A high-megapixel EOS R camera is still on the roadmap [CR2]

[Ozarker]

While a lot of the 'crippled' talk is people not understanding technology, there are bits where Canon did cut functionality just for the sake of segmentation. An obvious example is that the RP silent shutter mode doesn't allow you to set shutterspeed nor aperture, it's a 'scene mode'.
I'm not sure what to make of the M6II forcing a full mechanical or full electronic shutter, I would love to have EFCS as an option.

Of course. At the same time, the R doesn't do automatic focus stacking.

Segmentation, though, is not arbitrary. Canon and every other manufacturer, does what they think will generate the maximum amount of profit. What frustrates me with the throwing around of the word "crippled" is the implication that no other camera manufacturer "cripples" their cameras. Cripple has a strong negative connotation and belies the writer's lack of understanding when it comes to developing, marketing, and selling products.

Features such as DPAF showed up in the 70D first, I believe. That and the touch screen and articulating screen. They are blind, this "intentionally crippled" crowd, when it comes to features trickling up the product lines. The M6 Mark II is another example.

 

[ahsanford]

While a lot of the 'crippled' talk is people not understanding technology, there are bits where Canon did cut functionality just for the sake of segmentation.

Crippling / nerfing = what Canon does

Segmentation / feature set differentiation = why Canon does it

...but it's still the same phenomenon. Canon wants you to buy the nicer model, and they are very clever about how they do that.

- A

 

[mpmark]

I don't give a rat's ass to be honest, but Canon will use this to claim the highest resolution 35mm camera crown. That's marketing kinda talk, in a grown up world. But as product proposition is good too; they try to stay away from copying Sony's ff mirrorless line and differentiate.

Actually I'm really glad the R5 will have 45mpix; that's a very sweet spot for me and I probably would not need this camera.

I agree with you about the R5 45MP, plenty for me as well and I dont care too much about the higher MP model.

 

[Del Paso]

This year's Bugatti only does 235 MPH. But I endure this hardship nonetheless.

- A

How dare they!

 

[ahsanford]

I know they have been doing well on the RF lenses but until I see it for myself and the reviews validate it, I simply do not care if Canon does a high res camera. I simply don't trust them. The 5DS has 50 megapixels and when it first came out people were excited. But the ISO on that camera is what, 6400? And you don't even want to go near that max for noise. To me they could do 70 megapixels they could do 80. Doesn't matter. The real question is how does the sensor handle noise? How is the dynamic range? Because megapixels alone as a criteria is absolutely foolish.

...unless you only live on or around base ISO. Studio folks bringing light to the party and landscapers sitting on a tripod at ISO 100 generally don't care about high res leading to more noise.

Consider: some folks have great Canon glass and want to keep using it, and don't really care how Canon stacks up to Sony's sensors. The 5DS and 5DSR probably have served them well for a long time.

- A

 

[mpmark]

Not necessarily. High res seems to hold a high asking price very effectively. 5DS held price like a champ, the D850 the same, and we haven't seen the A7R4 price move at all since launch.

So high res may not be about being top dog -- it may just about tenting up the pricing in general to make a new R6 or again 5D4 at $2500 seem like a bargain.

- A

you missed my point but thats ok, I get what you are saying though.

 

[Architect1776]

Of course. At the same time, the R doesn't do automatic focus stacking.

Segmentation, though, is not arbitrary. Canon and every other manufacturer, does what they think will generate the maximum amount of profit. What frustrates me with the throwing around of the word "crippled" is the implication that no other camera manufacturer "cripples" their cameras. Cripple has a strong negative connotation and belies the writer's lack of understanding when it comes to developing, marketing, and selling products.

Features such as DPAF showed up in the 70D first, I believe. That and the touch screen and articulating screen. They are blind, this "intentionally crippled" crowd, when it comes to features trickling up the product lines. The M6 Mark II is another example.

That term, crippled, is a favorite of the Sony/Nikon fanboy trolls.
Most all what is currently state of the art is a Canon development dating back over 30+ years.
DPAF still leads the way by far and produces the focus that is smooth and accurate that all others totally lack including Sony which struggles in this like all others.
Canon looks at the market and gives features and price to appeal to the largest segment of users. Yes there are hard core users that want it all in one camera. Well that would put it out of the price point for nearly all of us who take photos for real fun, family gatherings, vacation snap shots and our cats doing odd things. There are many models for rabid users and if you want it all get the 1DX MIII which seems to right now trounce all other competitors by a good margin. And if you are truly serious about real video then you will use the C500 MII anyway rather than a DSLR or mirrorless.

 

[keithcooper]

Perfectly said. Btw has someone actually said they do not want their camera to be able to shoot high fps? I find that difficult to believe. And yes, there are plenty of low megapixel cameras available for anyone who wants those.

well... yes, myself - if it's there I'd hardly complain, but...

...Given some arbitrary 'amount' of updating to spread around on a new model, my personal preference is to minimise the allocation towards FPS and video.

That's not what a big part of the 'market' wants, so I accept that it will be more of a niche product I'd like to get.
In the past I used a 1Ds and 1Ds mk3 which were fast(ish) but the times I actually pushed their FPS limits were extremely uncommon.

 

[Silvertt7]

...unless you only live on or around base ISO. Studio folks bringing light to the party and landscapers sitting on a tripod at ISO 100 generally don't care about high res leading to more noise.

Consider: some folks have great Canon glass and want to keep using it, and don't really care how Canon stacks up to Sony's sensors. The 5DS and 5DSR probably have served them well for a long time.

- A

...that's like saying the shortcomings don't matter--as long as you have perfect lighting. That is a laughable excuse. That camera had junk ISO, plain and simple. And your comment about landscapes... I shot mostly landscapes when I was shooting with the 5D2 and 5D3... you are almost NEVER in perfect lighting conditions when you're shooting landscapes. There are plenty of times when ISO noise performance matters for landscapes.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

I think that Canon has decided to keep the old camera designators but drop the "D" and replace a letter R in front. Thus a R5 will be equivalent in purpose to a 5D series model like a 5D MK V, and a R6 will be a 6D update.

A high MP R5 may carry a R5S model. That would be more compatible with Canon numbering schemes where the lower numbers are higher models. If a 7D replacement comes, it might be a R7.

Would a flagship be a R1 or a R1X?

 

[ahsanford]

...that's like saying the shortcomings don't matter--as long as you have perfect lighting. That is a laughable excuse. That camera had junk ISO, plain and simple. And your comment about landscapes... I shot mostly landscapes when I was shooting with the 5D2 and 5D3... you are almost NEVER in perfect lighting conditions when you're shooting landscapes. There are plenty of times when ISO noise performance matters for landscapes.

No, I'm arguing Canon jammed a sensor full of pixels full-well knowing it wouldn't be a star from a noise perspective. They sell other sensors for that need.

They felt the high detail camp (presumably studio and tripod landscape shooters) needed more resolution, so they gave it to them. That's all.

- A

 

[ahsanford]

Would a flagship be a R1 or a R1X?

The original X (1DX1) was meant to have the X represent a merging of the 1Ds and 1D lines. But speed clearly won and resolution clearly lost.

So to keep the X around would be an 8 year long troll of the 1Ds / 5DS userbase. R1 would be my pick.

- A

 

[Romain]

I have a question. Do you think next very high res FF bodies will extinguish the MF market? Or is there a future for it? With all the new techs coming in mirrorless bodies, the prices and the flexibility it provides in real life, how could MF shooters resist to switch?..

 

[slclick]

I think that Canon has decided to keep the old camera designators but drop the "D" and replace a letter R in front. Thus a R5 will be equivalent in purpose to a 5D series model like a 5D MK V, and a R6 will be a 6D update.

A high MP R5 may carry a R5S model. That would be more compatible with Canon numbering schemes where the lower numbers are higher models. If a 7D replacement comes, it might be a R7.

Would a flagship be a R1 or a R1X?

The 1DX was the 5th in the 1D line, which didn't denote the 5th model but a new line within a line. Crazy! We need a white board and a bunch of dry erase markers to keep up!

*Edit*

I was wrong it was the 9th and Michael Clark is once again here to save the day. Thanks , Mick.

 

[ahsanford]

I have a question. Do you think next very high res FF bodies will extinguish the MF market? Or is there a future for it? With all the new techs coming in mirrorless bodies, the prices and the flexibility it provides in real life, how could MF shooters resist to switch?..

MF will shock us with an even higher resolution model, fear not. They always play that card.

- A

 

[Ozarker]

Crippling / nerfing = what Canon does

Segmentation / feature set differentiation = why Canon does it

...but it's still the same phenomenon. Canon wants you to buy the nicer model, and they are very clever about how they do that.

- A

And the great thing is that "nicer" means different things to different folks based on use case = Another reason they do it.

There isn't anything insidious about it. I think that is what "crippled" implies. Nerfed is far better, in my opinion. Better yet is understanding that every manufacturer with multiple products in the same category at different price points do exactly the same thing.

Cars are the most obvious example of this in my mind.

 

[BillB]

I know they have been doing well on the RF lenses but until I see it for myself and the reviews validate it, I simply do not care if Canon does a high res camera. I simply don't trust them. The 5DS has 50 megapixels and when it first came out people were excited. But the ISO on that camera is what, 6400? And you don't even want to go near that max for noise. To me they could do 70 megapixels they could do 80. Doesn't matter. The real question is how does the sensor handle noise? How is the dynamic range? Because megapixels alone as a criteria is absolutely foolish.

If I remember right, the S in 5DS stands for Studio. At least to me, a Studio disegnation implies that the camera is intended for an environment in which light levels can be controlled, but there may be requirements for very high resolution photographs.

 

[Dragon]

So with a high mp body like this shutter becomes a huge factor. Will shooting it at mRaw or sRaw get rid of that problem slightly or will the camera always require a higher shutter speeds (or strobes) to get tack sharp images etc

A global e-shutter would be nice .

 

[Romain]

MF will shock us with an even higher resolution model, fear not. They always play that card.

- A

That's what i thought, but in term of prices they'll must make much more effort than in term of resolution. Because big bump in res + add advanced techs + more affordable prices = very huge challenge for them. The gap between APS-C/FF/MF is closer and closer. How could they maintain the distance without profit losses?

 

[Treyarnon]

Current meaning not that old as that camera. i have the camera. the shake is more noticable when you zoom in than my other cameras I own. only when you zoom alll the waaayyy innn.

The 5Ds is still a current camera (not been replaced or phased out)
I have one to. There is NO more noticeable shake compared to other cameras when compared at the same resolution.