When is the M5 Shipping?

[Loswr]

The tripod socket has many flaws, and I think this is the reason for
1) practically "giving the adapter away" (forcebundling it) with initial sales and
2) omitting the tripod socket.

The flaws are:
1) The contact plane towards the tripod is too small, it will never be turnproof
2) The contact area towards the adapter is also very small, with a longer telephoto one will likely rip it out of the adapter

I think that we will soon see a version II.

Are you referring to the tripod socket on the M5 body, or the tripod foot on the adapter. If you're referring to the adapter's foot, your 'flaws' are bogus.

The foot of the adapter offers ideal anti-twist if used with a proper plate, since they included a hole for the pin of a video plate. I use an RRS B26 plate on the foot, and there's no twisting at all.

As for the a long telephoto being 'likely rip it out of the adapter', the adapter does just fine with a 70-200/2.8L IS II, so I have no doubt it would do equally well with any lens that doesn't come with a tripod collar.

 

[Don Haines]

I am not a typical buyer, but I am thinking of getting a M5......

What would I use it for? Hiking, kayaking, and all those times that I would not bring my "real" camera and lenses along with me.

I would probably own 2 "M" lenses, the 22F2 and the Tamron 18-200. The 22F2 would be the primary lens..... after all, the whole point of going to a tiny system is to keep things tiny.

I would NOT be using it with my EF lenses (slapping on a Tammy 150-600 negates any size savings) and would not be using it on a tripod...... but my hiking pole can be used as a monopod so it would see some limited use there.

The whole idea of a tiny system is that it is tiny. Slap on big lenses, carry along a tripod, a 600EX and a better beamer, etc, etc.... and you have negated the thing you bought it for.

Just my $0.02......

 

[Quackator]

Most people will not use the tripod socket with a video tripod,
so they won't have that register pin.

Also, the lever towards the hull of the adaptor still presents
a potential point of failure. At least mine is easy to wiggle
because it has play towards the adaptor, and I personally
don't trust it.

Of course the "free" adaptor is marketing speech. It is a forced
bundle to get rid of it and flush the warehouses.

After they are depleted, the camera will be available for 999 Euro
(Europe) likely before Xmas. The regular price for the adaptor
including the tripod socket is 129 Euro.

So the charge you one extra Euro and save on the tripod socket
while at the same time getting rid of stock surplus.

I am much more appalled to see that the M5 can't be tethered via
USB or Wifi to a computer - no remote shooting.

That is much worsened by the fact that even the cheapest rebel
can do this at a third of the price.

And there is one real bug. Many people will assign the M.Fn button
to switch between display and EVF. While in review/play mode,
this button is dysfunctional. You have to revert to shooting mode
in order to switch between display and EVF.

 

[lw]

Oh, ok. I guess multiple retailers are lying.

That's not what I was saying. I said some retailers claim it is free. But as you can't buy the camera without it, it can't really be described as free. It is priced into the kit you are buying. They may as well say the strap in the box is free.

If it was free, I would be able to buy the camera alone at the same price. I can't. I can only buy it with the adaptor. Ergo its part of the kit price. As I pointed out Canon themselves in their store do NOT claim it is free.

As for "enthusiasts" the 7D Mark II and the 6D are targeted at that same market, and cost more than the M5. So it would seem that your view differs significantly from Canon's view.

I was thinking of the 7D MkII as more a pro model.

As for a 6D, then the M5 is currently more expensive in the UK as I said.
Best price for a 6D body, from an official retailer is £949 after £100 cashback from Canon
Best price for an M5 body is £995
(source camerapricebuster)

that's an image of Canon's list of enthusiast DSLRs. http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/product_finder/cameras/digital_slr/enthusiasts/
Why would the M5 be on that page? Hint, it isn't a DSLR.

 

[Loswr]

that's an image of Canon's list of enthusiast DSLRs. http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/product_finder/cameras/digital_slr/enthusiasts/
Why would the M5 be on that page? Hint, it isn't a DSLR.

I wasn't expecting the M5 to be on a list of dSLRs, but...

I was thinking of the 7D MkII as more a pro model.

Hint, you were wrong (according to Canon, which was the point of the graphic).

 

[Deleted member 378664]

Canon apparently believes that only a very small fraction of M-series buyers own/use a tripod

But than they should at least offer the possibility to this small fraction (including me) to buy this tripod foot seperately. As long as they don't they shall include it in the kit. You can't buy it seperately to date. So for this small fraction of clients the adaptor is only worth the half.

It is nothing wrong for a company to decide to sell something seperately in their point of view but they can't do one step (leaving out the tripod foot) without the other (not selling it seperately).

Sometime they decided to leave it out of the kit and even changed the wording on the box that it is not included. They missed to change the wording in the manual accordingly. But I guess this would have eaten their savings of leaving out the tripod foot. They can't state in their manuals you should use this tripod foot when using a tripod and aren't able to sell you this part.

Together with the decision to leave it out of the package they should also have decided to offer this tripod foot in their shops. Maybe they even did decide so and there is hope that they "only" have problems with manufacturing and bringing it to market. Let's wait some weeks.

Frank

 

[Loswr]

Canon apparently believes that only a very small fraction of M-series buyers own/use a tripod

But than they should at least offer the possibility to this small fraction (including me) to buy this tripod foot seperately. As long as they don't they shall include it in the kit. You can't buy it seperately to date. So for this small fraction of clients the adaptor is only worth the half.

Together with the decision to leave it out of the package they should also have decided to offer this tripod foot in their shops. Maybe they even did decide so and there is hope that they "only" have problems with manufacturing and bringing it to market. Let's wait some weeks.

Absolutely agreed, they should offer it separately. The M5 itself isn't even available globally yet, so no doubt they have more pressing priorities. I'm sure they'll offer the adapter tripod foot as a separate accessory at some point in the future.

 

[AvTvM]

1. target audience for M5 are mainly existing Canon DSLR and EF/EF-S lens owners. nikon users will not buy M5. Fuji users will not. Sony users will not. some first time buyers might. they dont need an adapter at all, since they won't have EF/EF-S glass in their posession.

2. tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type. my small travel bag contains EOS-M, 18-55, 22/2 and depending on occasion 11-22 and/or 55-200. no need for adapter. OR if i want subject isolation and or expect low light situations, EF 50/1.8 STM or EF 40/2.8 STM. plus adapter with foot, equipped with arca compatible small plate, twist proof. construction and mechanical stability of adaptor + foot is excellent by the way. i also öike the fact, that tripod foot is detachable tool free.
AND aleays along is a cullman copter small table-top tripod https://www.amazon.de/Cullmann-Multistativ-inkl-CB2-7-Kugelkopf/dp/B0045HKJZU equipped with tiny ball head and further upgraded with small arca compatible clamp. any time i encounter shutter times not securely i use it. it is small, cheap and sturdy enough for M plus adapter plus (a smaller) EF-lens. in a pinch it may also be used as a baton for self defense.

i shall post images of gear and usage tomorrow (if i get around to it).

it is totally inacceptable by canon to cheap out on that tripod foot in a kit bundle. with adapter. even when i will buy m5 "body only" (whenever it becomes available) since i already have all EF-M lenses and adapter with foot.

stupid, Canon!

 

[Don Haines]

Tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type.

A very valid point.

Earlier I had said that I could not ever see myself using an M5 on a tripod.... mostly because I would never use my P/S camera on a tripod..... but I was wrong. I have never used my P/S camera on a full size tripod, but it has been used many times on a gorillapod flexible tripod. I can easily see me with a M5, 22F2 lens, and a gorillapod holding it to my canoe as I paddle along.

 

[Loswr]

2. tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type. my small travel bag contains EOS-M, 18-55, 22/2 and depending on occasion 11-22 and/or 55-200. no need for adapter. OR if i want subject isolation and or expect low light situations, EF 50/1.8 STM or EF 40/2.8 STM. plus adapter with foot, equipped with arca compatible small plate, twist proof. construction and mechanical stability of adaptor + foot is excellent by the way. i also öike the fact, that tripod foot is detachable tool free.

Given that the adapter + 50/1.8 or 40/2.8 are smaller than some native M lenses, you're just supporting my point that there's not much of a need for the mount adapter foot in a 'portable' kit.

Tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type.

A very valid point.

Earlier I had said that I could not ever see myself using an M5 on a tripod.... mostly because I would never use my P/S camera on a tripod..... but I was wrong. I have never used my P/S camera on a full size tripod, but it has been used many times on a gorillapod flexible tripod. I can easily see me with a M5, 22F2 lens, and a gorillapod holding it to my canoe as I paddle along.

True, I took the 2.5 s exposure below with the M2 and M11-22 on a Gorillapod attached to the railing of one of the Golden Jubilee Bridges. But again, these aren't things that require a tripod foot on the adapter, and I, for one, would not be using an M-adapted 24-70/2.8L or 11-24L on a Gorillapod dangling over the Thames.

 

[lw]

I did get a reply from Canon Customer Support (impressive that they replied at the weekend), but I am not 100% sure they understood the issue.
I carefully explained my reasons why I thought they should include the tripod mount (e.g. the manual tells you to use it, and the adaptor fouls my tripods).
The representative apoligised saying "With reference to the Item Checklist within the Mount Adapter EF-EOS M Instruction Manual, the missing article mentioned by you, should have been included in the box upon purchase" and gave me the number of the spares department who would deal with this and send it out as long as I claimed within 14 days of the original receipt of the camera.

But it isn't really a 'missing article' of course to the extent that Canon never meant for it to be in the box anyway, so it will be interesting to see what the spares department says on Monday morning.

Though the rep is correct that the checklist of parts in the adaptor instruction manual does say the mount should be there. So Canon should have thought this through a bit more carefully I suppose before simply removing it.

 

[AvTvM]

It is totally absurd. For ONCE Canon has designed something *really right". Nice, simple, mechanically solid adapter with a perfectly stable, nicely detachable (tool-less!) tripod foot. Next thing you know is Canon SKIMPING on that tripod foot. For peanuts in cost saving. Printing the warning "does not contain tripod foot" in 5 languages on the kit box probably costs more than including the damn foot.

And yes, while it is possible to use small/light EF or EF-S lenses like 40/2.8, 50/1.8 STM, 60/2.8 Macro via adapter without tripod foot, handling is much better if center of gravity is directly over ballhead. Especially on a light & small Micro-Tripod/Gorillapod with limited holding power. Even more so with using beefier lenses, eg. EF 100/2.8 L IS Macro with adapter.

Images show use with EF 50/1.8 STM, without and with tripod foot. Why should we ever accept having to use a subpar solution, when a *really right" solution exists? Nevertheless, first thing that happens on this forum is Canon Defense League immediately rushing to the defense of Canon and excusing this dirty scam ...

Last image shows what typically goes into my compact Hama bag [L 20 x D 14 x H18 cm] for city trips: EOS M, 18-55, 22, 55-200, 50/1.8 STM + adapter + tripod foot. Plus Cullmann Copter mini tripod stuck into flexible mesh side pocket.

btw.: I use small/slim, non-twist Arca-compatible plates branded "Mengs" or "Sirui" TY-C10
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00IR7CZQ0/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3JZTMFUUQ40AH
and clamp "DC-38Q". https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00K18K28G/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3JZTMFUUQ40AH

Very reasonably priced, good quality China-stuff, on par with and fully interchangeable with my other - much more expensive - arca-compatible plates/clamps by Markins, Novoflex etc.

 

[Deleted member 378664]

I did get a reply from Canon Customer Support (impressive that they replied at the weekend), but I am not 100% sure they understood the issue.
I carefully explained my reasons why I thought they should include the tripod mount (e.g. the manual tells you to use it, and the adaptor fouls my tripods).
The representative apoligised saying "With reference to the Item Checklist within the Mount Adapter EF-EOS M Instruction Manual, the missing article mentioned by you, should have been included in the box upon purchase"

So it seems even some representatives at Canon do not know about the tripod foot left out by purpose and do not know the printing on the box.

@lw: regarding your plate not allowing to be mounted on the camera when the adaptor is mounted, I just tried my Novoflex QPL SLim 39 plate with arca swiss compatible profile.
This fits and even the display can be tilted to some degree.

 

[Loswr]

Hejnar makes nice, small plates that should work well on the M5.

 

[AvTvM]

Hejnar makes nice, small plates that should work well on the M5.

yep, small plates will work. Just for interests sake: how much are these Hejnar plates ?

The "Mengs" TY-C10 plate i use is a bit longer 27mm (x 38mm wide) and currently available for € 8,19 a piece on amazon. It does interfere a bit with battery door on EOS M, but it is still possible to change batteries or SD card with plate mounted. Very similar, same size "Sirui" TY-C10 plate has no anti-twist lip.

 

[Loswr]

Hejnar makes nice, small plates that should work well on the M5.

yep, small plates will work. Just for interests sake: how much are these Hejnar plates ?

The "Mengs" TY-C10 plate i use is a bit longer 27mm (x 38mm wide) and currently available for € 8,19 a piece on amazon. It does interfere a bit with battery door on EOS M, but it is still possible to change batteries or SD card with plate mounted. Very similar, same size "Sirui" TY-C10 plate has no anti-twist lip.

The hejnar plate is US$20, is available with or without an anti-twist lip, and allows sufficient opening of the battery door on the M (or it could be mounted off-center and the door could fully open past 90°).

 

[Sporgon]

6. This thread, which shows me, that the tripod mount is delivered in UK despite the hint on the box.

Sorry if I confused earlier, but I have updated the post.

In the UK the tripod foot is NOT included. I think this is the same across the EU.

My unboxing video shows that the adaptor is boxed identically to yours with the note that the mount is not included

Both mine and my brothers adapters bought in the UK have got the tripod adapter included.

 

[Loswr]

6. This thread, which shows me, that the tripod mount is delivered in UK despite the hint on the box.

Sorry if I confused earlier, but I have updated the post.

In the UK the tripod foot is NOT included. I think this is the same across the EU.

My unboxing video shows that the adaptor is boxed identically to yours with the note that the mount is not included

Both mine and my brothers adapters bought in the UK have got the tripod adapter included.

Are you referring to the adapter bundled with the EOS M5? That's the issue here, I don't think anyone is suggesting an adapter bought on its own lacks the foot (although that will start to happen as those bundled adapters start showing up for sale on eBay, etc.).

 

[Sporgon]

6. This thread, which shows me, that the tripod mount is delivered in UK despite the hint on the box.

Sorry if I confused earlier, but I have updated the post.

In the UK the tripod foot is NOT included. I think this is the same across the EU.

My unboxing video shows that the adaptor is boxed identically to yours with the note that the mount is not included

Both mine and my brothers adapters bought in the UK have got the tripod adapter included.

Are you referring to the adapter bundled with the EOS M5? That's the issue here, I don't think anyone is suggesting an adapter bought on its own lacks the foot (although that will start to happen as those bundled adapters start showing up for sale on eBay, etc.).

Oooops, sorry I'll go back to sleep

 

[lw]

My 100mm macro looks particularly unbalanced