Canon EOS R5 pricing is still unknown, don’t believe the reports [CR0]

[neurorx]

However, it wouldn't be the first time a product was introduced that had a feature which turned out to be not all that useful in practice.

That much is true.

 

[H. Jones]

However, it wouldn't be the first time a product was introduced that had a feature which turned out to be not all that useful in practice.

This is an area where I think the camera's 8K raw with DPAF gives me *huge* hope for the stills shooting. If the camera can display a live video feed with autofocus while recording 8K raw at 30 FPS, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to shoot raw 45 megapixel images at 20 FPS with no delay or loss in autofocus.

That alone makes me absolutely giddy with excitement for this camera.

Another thing I'll say for that too is, I hope in mechanical shutter they briefly blackout the frame or use a continuous feed as well. I'd rather experience blackout like a DSLR than a brief incredibly irritating freezing of the frame during shutter action. Just feels more difficult to follow action when you're seeing a frozen image rather than just a brief flicker of black.

 

[usern4cr]

Another thing I'll say for that too is, I hope in mechanical shutter they briefly blackout the frame or use a continuous feed as well. I'd rather experience blackout like a DSLR than a brief incredibly irritating freezing of the frame during shutter action. Just feels more difficult to follow action when you're seeing a frozen image rather than just a brief flicker of black.

You'd rather see an image flicker & blackout in the EVF than have the frame hold the last image while it runs at (mechanical) 12 fps? Wow, I'd have never thought it would be better that way, but I've never tried it either way.

If it's going at (electronic) 20fps would you still feel the same way? I'm just curious. If you've had experience following action both ways then I find that kind of a revelation in the way I should be thinking about the EVF. I wonder what the image bending will be at (electronic) 20 fps with fast moving subjects? I assume there should be little to no bending with a mechanical shutter, right?

 

[Dexter75]

The R5 will be at least $5k. Anyone who thiks it’s launching at the same price the 5DIV with half the specs did FOUR YEARS AGO is dreaming.

 

[usern4cr]

The R5 will be at least $5k. Anyone who thiks it’s launching at the same price the 5DIV with half the specs did FOUR YEARS AGO is dreaming.

We all have our opinions. No need to be insulting.
Go ahead and expect at least $5K.
I'll go ahead and expect $3 to $3.5K.
Who cares?
Neither of us know.
But we can both be civil.

 

[brad-man]

$3.5k - $4k. Just sayin...

 

[privatebydesign]

I've been using 5DS cameras for a couple of years now, and the conclusion I have come to is that the huge native output size is good for strong cropping of the image and still retaining a large output size, and of course, printing huge prints. Even then, at normal viewing distances you will not see the difference between a good, steady 24mp FF shot interpolated up to the same output size.

Exactly, much though we might like to refuse to accept that fact when people actually do the tests it is proven to be true.

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-5ds-print-performance/

Bottom line, nothing beats content...

 

[sanj]

The R5 will be at least $5k. Anyone who thiks it’s launching at the same price the 5DIV with half the specs did FOUR YEARS AGO is dreaming.

Time will tell my friend.

 

[MinoltaSRT101]

Any talk of pricing of the R5 is completely speculative. My speculation is that Canon will price the R5 at $5k, but offer a $500 to $1,000 rebate until the pandemic restrictions abate. I think that temporary price point will help establish the R5 market share and still set the long term price at a point that acknowledges the significant advancement in specs that the R5 represents.

 

[shawn]

The R5 will be at least $5k. Anyone who thiks it’s launching at the same price the 5DIV with half the specs did FOUR YEARS AGO is dreaming.

People seem to think that the video specs mean Canon is trying to move upmarket, but I don't think that is the case at all. In fact I think it's the exact opposite. They're trying to draw in more downmarket customers who might be on the fence about a variety of cameras by tempting them to spend a little more for the improved video specs. If they price it too high they'll be out of reach to a lot of these downmarket customers. $5,000 is way too high, I actually expect this camera to be cheaper than the 5D IV to improve its attainability.

 

[unfocused]

This is an area where I think the camera's 8K raw with DPAF gives me *huge* hope for the stills shooting. If the camera can display a live video feed with autofocus while recording 8K raw at 30 FPS, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to shoot raw 45 megapixel images at 20 FPS with no delay or loss in autofocus...

I wouldn't make that assumption. There is a significant difference between focusing for video and focusing for stills, especially when trying to follow action.

 

[SecureGSM]

Not necessarily true, remember the original point of contention was that a higher pixel sensor alwyas needs to be used with a tripod otherwise camera movement is visible. I pointed out that at same sized output the camera movement is the same so camera shake/subject movement is the same, it might be resolved better with the higher mp but not necessarily.

Picture this scenario, take a picture with a 6D II at a hand held speed and reproduction size you consider just acceptable, by definition you are defining the airy disc size/blur arc angle, now do that with a 5DSr, there is no more detail in the 50mp image as there isn't even detail the lower mp sensor could resolve if higher technique had been used in this specific scenario, either subject and or camera movement limited the resolution before the lower mp count got close to being reached. That doesn't preclude the scenario you talked about, and Sporgon is very experienced with the 5DS, but it just isn't necessarily true in the specific scenario under discussion and is a confusing sidestep. Now at 100% the 5DSr sensor will have blur across more pixels, but the arc will be the same angle, but at the chosen output it will give no more resolution, just 'better defined' same angled blur.

One of the reasons I left Photo.net years ago was because I was pilloried in the medium format threads because I maintained, and illustrated/proved, nobody could tell the difference between a medium format 1GB film scan and a 4mp 1D when both were reduced to 720px in line images, and it was true, but they didn't like hearing that their magical "medium format look" was utter bullsh!t.

++++ nobody could tell the difference between a medium format 1GB film scan and a 4mp 1D when both were reduced to 720px in line images, and it was true, but they didn't like hearing that their magical "medium format look" was utter bullsh!t.

A.M.: oh, that’s heresy. how dare you!

 

[privatebydesign]

++++ nobody could tell the difference between a medium format 1GB film scan and a 4mp 1D when both were reduced to 720px in line images, and it was true, but they didn't like hearing that their magical "medium format look" was utter bullsh!t.

A.M.: oh, that’s heresy. how dare you!

They did drum me out because of it, but I really didn't care!

 

[H. Jones]

You'd rather see an image flicker & blackout in the EVF than have the frame hold the last image while it runs at (mechanical) 12 fps? Wow, I'd have never thought it would be better that way, but I've never tried it either way.

If it's going at (electronic) 20fps would you still feel the same way? I'm just curious. If you've had experience following action both ways then I find that kind of a revelation in the way I should be thinking about the EVF. I wonder what the image bending will be at (electronic) 20 fps with fast moving subjects? I assume there should be little to no bending with a mechanical shutter, right?

So I've tried a little bit of everything since I normally use 1D cameras, use an EOS R at my day job, and have tried out the A9. Anytime the EOS R freezes the frame between shots, it just feels really unnatural to me and it honestly throws me off. It makes everything into a bit of a slideshow effect where I find my muscle memory is slightly overreacting because the image view is still showing where things were after I've already moved, versus not showing anything and letting me assume motion. It's been a big annoyance to me on the EOS R. I know this is a hugely personal preference and some may not feel the same, so this is an area where I'd appreciate a user setting to decide.

In regards to the 20 FPS electronic, I'd prefer it to work like the A9's 20 FPS. Nothing changes or slows in the viewfinder when you take a photo except for a white box around the frame. As much I did not like the A9 for other reasons, I'd say this is the best-case scenario, since having a nonstop live feed of your subject is the absolute easiest way to track your subject.

You are right though, the EOS R has a lot of warping in electronic shutter, but I hope the 20 FPS of the EOS R means they have a much faster sensor readout with less warping. Most of the assignments I do at my day job are slow-paced and I've been able to use the EOS R's silent shutter when I really need to, but most of the time I use the mechanical shutter anyway to save me from losing any images to bad warping with sudden movements.

 

[Michael Clark]

I don't see that happening. If you need a 1Dx for sports, you need a 1Dx. If there aren't any sports to shoot, then you don't need to buy anything. An R5 is not going to be a suitable substitute and sports shooters won't have extra cash sitting around to buy a new body just to play with it.

Maybe, maybe not. Until we're able to test the R5, no one really know for sure. Until then it's all conjecture.

I do know at least a few sports shooters who would love to have the Live View capabilities of the 1D X Mark III (because they feel they are superior to the PDAF AF system used with OVF shooting) while using an EVF. If the R5 offers that, it will be much better suited for sports than you are assuming.

 

[x4dow]

people that are assuming this camera will be 6000+ because its "better than cinema cameras/wont canibalise C100/C200/etc" are forgetting the likelyhood of this camera doing 4k with line skipping and pixel binning (terrible detail/moire/iso performance at 4k). I suspect the 8k on this camera will look great, but the 4k will likely line skip (at least at 60/120p) and look terrible in comparison with the competition.

For me, as long as the 4k120 on this looks better than the sony's hd120p, i'm happy. I can live with a little moire and slight lack of sharpness.

Because the camera will likely not full readout and downsample the whole sensor into 4k (remember, they only said "no crop", if was 8k downsampled to 4k , they would have said "full sensor readout" instead of just "no crop"), this camera will be justified to be priced around 3800-4500 IMO.

I would guess that the R5 will be the "A7R" and that the R6, even if only does 4k60, will likely do so with full sensor readout and downsampling like the 1dx, making it actually the better video camera if you plan to shoot 4k24p and 4k60p. I would also not be surprised to see 5.5k raw on it (assuming it has the 20mp sensor rumored or potentially the 1dx sensor)

 

[Michael Clark]

You'd rather see an image flicker & blackout in the EVF than have the frame hold the last image while it runs at (mechanical) 12 fps? Wow, I'd have never thought it would be better that way, but I've never tried it either way.

If it's going at (electronic) 20fps would you still feel the same way? I'm just curious. If you've had experience following action both ways then I find that kind of a revelation in the way I should be thinking about the EVF. I wonder what the image bending will be at (electronic) 20 fps with fast moving subjects? I assume there should be little to no bending with a mechanical shutter, right?

That all depends on the sensor's readout speed compared to the shutter curtains' transit time.

Presumably a sensor that can record the video frame rates this thing has been confirmed by Canon to be capable of will have faster readout than anything we've seen to date in the still/hybrid market space.

On the other hand, 12 fps mechanical allows about 80 milliseconds (1/12 second) per frame. Of course a large part of that will be to reset the second shutter curtain, allow the sensor to be exposed for AF/metering between each frame, reset the first curtain, etc. The fastest full frame DSLRs from Canon have had shutter curtain transit times in the 2.5-3 millisecond range. The slower entry level DSLRs have transit times around 4 milliseconds (to cover the shorter sensor height). One can probably safely assume the mechanical shutter curtains will not be much, if any slower, than the latest FF DSLRs.

So we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Michael Clark]

I wouldn't make that assumption. There is a significant difference between focusing for video and focusing for stills, especially when trying to follow action.

Yet you're making an awful big assumption that the R5 won't have similar AF capability to what the 1D X Mark III in Live View has already demonstrated.

 

[Michael Clark]

In regards to the 20 FPS electronic, I'd prefer it to work like the A9's 20 FPS. Nothing changes or slows in the viewfinder when you take a photo except for a white box around the frame. As much I did not like the A9 for other reasons, I'd say this is the best-case scenario, since having a nonstop live feed of your subject is the absolute easiest way to track your subject.

That's the way the 1D X Mark III does it in Live View. The screen shows a continuous video feed with no freeze or blackout. The only way to tell images are being captured is to see the buffer number dropping or the image file number ascending.

 

[Michael Clark]

Except that the target market is a market that has been least affected by the global pandemic. Travel will resume shortly and most of the unemployed are working stiffs that were never going to buy one anyway. The bulk of the market these days comes from enthusiasts with disposable income who are not as impacted by the pandemic's economic fallout. Working photographers are greatly impacted, but they probably constitute a much smaller percentage of the market than we think.

The big question mark is when will governments make it possible for travel enthusiasts to plan trips in confidence that they will actually be allowed to take those trips? Even if they can afford such trips, things such as automatic 14-day quarantines and inflexible airline refund policies will cause a large number of such folks to take a wait-and-see approach to resuming travel. No one wants to be halfway around the world from home when a localized/regional virus flareup strands them there for weeks.

As for working photographers, even if they are only 20% of the market for the R5 (and I think that is a bit low - pretty much everyone I know who uses a 5D Mark IV generates at least some income from using it and most generate a significant portion of their income from photography), that's a considerable amount of revenue Canon won't be seeing for quite a long while to offset the R&D and other overall program costs.