Update: The Canon EOS R3 will be officially announced on June 29th

David - Sydney

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Dec 7, 2014
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SDexpress will be as fast if not faster than most CFexpress cards. And more common
As with the Betamax vs VHS format war in the 1980s, cost and installed base ultimately determined the winner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videotape_format_war
High end cameras have changed memory formats relatively frequently (CF, Cfast, XQD, CFe A/B and UHS-i/ii) depending on their need for speed.

If there is no/limited cost difference for the card slot to handle multiple standards then the camera manufacturers won't have an issue. It is really about what the market is for the cards themselves. If the volume for SD Express is not high then the price won't fall.
 
Aug 7, 2018
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It is sad that Canon no longer wants to give us the choice between DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. After a while they will proudly claim that most people switched to mirrorless and say that acceptance is very high, but is it really accaptance if you are forced to switch, because DSLRs are no longer developed? It reminds me of Microsoft proudly claiming how many people switched to Windows 10. Or some dictator claiming 95% percent of votes in an "election", although he was the only candidate. Or 16:9 TVs for example. After years I still hate that format and prefer the ration of 4:3, but I was more or less forced to move to 16:9. Or cellphones without an replaceable battery. Most people loved the option that they could replace the battery after two years or so and get the whole battery capacity again, but we were not given a choice. Luckily the EU might make replaceable batteries mandatory again, but the EU probably will not save DLSRs :-(

The only real advantage of mirrorless cameras is the shorter flange distance that makes new lens designs possible, but I probably would not buy those overpriced RF lenses anyway and instead use an EF adapater and therfore lose that advantage. All other features of mirrorless camera could be incorporated in the live view mode of a conventional DSLR for those who really want a mirrorless experience. Cameras like the 1D X Mark III already work like a mirrorless camera in live view mode and it would even be possible to attach an external EVF.
 

blackcoffee17

EOS RP
Sep 17, 2014
791
1,039
It is sad that Canon no longer wants to give us the choice between DSLRs and mirrorless cameras. After a while they will proudly claim that most people switched to mirrorless and say that acceptance is very high, but is it really accaptance if you are forced to switch, because DSLRs are no longer developed? It reminds me of Microsoft proudly claiming how many people switched to Windows 10. Or some dictator claiming 95% percent of votes in an "election", although he was the only candidate. Or 16:9 TVs for example. After years I still hate that format and prefer the ration of 4:3, but I was more or less forced to move to 16:9. Or cellphones without an replaceable battery. Most people loved the option that they could replace the battery after two years or so and get the whole battery capacity again, but we were not given a choice. Luckily the EU might make replaceable batteries mandatory again, but the EU probably will not save DLSRs :-(

The only real advantage of mirrorless cameras is the shorter flange distance that makes new lens designs possible, but I probably would not buy those overpriced RF lenses anyway and instead use an EF adapater and therfore lose that advantage. All other features of mirrorless camera could be incorporated in the live view mode of a conventional DSLR for those who really want a mirrorless experience. Cameras like the 1D X Mark III already work like a mirrorless camera in live view mode and it would even be possible to attach an external EVF.

Developing 2 PRO systems and mounts takes lots of resources and they probably decided it's not worth it. In a few years most people will switch to mirrorless anyway. There will always be a few who want to use DSLR and optical viewfinder but that happens with film too.
I personally wouldn't go back to chunky DSLR's, AF adjustments and flapping mirrors, but I like the OVF.
 
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GMCPhotographics

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It might depend on the local market... Most current EF lenses go for ~60% of retail value for good examples. Previous version for about a third. The EF100-400mm ii is an exception with about 70-80% second hand price which is why I went to RF100-500mm (@ 20% off sale). EF70-200/2.8ii is about 60% of the new mark iii retail price. Very few ads for EF70-200mm/2.8iii though.

For bodies, the 5Div is selling second hand for ~60% of retail price with reasonable shutter count and a few years old. I bought mine second hand and then sold it for slightly more than I sold it for!

The market for EF lenses is obviously a bit saturated due to people migrating to RF. This will depress their prices permanently but their performance will continue to be excellent for many years to come.

It would be tough to decide which OEM/mirror v mirrorless to choose from if I was to start a camera kit from scratch now. From a pure cost perspective, second hand Canon DLSR + EF lenses would make good financial sense. Sony's marketing machine (including fanbois) would be hard to ignore though.
You are comparing new EF prices vs current S/H values. I bought my EF 85mm f1.2 IIL for £895 new, some time back. Since then, there's been several recessions and multiple RRP price hikes. Now it's still worth a wee bit more on the S/H market than I bought it for (and I've had years of good use out of it). Which is amazing considering that it's been effectively been superseded twice (ef 85mm f1.4L and rf 85mm f1.2L). I paid £3K each for my pair of 5DIII's bodies...latest and greatest at the time...now they are work about £700 each. Sure I've had good use out of them, but that's a large hit. DSLR / RF Bodies go down over time because they are being replaced by better models every few years. look at the price of a S/H EOS R's are compared to how much they cost new as few years back. Canon are actively targeting S/H cameras with their lower models because they don't make any money on S/H cameras. The 6D was designed to compete against (and be slightly better) than previous generation of 5D series on the S/H market. Compare how much a lens for the EOS R cost 3 years back compared to now...those same lenses now retail a little higher than 3 years back due to inflation and spiralling production costs. If you sold those 3 year old lens, you wouldn't loose out much. Give it a few more years and those lenses will be selling S/H for the same pair for it 3 years previous. But the Ros R and Rp are selling for a lot less S/H.

However, i do agree with you that your local market and local retailers have a lot of power over the S/H prices, desirability and new prices.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
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Aug 9, 2018
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Yes. My original model EF 300 2.8 still takes amazing images. I think it's remarkable that Canon built a system in the late 80's such that you can still mount those lenses on an R5 from 2020 and do amazing work. I can't think of any other piece of expensive high technology that is so backwards/forwards compatible. Not that I still don't miss my FD 400 2.8.
What about mounting rangefinder-coupled Leica screw-mount lenses from the twenties on a 2021 Leica digital body?
And Leicaflex 1964 lenses on a 2021 Leica SL2 body?;)
 

Copland

I'm New Here
Jun 28, 2021
9
8
  • Dual card slot SD & CFExpress
Does that mean one slot for SD or CFe or like the R5 SD and CFe at the same time?

Normally Dual Card Slot (without "s") means: there is one slot, and both card types can be used, but only one or the other.
The Sony A1 for example has two Dual Card Slots.
 

sanj

EOS R5
Jan 22, 2012
4,153
1,026
My big question is: Will the 4k of this camera be equal/better than the 8k of R5 converted to 4k? I adore how the R5 8k looks at 5k.
 
Aug 7, 2018
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I have so far kept my strict policy of not selling any old camera equipment, even if I do not use it anymore. I do not like the idea that I get less money than I paid. So I do not care to much about losing value. I know that my 1D X is probably worth close to nothing now, but despite a few hot pixels it still does the same good photos as when I bought it many many years ago. I like the idea of still having all those stuff in 50 years from now like the old cameras your grandpa owned and never sold.

I hope that the new wave of cameras, which is more and more dependent on electronic components, will also last forever like one of those old SLRs.
 
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EOS 4 Life

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Somewhere I read an explanation why that is unlikely: The idea of a DSLR is that you take a photo of what you see through the viewfinder. If the sensor is stabilized and the mirror is not, you lose that connection. That is different from using a stabilized lens, which will also appear stabilized through the optical viewfinder.
That sounds like a good explanation of why Canon and Nikon chose OIS over IBIS but I would still prefer to have both.
 

EOS 4 Life

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Sep 20, 2020
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I am a happy Canon DSLR owner, but do see the writing on the wall. Canon would not want to keep two competing product lines going for very long,
Canon has had competing APS-C lines for a long time.
I am not sure they want to maintain that or even expand that further, but since Canon wins whichever one is sold it more comes down to whether or not it is worth it for them.
 

EOS 4 Life

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Sep 20, 2020
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You'd just have to learn to shoot a little bit loose. I'd be worried that the theoretical single plane movement of the sensor might have just enough play in two or more planes to through off the AF. But I'm not an engineer so this is just a guess.
I do not really hear Pentax users complain.
 

EOS 4 Life

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Sep 20, 2020
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I guess Canon has poor business acumen. When they switched from FD to EF mount, they phased out of FD even though many photographers had FD cameras and could not even adapt the EF lenses.
It surely worked out but it was a risky decision for sure.
Canon has been pretty conservative since then.
 
Aug 7, 2018
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Did they announce yet at which time the announcement will be? Will there just be a press release or a real video or even live event?
 

EOS 4 Life

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I don’t remember an FD to EF converter. My point was that Canon is moving to RF, and phasing out of EF, which is a very expensive proposition. They need to encourage as many photographers as possible to make the switch. Making more EF cameras discourages the switch.
I hear this a lot but I can't really make much sense of it.
Canon does not benefit that much by getting us existing DSLR customers to switch to mirrorless.
We were going to buy new DSLRs anyway.
The point of mirrorless is to sell to people who were not intending to buy DSLRs.
They want extra sales.
If Canon has decided that it is no longer profitable to make DSLRs then of course they will want us to buy their mirrorless cameras.
Maybe that is switching in the mind of some people but I would call that settling.
 

EOS 4 Life

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Sep 20, 2020
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My big question is: Will the 4k of this camera be equal/better than the 8k of R5 converted to 4k? I adore how the R5 8k looks at 5k.
It will be downsampled from 6.7K so it will be less sharp but whether or not it is better depends on some other factors like dynamic range and overall noise.
 

amorse

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Jan 26, 2017
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I hear this a lot but I can't really make much sense of it.
Canon does not benefit that much by getting us existing DSLR customers to switch to mirrorless.
We were going to buy new DSLRs anyway.
The point of mirrorless is to sell to people who were not intending to buy DSLRs.
They want extra sales.
If Canon has decided that it is no longer profitable to make DSLRs then of course they will want us to buy their mirrorless cameras.
Maybe that is switching in the mind of some people but I would call that settling.
Only Canon knows it's intent, but I think there are a few ways to look at that potential benefit to Canon by pushing people to switch. For instance, I suspect a lot of mirrorless buyers will end up re-buying lenses they already own in EF, resulting in greater lens sales than otherwise anticipated. Secondly, it may be a long term approach to maintaining customers. I think performing the autofocus on the sensor directly holds some clear opportunities and if Canon were to ignore mirrorless entirely, some people may become more likely to change brands in order to access those opportunities in the long run.

With respect to Canon only offering mirrorless to those who didn't want a DSLR, I'm not sure where Canon sees DSLRs in their future, but they have certainly put the vast majority of their effort into RF and relatively little into EF over the last while. They may indeed be pushing people to switch so they can move away from (or drastically reduce) DSLR production/development and there are certainly signs pointing that way. The last two DSLRs they released seem to be the 1DXIII and 850D in January and February of 2020, and plenty of camera lines appear to be either discontinued, behind on past release schedules, or nearing their typical renewal dates without any rumours of EF replacement. Further, the last EF lens releases were the 70-200 f/2.8 III and the 70-200 f/4 IS USM II in 2018; and several EF lenses have been rapidly discontinued, including one of the new EF 70-200's. None of that gives me a ton of confidence that a new batch of high-end DSLRs are coming from Canon. But hey, those sticking with DSLRs may yet be rewarded with extra cheap EF deals on the used market for a while so it's not all bad news!