Tilta shows off a cooling module for the Canon EOS R5
- Thread starter Canon Rumors Guy
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People loosing their mind over incomplete testing of a product that is not even in the hands of consumers yet and pushes the limits of technology on all aspects is a joke.
More information will become available as the cameras become available to a broader group of testers. Performance may improve over time as well, if Canon has ways to address some aspects of these cameras with firmware updates. Or it may not. Regardless, for the majority of use cases the R5 seems to provide some of the best performance available at the time. For the specific case of recording very high detail video, there is a temporal limitation, that may or may not be expanded by additional hardware. In any case, nobody is forced to make use of that. The old method of getting 4K video without overheating is still available. Canon has just added more options. Options, that few to no competitors offer at similar prices currently. Complaining about that is fair, but only as long as the context is right. Calling Canon as a whole a joke seems silly to me.
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Not worrying for me at all. I'll wait for the camera to be in my hands late this week before listening to Sony Northrup. I find him a dismal presenter and sensationalist with frequent bias. Very, very few camera gear reviewers are entertaining and honest at the same time, and Sony Northrup is neither in my opinion. People making a living cranking out sensationalist youtube content are just like influencers to me; a form of parasite existing off the actual work of others who sell themselves out and contribute little. For those of you who enjoy his 'reviews' and 'tests', carry on. Very few youtube reviewers I find balanced and entertaining. Also, just to be clear I place no brand over others, I happen to enjoy Canon but find many major brands offer great stuff these days. If it turns out there is a real issue with the R5, I will be the first to admit it, but something has been way off with a LOT of reviews and comments blowing things out of proportion. I have never seen Canon put a poorly tested camera into the field with major issues.
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We had a lot of people set them selves up for eating crow back when many were doubting the specs of the R5. I guess some still haven't got enough, so they are getting in line for a second serving
I like your article, nice and nuanced.
I have previously linked a thread to an astro forum. There somebody attached a peltier to his T3i without any modification to the camera itself, just pushed against the are behind the screen. They claim visible differences in noise, so a decent improvement in cooling. If that can be done even with the actual plastic body of the T3i, I don't see how the paint on the magnesium shell will hinder this solution from working at all.
Probably the most interesting question is what actually generates the heat. If it is the sensor, and that has poor heat transfer to the body due to IBIS, it may actually be a problem. But in that case I don't see how they pull off 20 minutes before reaching problematic temperatures, as they should have very, very little thermal mass.
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I see no way it can work well enough through the camera body especially if that area of the body was not a designed thermal sink. Even then, it takes a lot of ambient temperature difference for a small CFM fan like that to cool a heat sink and it will probably be massively noisy. What will power it? Also, you can only cool to ambient unless you use refrigeration, so in hot conditions this will likely do little.
For me, the most legit solution to this complete non problem getting way too much attention will be not to waste thousands upgrading my memory cards, monitors, and computer for long clips of 8K workflow. I have plenty of CPU, GPU, RAID and SSD storage that is already challenged enough by 4K.
I have to wonder, was there this much hype and alleged 'disaster' and problem solving for any previous MILC overheating? All I recall is people complaining at shutdown and saying those cameras were still the best and could be used with care.
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That's exactly what a Peltier/thermoelectric cooler does, it's a solidstate refrigeration unit. The fan is to cool off the hot side of the peltier element, not the camera body directly. Even the ubiquitous Tec1-12706 elements that you can buy anywhere for a few dollars should be able to provide some pretty significant cooling 60C worth of deltaT.
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As I provided earlier, this sort of stuff absolutely works, even for cameras with plastic shells (which the R5 is not):
T3ia DSLR cooler Mod...DIY - DSLR, Mirrorless & General-Purpose Digital Camera DSO Imaging - Cloudy Nights
Page 1 of 2 - T3ia DSLR cooler Mod...DIY - posted in DSLR, Mirrorless & General-Purpose Digital Camera DSO Imaging: Hi everyone, i though i might show my home,made cooler mod for my T3ia DSLR canon. Its completely detachable from the DSLR... all the part were found on Amazon and Ebay. took...
As was also noted earlier, we aren't dealing with crazy amounts of heat here. Just a buildup over time. Symphoning off just a little of that buildup should have a good chance of extending record times, maybe to the point where even the very critical folks can no longer melt their brains in agony over this limitation. Or more likely, they'll go on bashing something else.
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So my 600D with ML is NOT an exception! Good to hear. Thought about a 5V-fan operated by a power bank (like the camera) which is mounted via the hot shoe and blows air downwards around sensor back and inner grip area which are warm ... hot.
EOS M need a lot more time to achieve the same temperature - the metal housing helps maybe ...
2nd point: Yes, I do think that too. And I like Canon for the fact that they give that information to potential users instead letting users find out about that property of the camera themselves.
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Care to link to that test? I couldn't find it on the fly.
Without some insight into the methodology, no parallels can be drawn to the solution discussed here.
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Heat flow rate is a matter of temperature difference.
If the camera inside has e.g. 70 °C and the outside temperature of the plastic is 50°C in operation you can cool the outside easily down to 30 °C with a (bigger) fan alone at 20°C room temperature.
Temperature difference between inside and outside is 20 °C without fan, but 40°C with fan. That results in twice the heat transfer which is proportional to the temperature difference.
The peltier might help to reduce size of the cooling device and reduce the air flow resulting in lower noise - they probably do not cool it down to -10 °C to avoid rain/dew inside the camera. So power consumption might be on the moderate side.
If the camera inside has e.g. 70 °C and the outside temperature of the plastic is 50°C in operation you can cool the outside easily down to 30 °C with a (bigger) fan alone at 20°C room temperature.
Temperature difference between inside and outside is 20 °C without fan, but 40°C with fan. That results in twice the heat transfer which is proportional to the temperature difference.
The peltier might help to reduce size of the cooling device and reduce the air flow resulting in lower noise - they probably do not cool it down to -10 °C to avoid rain/dew inside the camera. So power consumption might be on the moderate side.
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Scrap the plastic off, bolt the heatsink on with a heat conducting grease
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About "plastics do not conduct heat" - this is a bold statement which is close to correct for 10cm sheets of polyurethane foam in vacuum but not for 1mm compact polycarbonate sheets which have low thermal conductivity - but it's far from zero:
Thermal conductivity of polycarbonate (as example) is 0.2 watts per meter and Kelvin meaning that ..
a block of 1 m² area and 1m thickness transfers 0.2 watts (or joule per second) @ 1 Kelvin (=1 °C) temperature difference.
(by the way this is equivalent to roughly 15 centimeters of low density rockwool and would be sufficient for passive house construction or three times better than a three sheet insulating glass window (the glass))
If you have a 1mm thick and 0.0025 m² sheet of plastic - roughly a 4 x 6 cm area - you have 0.5 Watt per degree temperature difference. If the camera produces roughly 10 Watts cooling down from e.g. 50 °C to 30 °C would be sufficient to remove these 10 Watts permanently.
10 Watt power consumption should be right order of magnitude because the battery has 15 Watt hours and I would expect some hour + X for the amount of video @ 8k.
Thermal conductivity of polycarbonate (as example) is 0.2 watts per meter and Kelvin meaning that ..
a block of 1 m² area and 1m thickness transfers 0.2 watts (or joule per second) @ 1 Kelvin (=1 °C) temperature difference.
(by the way this is equivalent to roughly 15 centimeters of low density rockwool and would be sufficient for passive house construction or three times better than a three sheet insulating glass window (the glass))
If you have a 1mm thick and 0.0025 m² sheet of plastic - roughly a 4 x 6 cm area - you have 0.5 Watt per degree temperature difference. If the camera produces roughly 10 Watts cooling down from e.g. 50 °C to 30 °C would be sufficient to remove these 10 Watts permanently.
10 Watt power consumption should be right order of magnitude because the battery has 15 Watt hours and I would expect some hour + X for the amount of video @ 8k.
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For me I canceled my preorder of R5. Beside photography work, I work with video a lot also so I'm very confused with all this situation. I will give 1-2 months at most to see real world reviews and take my final decision if I buy it or not. I want it badly ofc but the fear that it may overheat in front of a client is a little scary. But to be honest with you what made also to cancel is that may Canon introduce next month a new RF mount camera. I have the dream that it may be a R5C just like Canon did with original 1Dx and 1Dc. Time will tell soon I hope...
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I'm sure in a previous post, I read that whilst there is a new Canon RF mount camera to be announced, it wouldn't be a EOS R line body so chances are it's unlikely to be an R5C, sorry.
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Unbelievable! If you had to make the camera a little bigger for cooling purposes, then do it. To me the size of the camera doesn't matter, what matters is I will be able to use it for more than fifteen minutes, then have to set it aside for forty minutes for it to cool down.
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The peltier is going require a bigger fan that will likely be noisier since it's generating a significant amount of heat on its own. The biggest effect of the peltier is just to drive the temperature difference beyond what you can get from the natural ambient temperature.
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I think most will decide that someone other than Canon is the joke in this case.
Jack
Really? Like who? I only see Canon being laughed at by both the community and the industry:
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