Tilta shows off a cooling module for the Canon EOS R5

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
254
When you compare cooling solutions, you have to consider the complete system. For air cooling you have to include heat sinks.

I never wrote that Al pipes are not in use, did I? What was the working fluid in the aluminium heat pipes you found in your laptops?
I didn't take the laptop heat pipe apart an analyze the working fluid, but given that a laptop has a high risk of being left an an environment that could go below freezing, it may well have been something other than water. Water has the advantage of supporting a very high heat flux (watts per unit area), but the disadvantage that it doesn't support very low temperatures.
 

bbb34

5D mk V
Jul 24, 2012
151
168
Amsterdam
I didn't take the laptop heat pipe apart an analyze the working fluid, but given that a laptop has a high risk of being left an an environment that could go below freezing, it may well have been something other than water. Water has the advantage of supporting a very high heat flux (watts per unit area), but the disadvantage that it doesn't support very low temperatures.
How can you talk about material compatibility, if you don't know the materials involved?
 

bbasiaga

Canon Shooter
Nov 15, 2011
368
362
USA
Unbelievable! If you had to make the camera a little bigger for cooling purposes, then do it. To me the size of the camera doesn't matter, what matters is I will be able to use it for more than fifteen minutes, then have to set it aside for forty minutes for it to cool down.
People would then complain about lack of good weather sealing, making it useless for everything (apparently).

I always find it amusing that 'its so obvious they should have done XXX instead' is such a common statement. if it was that easy and obvious, all the posters who say that would be in the camera design business.

Here we have a camera that is about two thirds to half as expensive as the next 8k camera (Based on some numbers posted earlier in this thread) but comes with some record time limitations as a trade off. It has a feature set that has never been seen before in a stills camera, but is somehow DOA already because it has limits on things nothing that came before it could do. Step back and get some perspective guys....its getting ridiculous in here.

-Brian
 
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justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
699
508
Frankfurt, Germany
Maybe it would be smarter to design a tea/coffee heater that uses the sensor heat to work? ;) I wasn't surprised about the heat issues - same as with Sony's A9. The problem is indeed that IBIS allows only for quite weak links that can transport heat out of the sensor. But people want IBIS, so Canon had no choice as to come up with a critical technology. If I had to shoot extended video professionally with a stills camera, I'd really prefer to work with a 1D-X III because this classic camera design allows a much more effective cooling of the sensor. Unfortunately, today's silicon semiconductor technology is extremely ineffective, that's the fundamental problem the engineers have to struggle with. If the neurons in our brains would be based on silicon semiconductors, we would burn off Megawatts of energy when we think, not just a few Watts.
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
699
508
Frankfurt, Germany
I don't do video so this discussion about the camera cutting out doesn't really worry me. What would worry me is if the sensor gets warm and it increases the noise in the circuits, which would be noticeable at lower isos.,
Don't worry if you mostly shoot stills, that shouldn't heat up the sensor critically. The problem comes with longer 4/8k video takes, because then the huge numbers of image to be converted from the analogue photodiode signals to digital signals, pre-amplificated and read out gives the on-sensor processing really a massive go. Sony's original A9 had the same issues, Steve Huff e.g. changed to the 1D-X II after his Sony ruined him some video jobs. It's a problem that comes with IBIS. See my other comment a few minutes ago.
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
699
508
Frankfurt, Germany
I didn't take the laptop heat pipe apart an analyze the working fluid, but given that a laptop has a high risk of being left an an environment that could go below freezing, it may well have been something other than water. Water has the advantage of supporting a very high heat flux (watts per unit area), but the disadvantage that it doesn't support very low temperatures.
I guess the idea of connecting such a massive heat pipe to the sensor would ruin the whole Sheik Yerbouti business of IBIS? :cool:
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
254
I guess the idea of connecting such a massive heat pipe to the sensor would ruin the whole Sheik Yerbouti business of IBIS? :cool:
Yes, IBIS and a conventional heat pipe are incompatible. If the sensor is the overheating issue (and some cautions in the manual re image quality when the camera is overheated suggest that it might be), then a flexible strip of graphene might be one of the only options to improve the situation.
 
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justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
699
508
Frankfurt, Germany
Yes, IBIS and a conventional heat pipe are incompatible. If the sensor is the overheating issue (and some cautions in the manual re image quality when the camera is overheated suggest that it might be), then a flexible strip of graphene might be one of the only options to improve the situation.
Graphene has a high heat conductivity (electron transport in this exotic material is quite special) but given it has the thickness of only one atom layer I doubt it would be sufficient to transport the huge amount of heat that is required
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
254
Graphene has a high heat conductivity (electron transport in this exotic material is quite special) but given it has the thickness of only one atom layer I doubt it would be sufficient to transport the huge amount of heat that is required
The layers can be stacked.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,245
Yes, IBIS and a conventional heat pipe are incompatible. If the sensor is the overheating issue (and some cautions in the manual re image quality when the camera is overheated suggest that it might be), then a flexible strip of graphene might be one of the only options to improve the situation.
yup, superconductors to the rescue.. I hate to see the price ticket though :D
 

Dragon

EF 800L
May 29, 2019
310
254
yup, superconductors to the rescue.. I hate to see the price ticket though :D
Another option would be to really seal the camera and fill it with helium. That would improve the internal convection cooling by a factor of 6. Also it would be for sure weatherproof since helium is very sneaky about finding places to leak from.
 
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Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
CR Pro
Mar 25, 2011
16,438
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The problem here is the plastic on the outside of the camera. Plastic for the most part is an insulator, so a Peltier cooler is not going to draw heat through the plastic.
The space on my EOS R under the LCD appears to be metal, not plastic. I don't know about the heat path, but it looks like it at least had a metal surface to cool. I wonder if we will see cheap stick on heat sinks that provide a few more minutes?
 
Feb 15, 2020
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253
The space on my EOS R under the LCD appears to be metal, not plastic. I don't know about the heat path, but it looks like it at least had a metal surface to cool. I wonder if we will see cheap stick on heat sinks that provide a few more minutes?
I'm not sure if a heatsink will do much at all. According to some tests I've seen, the camera body isn't getting very warm when it overheats. The heat isn't making it to the surface much at all.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
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Mar 25, 2011
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I'm not sure if a heatsink will do much at all. According to some tests I've seen, the camera body isn't getting very warm when it overheats. The heat isn't making it to the surface much at all.
Since the tests show ambient temp does have a effect, cooling will help. Just how much is the question. In my case, its a non issue, I'm just keeping up with the news. I'm also a engineer who has worked with lots of similar gadgets. A cooling module will use lots of power, so its not going to be portable without a very large battery or very long cord.
 
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Feb 15, 2020
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Since the tests show ambient temp does have a effect, cooling will help. Just how much is the question. In my case, its a non issue, I'm just keeping up with the news. I'm also a engineer who has worked with lots of similar gadgets. A cooling module will use lots of power, so its not going to be portable without a very large battery or very long cord.
Strange, in a few of the tests I've seen the reviewer says that ambient temps made little to no difference to record times. Dan Watson and Gerald Undone make a point of this. At the start of this video Gerald makes a point of ambient temps having basically no effect:

 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,245
Since the tests show ambient temp does have a effect, cooling will help. Just how much is the question. In my case, its a non issue, I'm just keeping up with the news. I'm also a engineer who has worked with lots of similar gadgets. A cooling module will use lots of power, so its not going to be portable without a very large battery or very long cord.
the other consideration: would you be brave enough having your facial features in a such close proximity to a fast spinning fan on the back of the camera?
can you imaging what may happen if long hairs will get in the spinning fan? oh boy..