the simplest CPU coolers rely only on heat conduction. Most of them have heat pipes to move the heat away from the bottleneck. Like this one, where you can easily see the heat pipes that are made from copper.
View attachment 191584
Uh, the fact that the heat pipes are made of copper is a marketing gimmick and has just slightly more than nothing to do with the efficiency of the heat pipe. Go study how a heat pipe works. Clue- it's an evaporation/condensation cycle.
 

jvillain

EOS RP
Sep 29, 2018
208
147
This is certainly a bad look for Canon but is likley the low water mark. Taiwan semi is building a 5nm fab in the US for the US gov and are getting ready to build a 3nm fab back in Taiwan. That says the pace of shrinking circuits is still moving at a good pace. As Canon is able to incorperate the state of th art and incoporate it in their fabs they will be able to take advantage of the ever shrinking transitor size the circuitry will require less power which will produce less heat and use less power. The R5/6 won't benifit from that but the MKII might.
 

Kit Lens Jockey

EOS R
CR Pro
Nov 12, 2016
878
597
Unbelievable! If you had to make the camera a little bigger for cooling purposes, then do it. To me the size of the camera doesn't matter, what matters is I will be able to use it for more than fifteen minutes, then have to set it aside for forty minutes for it to cool down.
It was not just a matter of making the camera bigger. Almost all serious cinema cameras have air vents and fans to circulate air through the body. This is a stills camera first and foremost. And if Canon had come out with a 5 series level of camera that claimed no weather sealing due to the camera having air vents in and out of it, the backlash against the camera would have been much bigger than if the camera just needed some breaks when using its most intensive video modes. People seem to have totally forgotten this is a stills camera first and foremost. And professional stills cameras are expected to be weather sealed. Seems like Canon just can't make people happy... Put amazing video capability into a stills camera as a bonus, and people are ready to crucify Canon because that stills camera won't perform to the level of a dedicated cinema camera.
 

Fast351

EOS R6
Sep 12, 2014
47
62
Minnesota
www.fast351.com
My first thought around this was that, maybe Canon has been clever designing the body such as they have prepared for a battery grip with a fan and a termal connection to the interior of the body, accessible through the battey chamber and thus in normal cases weather sealed. The termal connection could be either conduction (Peltier?) or convection based (air channels).
I was surprised that Canon didn't do something like this. Like a metal plate covered by a plastic cover on the bottom of the body that could be exposed to couple to a cooling device with thermal paste...
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,670
2,057
Alberta, Canada
It was not just a matter of making the camera bigger. Almost all serious cinema cameras have air vents and fans to circulate air through the body. This is a stills camera first and foremost. And if Canon had come out with a 5 series level of camera that claimed no weather sealing due to the camera having air vents in and out of it, the backlash against the camera would have been much bigger than if the camera just needed some breaks when using its most intensive video modes. People seem to have totally forgotten this is a stills camera first and foremost. And professional stills cameras are expected to be weather sealed. Seems like Canon just can't make people happy... Put amazing video capability into a stills camera as a bonus, and people are ready to crucify Canon because that stills camera won't perform to the level of a dedicated cinema camera.
Oh no; Canon does make people happy and I'm one of them.:) Where Canon has trouble is in making the haters on the other side, happy - seems they do just the opposite, which is fine by me. Let the whiners be perpetually unhappy and waste their lives.:D

Jack
 
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wanderer23

EOS M6 Mark II
CR Pro
Feb 8, 2020
59
69
Amazed at the level of technical expertise here, very impressive. The way I see it, it takes one real world review to say this thing is useless to make it all fall apart for Tilta (i'm sure they'll sell tons of the cage anyway but for the coolling unit). So they must know at least from preliminary testing that it does something at least half decent. Hard to think their quoted #'s came out of pure speculation or marketing-team only.
 

Mr Majestyk

EOS RP
Feb 20, 2016
303
156
Australia
Things getting worse for the R5, now apparently if you shoot stills for an hour then want to use the video modes, you can't the camera has already overheated too much. Honestly, that's a deal breaker. As a birder I like to shot a little video in the field, 4K120p would be nice for some stuff. Canon can't be pushing the video angle heavily on one hand then saying it's only for very casual shooters. If it were a $2K camera I could accept that, but to pay big premium for video features tha may not even be usable ina normal workflow is poor form.

Looking at the internal board layout for the R5 it puts lot of hot components next to the sensor. Maybe they need a redesign with passive cooling and vents that can be opened and closed as needed. I was going to wait until after Xmas as it was before getting one, but now I'm going to sit pat and see how this plays out.
 

bbb34

5D mk V
Jul 24, 2012
151
168
Amsterdam
Uh, the fact that the heat pipes are made of copper is a marketing gimmick and has just slightly more than nothing to do with the efficiency of the heat pipe. Go study how a heat pipe works. Clue- it's an evaporation/condensation cycle.
Copper is by far the dominant heat pipe envelope material for cooling of electronic devices. The reason is not marketing, but compatibility with the working fluid: water or methanol. See here: ACT, or Wikipedia, or whatever you prefer.

Clue: If you write your postings in a less patronizing tone, it will be easier to admit being mistaken.
 
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Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
254
Copper is by far the dominant heat pipe envelope material for cooling of electronic devices. The reason is not marketing, but compatibility with the working fluid: water or methanol. See here: ACT, or Wikipedia, or whatever you prefer.

Clue: If you write your postings in a less patronizing tone, it will be easier to admit being mistaken.
Yes, compatibility is a reason, but the way you made your first statement, it sounded like you were proposing that the copper was the medium moving the heat. Sorry if I misinterpreted your intent. Aside from working fluid compatibility, for CPU cooling, copper is useful at the evaporator end because it is easy to bond to the copper heat spreader block. At the condenser end, it is less than ideal because for all but the most far out designs, aluminum fins are used and they are not easily bondable to the copper pipes, resulting typically in a pressure contact at best. For a camera heat pipe, copper would be unacceptably heavy (likely the reason you don't see many heat pipes in cameras), which could lead to something creative like carbon fiber tubes. Also graphene may well be a more suitable thermal transport approach due to its light weight and simplicity.
 

adigoks

EOS 750D
Jul 12, 2020
54
65
just imagine if this stuff works. it maybe also work on fuji XT4 , A7SIII, & all camera with flipside screen . :unsure:
with that into consideration, eventually flipside screen would be a norm.
 

bbb34

5D mk V
Jul 24, 2012
151
168
Amsterdam
Yes, compatibility is a reason, but the way you made your first statement, it sounded like you were proposing that the copper was the medium moving the heat. Sorry if I misinterpreted your intent. Aside from working fluid compatibility, for CPU cooling, copper is useful at the evaporator end because it is easy to bond to the copper heat spreader block. At the condenser end, it is less than ideal because for all but the most far out designs, aluminum fins are used and they are not easily bondable to the copper pipes, resulting typically in a pressure contact at best. For a camera heat pipe, copper would be unacceptably heavy (likely the reason you don't see many heat pipes in cameras), which could lead to something creative like carbon fiber tubes. Also graphene may well be a more suitable thermal transport approach due to its light weight and simplicity.
No, my friend, compatibility is the reason. I mentioned copper to let people who have never seen a heat pipe discover it in the image.

You should stick to read what people write, not try to interpret their intent.

Most people don't see heat pipes in cameras and mobile phones, because they usually don't open them. ;)

How heavy do you think are heat pipes? How thick do you think is the envelope?

Now, you make me really curious, do you think heat pipes are used in mobile devices because, or despite their weight?
 
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Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
254
No, my friend, compatibility is the reason. I mentioned copper to let people who have never seen a heat pipe discover it in the image.

You should stick to read what people write, not try to interpret their intent.

Most people don't see heat pipes in cameras and mobile phones, because they usually don't open them. ;)

How heavy do you think are heat pipes? How thick do you think is the envelope?

Now, you make me really curious, do you think heat pipes are used in mobile devices because, or despite their weight?
Now you are the one being smug. I have opened a number of laptops that that had aluminum heat pipes. Compatibility is not an absolute, but rather a matter of lifetime. If the product lifetime is estimated to be less than the lifetime of the heat pipe, then alternate materials are sometimes used. Heat pipes are generally lighter than conduction cooling and often heavier than fans. The cooling method that gets used depends on many engineering variables.
 

bbb34

5D mk V
Jul 24, 2012
151
168
Amsterdam
Now you are the one being smug. I have opened a number of laptops that that had aluminum heat pipes. Compatibility is not an absolute, but rather a matter of lifetime. If the product lifetime is estimated to be less than the lifetime of the heat pipe, then alternate materials are sometimes used. Heat pipes are generally lighter than conduction cooling and often heavier than fans. The cooling method that gets used depends on many engineering variables.
When you compare cooling solutions, you have to consider the complete system. For air cooling you have to include heat sinks.

I never wrote that Al pipes are not in use, did I? What was the working fluid in the aluminium heat pipes you found in your laptops?