Tilta shows off a cooling module for the Canon EOS R5

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,670
2,057
Alberta, Canada
So basically nothing gets in and nothing gets out.

This is what I get from all the videos and articles I've encountered so far. EXCEPT for ONE: And that is from CANON themselves. They say to use an external fan. WTF??

Come one guys, enough is enough! I love Canon but we can't be apologizing about the heat issues. Canon's become a joke now.
I think most will decide that someone other than Canon is the joke in this case.;)

Jack
 

Joules

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,216
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Hamburg, Germany
Come one guys, enough is enough! I love Canon but we can't be apologizing about the heat issues. Canon's become a joke now.
People loosing their mind over incomplete testing of a product that is not even in the hands of consumers yet and pushes the limits of technology on all aspects is a joke.

More information will become available as the cameras become available to a broader group of testers. Performance may improve over time as well, if Canon has ways to address some aspects of these cameras with firmware updates. Or it may not. Regardless, for the majority of use cases the R5 seems to provide some of the best performance available at the time. For the specific case of recording very high detail video, there is a temporal limitation, that may or may not be expanded by additional hardware. In any case, nobody is forced to make use of that. The old method of getting 4K video without overheating is still available. Canon has just added more options. Options, that few to no competitors offer at similar prices currently. Complaining about that is fair, but only as long as the context is right. Calling Canon as a whole a joke seems silly to me.
 

cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
735
More worryingly is the C&T Northrup video where she had the camera overheating taking stills and the battery running out after an hour, plus EVF blackout. A really weird video that totally contradicts the Canon Ambassador reviews who clearly said the VF was almost like using a DSLR View finder on both mechanical 12FPS & Electronic 20FPS. If there is overheating on stills, that is worrying but something doesn't seem right with this?
Not worrying for me at all. I'll wait for the camera to be in my hands late this week before listening to Sony Northrup. I find him a dismal presenter and sensationalist with frequent bias. Very, very few camera gear reviewers are entertaining and honest at the same time, and Sony Northrup is neither in my opinion. People making a living cranking out sensationalist youtube content are just like influencers to me; a form of parasite existing off the actual work of others who sell themselves out and contribute little. For those of you who enjoy his 'reviews' and 'tests', carry on. Very few youtube reviewers I find balanced and entertaining. Also, just to be clear I place no brand over others, I happen to enjoy Canon but find many major brands offer great stuff these days. If it turns out there is a real issue with the R5, I will be the first to admit it, but something has been way off with a LOT of reviews and comments blowing things out of proportion. I have never seen Canon put a poorly tested camera into the field with major issues.
 

Joules

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,216
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Hamburg, Germany
He's right in way, but the camera at the time they started cooling it was already hot, so he's also very wrong as well.

the concept of this is to reduce the temperature delta over time in a sealed space by making the magnesium alloy colder.
We had a lot of people set them selves up for eating crow back when many were doubting the specs of the R5. I guess some still haven't got enough, so they are getting in line for a second serving :LOL:

I like your article, nice and nuanced.

I have previously linked a thread to an astro forum. There somebody attached a peltier to his T3i without any modification to the camera itself, just pushed against the are behind the screen. They claim visible differences in noise, so a decent improvement in cooling. If that can be done even with the actual plastic body of the T3i, I don't see how the paint on the magnesium shell will hinder this solution from working at all.

Probably the most interesting question is what actually generates the heat. If it is the sensor, and that has poor heat transfer to the body due to IBIS, it may actually be a problem. But in that case I don't see how they pull off 20 minutes before reaching problematic temperatures, as they should have very, very little thermal mass.
 

cornieleous

5D4 + R5
Jul 13, 2020
208
735
The main benefit to the Peltier cooling module is that it works during the process that the camera is creating the heat. This helps to reduce the build-up and extend the time it takes to get hot. Those other solutions appear to have been used AFTER the camera was already hot in an attempt to cool it.

People want to crack on this cooler for it not working. Peltier cooling is insanely capable - although the heatsink on the back of this one doesn't look all that effective, which will diminish the effectiveness of the whole thing.

I personally hope it works as advertised...because it could be a legitimate solution that would be no different than internal cooling...it just comes down to how well it can work on the R5 and/or R6 with their different body materials and how the heat is being distributed within the camera. If the heat is mainly building up on the back panel where this is attached to, then thermal transfer will work back to the source to push back the heat. This is how CPU coolers work.


I see no way it can work well enough through the camera body especially if that area of the body was not a designed thermal sink. Even then, it takes a lot of ambient temperature difference for a small CFM fan like that to cool a heat sink and it will probably be massively noisy. What will power it? Also, you can only cool to ambient unless you use refrigeration, so in hot conditions this will likely do little.

For me, the most legit solution to this complete non problem getting way too much attention will be not to waste thousands upgrading my memory cards, monitors, and computer for long clips of 8K workflow. I have plenty of CPU, GPU, RAID and SSD storage that is already challenged enough by 4K.

I have to wonder, was there this much hype and alleged 'disaster' and problem solving for any previous MILC overheating? All I recall is people complaining at shutdown and saying those cameras were still the best and could be used with care.
 

raptor3x

EOS RP
Jan 26, 2012
598
90
State College, PA
whumber.com
I see no way it can work well enough through the camera body especially if that area of the body was not a designed thermal sink. Even then, it takes a lot of ambient temperature difference for a small CFM fan like that to cool a heat sink and it will probably be massively noisy. What will power it? Also, you can only cool to ambient unless you use refrigeration, so in hot conditions this will likely do little.
That's exactly what a Peltier/thermoelectric cooler does, it's a solidstate refrigeration unit. The fan is to cool off the hot side of the peltier element, not the camera body directly. Even the ubiquitous Tec1-12706 elements that you can buy anywhere for a few dollars should be able to provide some pretty significant cooling 60C worth of deltaT.
 
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kozakm00

I'm New Here
Jan 12, 2016
15
0
EOS HD tried to cool R5 with bag of ice with little to no effect, can't imagine how this could have any effect at all.
 

Joules

EOS R
CR Pro
Jul 16, 2017
1,216
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Hamburg, Germany
I see no way it can work well enough through the camera body especially if that area of the body was not a designed thermal sink.
As I provided earlier, this sort of stuff absolutely works, even for cameras with plastic shells (which the R5 is not):


As was also noted earlier, we aren't dealing with crazy amounts of heat here. Just a buildup over time. Symphoning off just a little of that buildup should have a good chance of extending record times, maybe to the point where even the very critical folks can no longer melt their brains in agony over this limitation. Or more likely, they'll go on bashing something else.
 
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mb66energy

EOS R
Dec 18, 2011
1,453
331
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
[...]
Also, my from my experience, this cooling device is placed perfectly. That is only based on my 600D, which did get very warm in the area behind the screen when being pushed by Magic Lantern.
[...]
But getting around 20 Minutes of recording and further recordings after a few minutes of passive cooling makes me believe that even a little active heat dissipation will help a lot.
[...]
So my 600D with ML is NOT an exception! Good to hear. Thought about a 5V-fan operated by a power bank (like the camera) which is mounted via the hot shoe and blows air downwards around sensor back and inner grip area which are warm ... hot.
EOS M need a lot more time to achieve the same temperature - the metal housing helps maybe ...

2nd point: Yes, I do think that too. And I like Canon for the fact that they give that information to potential users instead letting users find out about that property of the camera themselves.
 
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Joules

EOS R
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Jul 16, 2017
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EOS HD tried to cool R5 with bag of ice with little to no effect, can't imagine how this could have any effect at all.
Care to link to that test? I couldn't find it on the fly.

Without some insight into the methodology, no parallels can be drawn to the solution discussed here.
 

mb66energy

EOS R
Dec 18, 2011
1,453
331
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
Heat flow rate is a matter of temperature difference.

If the camera inside has e.g. 70 °C and the outside temperature of the plastic is 50°C in operation you can cool the outside easily down to 30 °C with a (bigger) fan alone at 20°C room temperature.
Temperature difference between inside and outside is 20 °C without fan, but 40°C with fan. That results in twice the heat transfer which is proportional to the temperature difference.

The peltier might help to reduce size of the cooling device and reduce the air flow resulting in lower noise - they probably do not cool it down to -10 °C to avoid rain/dew inside the camera. So power consumption might be on the moderate side.
 

SecureGSM

2 x 5D IV
Feb 26, 2017
2,376
1,245
The problem here is the plastic on the outside of the camera. Plastic for the most part is an insulator, so a Peltier cooler is not going to draw heat through the plastic.
Scrap the plastic off, bolt the heatsink on with a heat conducting grease :D
 

mb66energy

EOS R
Dec 18, 2011
1,453
331
Germany
www.MichaelBockhorst.de
About "plastics do not conduct heat" - this is a bold statement which is close to correct for 10cm sheets of polyurethane foam in vacuum but not for 1mm compact polycarbonate sheets which have low thermal conductivity - but it's far from zero:

Thermal conductivity of polycarbonate (as example) is 0.2 watts per meter and Kelvin meaning that ..
a block of 1 m² area and 1m thickness transfers 0.2 watts (or joule per second) @ 1 Kelvin (=1 °C) temperature difference.
(by the way this is equivalent to roughly 15 centimeters of low density rockwool and would be sufficient for passive house construction or three times better than a three sheet insulating glass window (the glass))

If you have a 1mm thick and 0.0025 m² sheet of plastic - roughly a 4 x 6 cm area - you have 0.5 Watt per degree temperature difference. If the camera produces roughly 10 Watts cooling down from e.g. 50 °C to 30 °C would be sufficient to remove these 10 Watts permanently.

10 Watt power consumption should be right order of magnitude because the battery has 15 Watt hours and I would expect some hour + X for the amount of video @ 8k.
 

Starting out EOS R

EOS R5 - RF24-105mm F4L, RF70-200mm f2.8L
Feb 13, 2020
289
312
Not worrying for me at all. I'll wait for the camera to be in my hands late this week before listening to Sony Northrup. I find him a dismal presenter and sensationalist with frequent bias. Very, very few camera gear reviewers are entertaining and honest at the same time, and Sony Northrup is neither in my opinion. People making a living cranking out sensationalist youtube content are just like influencers to me; a form of parasite existing off the actual work of others who sell themselves out and contribute little. For those of you who enjoy his 'reviews' and 'tests', carry on. Very few youtube reviewers I find balanced and entertaining. Also, just to be clear I place no brand over others, I happen to enjoy Canon but find many major brands offer great stuff these days. If it turns out there is a real issue with the R5, I will be the first to admit it, but something has been way off with a LOT of reviews and comments blowing things out of proportion. I have never seen Canon put a poorly tested camera into the field with major issues.
Well said!
 

mariosk1gr

EOS M6 Mark II
Jan 4, 2019
76
52
For me I canceled my preorder of R5. Beside photography work, I work with video a lot also so I'm very confused with all this situation. I will give 1-2 months at most to see real world reviews and take my final decision if I buy it or not. I want it badly ofc but the fear that it may overheat in front of a client is a little scary. But to be honest with you what made also to cancel is that may Canon introduce next month a new RF mount camera. I have the dream that it may be a R5C just like Canon did with original 1Dx and 1Dc. Time will tell soon I hope...
 
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Starting out EOS R

EOS R5 - RF24-105mm F4L, RF70-200mm f2.8L
Feb 13, 2020
289
312
For me I canceled my preorder of R5. Beside photography work, I work with video a lot also so I'm very confused with all this situation. I will give 1-2 months at most to see real world reviews and take my final decision if I buy it or not. I want it badly ofc but the fear that it may overheat in front of a client is a little scary. But to be honest with you what made also to cancel is that may Canon introduce next month a new RF mount camera. I have the dream that it may be a R5C just like Canon did with original 1Dx and 1Dc. Time will tell soon I hope...
I'm sure in a previous post, I read that whilst there is a new Canon RF mount camera to be announced, it wouldn't be a EOS R line body so chances are it's unlikely to be an R5C, sorry. :(
 

12Broncos

EOS M6 Mark II
Jul 20, 2019
63
59
Unbelievable! If you had to make the camera a little bigger for cooling purposes, then do it. To me the size of the camera doesn't matter, what matters is I will be able to use it for more than fifteen minutes, then have to set it aside for forty minutes for it to cool down.
 
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Ale_F

6D - 7D
Nov 22, 2018
71
46
I don't do video so this discussion about the heating is useless for me,
BUT
What's the limit between
Photo-camera
Video-camera
Cine-camera

I'm assuming that the border between the 1st and 2nd is becoming null, why?
 

raptor3x

EOS RP
Jan 26, 2012
598
90
State College, PA
whumber.com
The peltier might help to reduce size of the cooling device and reduce the air flow resulting in lower noise - they probably do not cool it down to -10 °C to avoid rain/dew inside the camera. So power consumption might be on the moderate side.
The peltier is going require a bigger fan that will likely be noisier since it's generating a significant amount of heat on its own. The biggest effect of the peltier is just to drive the temperature difference beyond what you can get from the natural ambient temperature.
 
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