What’s next for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6?

[HenWin]

It appears (?) from what I've read here and elsewhere that Canon--understandably--has forsaken DSLRs in favor of mirrorless. I'm bummed, however that they chose not to include GPS in the R5/R6. I have it in my 5d4 and consider it a feature well worth having. Hopefully they'll put it back in in future cams. But I guess we'll wait and see, won't we?

 

[Mark3794]

The situation is overblown as always. Every time Canon has an issue the world is ending according to some news sites.

The a7sIII shuts down in 30 minutes recording 4k24p. They should recall even this camera right?

Sony a7S III heat testing update. Had it out again for one last set of tests before returning our pre-production unit to Sony. Once again bright sunny day, mid-afternoon, 90F, but this time lower humidity (31% vs 51%). Auto temp power off set to high (again), but this time rear screen swung a full 180 degrees away from body. Only lasted 30 minutes this time. For now, my results are very similar to Dan Watson’s down in Florida.

 

[landon]

Just to reply to CTO Larsson's video about stock prices since he removed my reply from his video without even trying to provide a counter-argument.

Comparing Stock prices is highly misleading. Canon's portfolio is full of products in shrinking segments (cameras, printers, multifunction devices... etc.). Sony, on the other hand, has many products in growing segments (console gaming, consumer electronics, semiconductors ... etc.). This makes Canon, as a company, unattractive for investors.

When you look at the annual revenue, on the other hand, both companies are stuck in terms of growth. Sony is averaging around $75 billion (an average of 7% from the imaging segment). In comparison, Canon is averaging about $40 billion a year (an average of 23% from the imaging segment).

None of this is related to the discussion, since a company like Fuji, which is far smaller than both, is making great camera products. While Kodak, which just saw it's stock prices go up by more than %300, does not make any imaging products.

Not sure what the argument is about. Just my 2 unrelated cents. Since the pandemic and many people/students have to work/study from home. Printers have sold out.

 

[Respinder]

Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?

So if you don’t get 12 FPS continuous with EF lenses not listed here, what speed are you getting? Or is it that there is no continuous shooting at all for unlisted lenses?

 

[mppix]

Hmmm. That’s promising and also scary at the same time.
I have an R5 sitting on my desk. Testing time. We’ll see what Canon’s move is. They have to make an announcement sooner rather than later.

I would not worry too much. CPS is still one of the best things about Canon. If there is a solution, you will get it too

 

[RayValdez360]

Take the time to get it right.
I want to see the c100 and/or c200 RF cinema line first, so I can decide between the R5 or R6 as a B cam.

An announcement is over due for those cameras at this point. I am already eyeing 3 a7sIIIs to be my 3 compact cinema cameras. At least for events.

 

[Brooklyn]

I am with Been There.
I am primarily a still shooter and rarely shot video. I don't think I have ever shot a video over 8 minutes.
Even if there are firmware updates or even recalls I still get to use the camera now and get used to it's features now and can deal with a recall if it happens

 

[adigoks]

It's truly amazing what lengths people go through to convince everyone this camera is perfectly fine as it is, and Canon should not have done anything more to mitigate the constnt heat buildup somehow.
Canon has marketed the movie modes heavily. From the original presentation in this order: 20 fps - AF - ISO 51k - 45MP - 4K120 - 8K

So yeah, it's on the feature list and some people would like it to work without three asterisks behind each video mode. To be clear, I do not expect this camera to work in 8k without limitations, that would be absurd. However shooting 4k you have the choice between 4k120, 4k60 and 4k30 HQ (which all overheat), and 4k30 either line-skipped or cropped, which each brings it's own problems. So your choice is either overheating modes or otherwise flawed modes. Not to mention the R6, which overheats in all 4K modes.

People talking about "noone needs to record this long" fail to see that the heat countdown starts the second you turn on the camera, which certainly does not help any workflow.

I frequently do 4 hour video assignments with two or more cameras that yield about an hour of footage. This is no cinema production, just something anyone with some skills can do on the side. Currently doing this with an 1DX2 (4K60, but no CLog) and a 5D4 (CLog, but no 4K60).
Is it too much to expect a new camera to make this easier? Instead I have to keep an excel sheet in my head when which camera might overheat and which mode I can still use without running down the timer too much, all the while switching off all cameras at the slightest hint of apause.

Is this the video future anyone wanted?

I'm happy for you if you shot photos only, really. This is a great camera. But just because you don't need video doesn't mean the problems shouldn't be fixed.

For the record, I would be happy with up to 4K60 without overheating, and the camera not heating up as much in standy. I'm fine with special modes (4K120 and 8K) running down the clock. Is that still too much to ask from a 4400€ camera in a world where video on ILCs has been common (and expected) for years?

Also you guy do realize that if the camera heats up in standby, that this will degrade ISO performance even if you're not using it? How much is anyone's guess. But is that really what you want, a camera that degrades the longer you let it sit turned on?

For the record I have my R5 preordered and am planning to work around the limitations, hopefully it'll be fine with an external recorder. But I really should not have to rely on hope in this pricerange...

gerald undone had tested R5 recording using atomos external recorder.
he said 4K 60 recording using external recorder is fine & not limited by heat.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1286856342385446912

 

[Stu_bert]

Pg 896-897 of user guide has a table of EF lenses that are supported for 12 FPS mechanical.

Than you!

 

[quilatoo]

Yeah we definitely want nothing to improve over the lowest performance existing kit. That way nobody will be offended.

Eh? The improvement of RF lenses is mainly the width of the mount, right? So we end up with better quality glass outright and amazing stuff like f2 zoom lenses. It hasn't made the EF lenses obsolete though and a big part of Canon's marketing with the launch of the RF mount is its backwards compatibility with existing lenses.

If, to get the most out of a $3,800/£4,200 camera, you actually also need to spend thousands more in upgrading lenses for a new mount then I think it's fair enough to have some general reservations about it. It also removes the advantage Canon has in a customer already being financially committed to their previous lens mount, and puts them squarely in competition with Sony.

Basically, I like Canon cameras and have never considered anything else for "serious" work. I've never been that fussed over the quality of Canon lenses in the past five years or so to think the extra expense over Tamron and Sigma versions is worth it. It would be a bit of a disappointment if those lenses ended up being reduced in ability purely because they're third party rather than a genuine physical characteristic.

 

[quilatoo]

Used it with a Sigma 50mm Art, Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC, worked perfectly so far. Has a way to let non-registered lenses work with IBIS as well, by manually entering the focal length.

Anythings possible, but it didnt happen with the R, and a big part of their strategy is their lens library. Getting IS on my non-IS EF lenses is definitely a selling point to me.

That's cool - using IBIS with Sigma Art lenses actually makes those a potentially interesting purchase for me now.

 

[Starting out EOS R]

There is a chart in the R5 manual for what you can set each dial to. Page 824.

https://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/9/0300039689/01/EOS_R5_Advanced_User_Guide_v1_EN.pdf

I don't have a body yet. But from looking at the list, I guess I would probably play around with selecting AF method, changing flash exposure compensation, or changing picture style just to switch to black and white.

It'll also probably depend on the button customization I do, but that'll take more time to sort through. That chart starts on page 816.

The R5 is like the R in that nearly all the dials, buttons and rings can be customised for almost any function. I use the ring for ISO. The one I love is when you register settings on C1,C2,C3, the C3 option can be set with the video settings you want and then if you press the red button between the top screen and front wheel, this automatically starts recording video at the settings you chose. Press it again and it moves back to stills or whatever you were previously shooting.

I have my Settings as C3 video 4k 35p (as I don't shoot much video), C2 eye detect AF for people with high speed 12FPS and C1 as eye detect AF animal with high speed 12 FPS.

It takes a little while to set up but once done is great.

 

[stevensteven]

Thanks!

The Sony's have a definite CLUNK when shaken/vibrated. I spend a lot of time with mine in a light shoulder bag (read: no padding) and it becomes a distraction when out on a quiet jaunt.

Can It break when it rattles ? of I can run around and shake it and nothing will happen ?

 

[JoTomOz]

Thanks for pointing that out. If this isn’t the death knell for phasing out EF lenses, I don’t know what is.
That 400 2.8 IS vII...sorry 70-200 2.8 vII...out of luck...A lot of people with EF lenses are going to be like WTF?

Yep, I’m disappointed the 135mm f/2 isn’t on that list, I reckon they could have been a bit more upfront about it... as in with RF and select/recent EF lenses

 

[Kiton]

Yep, I’m disappointed the 135mm f/2 isn’t on that list, I reckon they could have been a bit more upfront about it... as in with RF and select/recent EF lenses

I shot people in a rain storm yesterday with the 135 f 2 and it worked just fine for my taste buds.
That 135 is one of the sharpest lenses out there, love the 135 2!

I don't think it hit quite 12, closer to 10 fps and on electronic shutter it didn't hit 20, closer to 17 or 18.
But really, for a lens of its age, I am fine with 17 fps. I am not swapping that great piece of glass any time soon.

 

[Franklyok]

Shit happy sony rumors with petapixel reports that R5 will be shipped by November... Canon is fixing the overheading... That's what is next...

 

[Kiton]

The R5 is like the R in that nearly all the dials, buttons and rings can be customised for almost any function. I use the ring for ISO. The one I love is when you register settings on C1,C2,C3, the C3 option can be set with the video settings you want and then if you press the red button between the top screen and front wheel, this automatically starts recording video at the settings you chose. Press it again and it moves back to stills or whatever you were previously shooting.

I have my Settings as C3 video 4k 35p (as I don't shoot much video), C2 eye detect AF for people with high speed 12FPS and C1 as eye detect AF animal with high speed 12 FPS.

It takes a little while to set up but once done is great.

If you find a way to remove some of the useless shit displayed on the play back screen, I would love to know, I really do not care to see if Flicker is engaged or not etc etc! Thanks!

 

[toodamnice]

I've had a couple hours to test the R5, and Wahhhhhhh overheating, it is garbage and I'm so mad that Canon personally cheated me! I was going to shoot cat videos and weddings in 8K for 6 hours every day but this thing is stupid and an obvious failure. It should only cost 50 dollars. Canon is doomed and crippled us again. I just threw it off my balcony. Just kidding .

The real scoop: So far it is great and I am not encountering anything but being mostly impressed. Adjusting to the form factor of a smaller body and the new controls, etc. but so far so good. Some notes from my first play time:

This is going to make shooting very pleasant and more convenient, and be a robust stills camera in all light and weather, and competent video camera for light and mid duty jobs in moderate to good light. The build feels very solid and elegant and the body is clearly well thought out for the most part. The only thing I have found that is a real negative, is the grip is more squared and smaller than most FF DSLRs and is not nearly as comfortable, and the controls feel a bit close together which is an advantage for reaching some and disadvantage for others.

Ergonomics:

• The thing is silent in electronics shutter and pretty darn quiet mechanical.
• Not a fan of the smaller size and less rounded grip compared to a DSLR. Space and comfort are slightly reduced and controls are not as perfectly placed. It isn't awful, but is the thing I like least so far. I will be buying an L bracket to hopefully make it larger and better balanced. Canon and industry should calm down with the one camera for all purposes and leave pro gear pro- and large for comfort. Also would be easier to pack in features and cool probably.
• The screen is very high quality and great touch response. Articulation feels solid, like it will not be fragile unless you really screw up and ram it into something. Visually, it is on par with a good phone screen, just smaller.
• I still love an optical viewfinder and how much more natural that feels, but there are many advantages to EVF and with this one, it is not awful to look through. You can shoot, operate the menus, and review all in the viewfinder. I particularly like how much larger images look reviewing in the viewfinder.
• Screen and VF brightness lowered from default by one tick look best to me indoors and should save power unless I need the brightness.
• The timeout on the screen and VF can be lowered, but not as far as I think it should be. I want max power savings. The 5D4 had a 2 second timeout on review of images and I think this screen and VF should have that low of an option too. The lowest is 15 seconds currently. You can turn off either VF or screen in menus but would prefer short auto off time options .
• The menu system and display options on screen and in viewfinder will suit anyone, they have done a really great job offering many options for info display and control setup. So many ways to customize to a simple workflow for most tasks. Still miss quick control custom layouts though.
• Batteries fully interchangeable with previous ones, even off brand.
• The magnesium alloy seems different composition, maybe to enhance thermal conductivity closer to copper since the body is the heat sink surface? I can feel the body take heat form my hands very slightly, and that should help dissipate heat from inside. After a long session of constantly playing with everything the body felt barely warm at 78-80 degrees ambient.
• There is a very subtle quiet clunk if you move the un-powered body in a direction with hard enough motion (takes a good shake). This is the IBIS mechanism, which when un-powered, allows the sensor to float on the IBIS suspension. I don't think this rattles at all as some have said. It feels solid still and to me the sound is no bother. When powered, does not happen.
• All buttons seem well placed. The dials are decently placed but a bit close on the top for my large hands. The joystick is up too high but not awfully so. Not nearly so cramped as many mirrorless bricks, but I still wish this smaller-is-better mentality, when we are talking about pro equipment, would stop. Portable stuff should be a niche market. By comparison, the 5D4 feels luxuriant and more natural in the hand. Large lenses also look dumb on a mirrorless but whatever.
• I love the top screen, which I think is e-ink like any kindle and displays the mode even when off .
• You can operate the mode dial like the old one without looking down. Better, you can remove modes you will not use from that rotation order. It could be just a few modes if you want, like Av, M, B, C1, or any other list you desire.
• Everything feels intuitive for the most part. Video configuration and shooting is just easy, and you get good info as you select options about shooting times, etc. Stills basic settings are accessible in several screens and via the dials of course. Getting to deep settings is never more than a couple buttons or touches and much can be customized. Very easy to use overall for any shooter, particularly Canon shooters, and hoping I will get as comfortable with it, or more, as the 5D4 over time.

Performance so far:

• The focus system is amazing. So fast compared to 5D4 even in low light. So many options for different scenarios. Tracking on objects works well but I have not tried face or animal modes yet, but I can tell there is a lot of ability here. Machine learning and later firmware may make this even better still. It is already class leading and 100% coverage focus points is great. Video focus seems reliable, effortless and easy. For stills, I cannot figure out how to get the focus point to move when I move the joystick without first pressing the focus spot button. Time to read the manual.
• I got something near but slightly below the 20FPS with an old 24-105 EF mk1 and off brand battery in a quick unscientific burst test of about 50 images. In electronic shutter only, this thing flies. It did take a while to write the buffer out to my midgrade SD card but I had plenty more buffer to go if I had wanted it.
• IBIS is great. I handheld a 1/6 second on my old 3 stop 24-105 and it was almost as sharp as a 1/100 so I am getting at least 4-5 stops on an old EF lens and could never have hand held that before.
• Image quality looks like a good step up form the 5D4 in clarity, noise, high ISO, and color (slightly). I have only done some quick tests so this is just first impressions. Some reviewers are saying the Canon sensor stills quality is out there with the best of them now, and while the base DR is not the absolute top of the pack, it is not far behind, very good and improved. At high ISO, DR is equal or better than most competitors as it has been since the 5D4 came out with Canon sensors.
• High ISO is looking more usable than the 5D4. Will need to take more subjects to get a better feel. An astrophotography landscape trip ought to put it through the ringer, hopefully I will do that soon.
• Tried some 4K30 and 4K60 low bitrate (haven't bought cards to try higher res or bit rates yet). To me it looks really good compared against my Sony NXCAM HXR-NX80 4K. Of course uncropped full frame, I can get much wider, still clear and sharp with great Canon color, and a way better stabilizer. Haven't done a pixel peeping 4K comparison, but the 5D4 held its own against most 4K options and this should be even better. Won't even get into the nonsense about HQ modes and limits, I did not buy this as a dedicated video camera and don't even have the memory cards for those modes yet. I will still retain dedicated video tools because I don't have this belief any hybrid can do it all yet, and probably not for years to come.
• Shot for only a few minutes of video at a time so far so no comment on heat issues but I doubt for my normal uses I will encounter them. If I need long form video for interviews or documentary (which I only very rarely do) I have a dedicated pro Sony NXCAM camcorder for 1080P (still very appropriate for most jobs) and 4K, and off camera sound capture. That is the most realistic kind of camera for event and documentary work in my opinion. If I was doing full frame video production I would look at the newest Sony, or more likely the SH1, or if I could afford it, a used or new Cinema camera. Hybrids may never do it all just based on engineering trades and physics, despite what all the entitled people think and poor marketing suggestions.

Conclusion so far? Going well, no major regrets. To me, the camera is as advertised as I never latch onto a feature with unrealistic expectation. Field testing on some tough shoots soon should tell me if I love it, but I already like it. Curious to see how others are getting along with their R5/6 if you were able to get one.

I want to thank you for this excellent review. I am very much an amateur but I really want an R5 or an R6. I have 2 6Ds and I am looking to sell my new 6D Mk II to Adorama. I storm chase and love to take sky and landscape shots. I was leaning towards the R6 for cost, but I want a few more MPs than the 20 MPs I have with my current cameras. I would like to be able to have more detail so I can crop when needed.

Most of you folks are more knowledgeable than me so I want to ask if you feel there is a big difference between the sensor in the R6 and the ones in my 6Ds. I am sure everything else about the R6 is a vast improvement over my old cameras.

Reviews like this one are very helpful to people like me. Thanks again.

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Most of you folks are more knowledgeable than me so I want to ask if you feel there is a big difference between the sensor in the R6 and the ones in my 6Ds.

In terms of dynamic range for landscapes, it'll be very drastic improvement.

 

[Eric Mazzone]

Has anyones local shops gotten the R5 in? Mine was supposed to get some in for those who preordered through them, but I haven't gotten a call and IF I have to wait until November I WILL be jumping ship to Sony and returning ALL the RF gear I've purchased for a full refund.