Canon is gearing up to finally release a high megapixel camera with 100+ megapixels [CR3]

[Michael Clark]

I can't find any information about whether the sensor read rate increases in crop mode and hence rolling shutter decreasing. This would show that only the crop lines on the sensor are read vs the full sensor. If the sensor read rate doesn't change from full to crop then the AF system can't be faster - or have I misunderstood?

It's not so much about the readout time as it is about the processing time. If the camera only need read 63% of the sensor's lines for AF, then it can do so at a higher rate per second for each line used than if it is scanning 100% of the sensor's lines. It can cycle through only the middle 63% 160 times in the same amount of time it would take to cycle through the full sensor for 100 times.

 

[Michael Clark]

Of course, every company says that. Not discontinued until there is a demand - but they won't release new lenses or new bodies (or with very minor updates) until there won't be any demand left.

The statement by Canon specifically said it would be incorrect to assume a decision had already been made that there would be no further development of EOS M bodies.

 

[Michael Clark]

One thing I've never really explored much is Canon's diffraction correction that it provides as a post-processing solution, using lens data communicated through the R mount. That always fascinated me, but I've not had much use for it. In this context, it may become more relevant. I wonder how much of a dent something like DLO can make in any introduced diffraction. When first introduced, it required the use of DPP in post. Later, it was included in-camera if you shot JPEG. Wonder if folks have experience with it and can comment.

It's resource intensive and significantly slows down the camera or computer processing it. But the results I've seen, back when it was first introduced in 2012, were rather impressive.

As AI sharpening and AI NR have continued to advance by leaps and bounds since DLO was first introduced, I'm not sure it has the same value today it had back when it was rolled out. The best NR, sharpening, and resize applications today are at least as equally amazing in bringing out "lost" details as DLO was back then.

 

[Bonich]

Not even an f/1.2 will take full advantage of the sensor! What matters is that the overall resolution depends on the resolution of the sensor times the resolution of the lens. So, increasing the resolution of the sensor increases the apparent resolution of any lens.

Really???
The weaker of both resolutions wins - easy to understand.

 

[Fischer]

The 5Ds and 5Ds R had a few features the 5D Mark III did not, though it is arguable if some of them made much of a difference for the intended use cases of the 50 MP bodies.

Flicker reduction and an RGB+IR light meter are the first two that come to mind.

Then barely a year later the 5D Mark IV came along with all of the improvements of the 5Ds over the 5D Mark III, plus a few more.

By the time this 100MP+ camera is available, the R5 Mark II might be barely a year away with somewhere around 50-60MP.

There may have been more than a few folks who bought the 5Ds that didn't really want/need 50MP but did want/need more than the 22MP 5D Mark III who wished they had waited another year for the 30MP 5D Mark IV.

Yes 5DS/R improved on every aspect of the 5DIII - except fps. Better AF was one important improvement but especially the sensor was far better. Expect improvements again in the new 100MPIX model over the R5, and this time maybe with a larger, better sensor and high fps - and who knows if we can get improved stills video capture changing photography in a way the R5 did not.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Really???
The weaker of both resolutions wins - easy to understand.

Evidently not for you.

 

[AlanF]

Really???
The weaker of both resolutions wins - easy to understand.

Learn some basic maths and physics before making such comments. Read this for a start: http://www.normankoren.com/Tutorials/MTF.html Or if you find that heavy going try Roger Ciccala https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2017/07/experiments-for-ultra-high-resolution-camera-sensors/

"So What Did We Learn Today?​

Well, mostly nothing, but there are a couple of things.

First, let me emphasize again that if we had a 150-megapixel camera and shot today’s lenses on it, the images would have more detail than that same lens on your current 36-megapixel camera."

 

[entoman]

Of course, every company says that. Not discontinued until there is a demand - but they won't release new lenses or new bodies (or with very minor updates) until there won't be any demand left.

Just an opinion - I can fully understand that Canon might want to rationalise their product lines by discontinuing the M series in favour of compact RF bodies. Likewise I can see the logic of entrapping novices (who IMO probably comprise the majority of M purchasers) into the RF system.

But I think if M is discontinued then it's rather sad, as they provide an excellent compact system, and one which is capable of further development. I think it all hinges on how the Asian market reacts to the R10 - the M series is still extremely popular there, but if the cameras are perceived by fashion-conscious people as outdated, then we may see them discontinued once existing stocks dry up.

 

[Hector1970]

Yes 5DS/R improved on every aspect of the 5DIII - except fps. Better AF was one important improvement but especially the sensor was far better. Expect improvements again in the new 100MPIX model over the R5, and this time maybe with a larger, better sensor and high fps - and who knows if we can get improved stills video capture changing photography in a way the R5 did not.

I really liked my 5DIII (it unfortunately went for an unexpected swim in the sea). The 5DSR for me always has been a strange camera. Very good in a studio, very good at ISO 100 on a tripod. Very slow as a camera, as in unresponsive after a few shots have been taken waiting for the buffer to clear. I found the 5DIII a great camera, a great all rounder. A no excuse camera, generally it was the users fault if you didn’t get a decent camera. I found the 5DIV an allround improvement on the 5DIII. The 5DSR I always felt it was rushed to get 50MP out and that it was at the time a stretch too far .

 

[David - Sydney]

It's not so much about the readout time as it is about the processing time. If the camera only need read 63% of the sensor's lines for AF, then it can do so at a higher rate per second for each line used than if it is scanning 100% of the sensor's lines. It can cycle through only the middle 63% 160 times in the same amount of time it would take to cycle through the full sensor for 100 times.

The processing time is not as relevant as it is designed for full sensor reading. Rolling shutter is the readout speed and the faster the portion of the sensor read then - in theory - the reduction in rolling shutter.
The ultimate goal/extension to this theory is a global shutter. The sensor information can be stored temporarily waiting for the processor to process it. The development of stacked sensors is to reduce the readout speed and reduce noise by having the amplifiers as close as possible to the sensor

 

[Quarkcharmed]

Yes, it is, exactly my point. The R bodies are barely better DR than my 5dsr in terms of just image quality. I have recently been spoiled by the fuji 33x44 sensor ! But for fast fluid and enjoyable camera operation, I still prefer my 1dx3.

2-stop improvement in the DR is 'barely better'??

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

 

[cayenne]

Let’s hope you’ve got some blemish free models.

Well, there's always post production....I mean, it isn't like anyone doing portraits is selling them to clients straight out of the camera, you know?


And too, the really FUN thing about mirrorless cameras, is that you can adapt pretty much ANY older manual lens to them...and there is some GREAT vintage glass out there that is perfect for portraiture and may soften some images if that's what you wish.

I like to run my GFX100 with adapted Hasselblad V system glass on it at times and it looks great. I sometimes use it with the speed booster to get the whole lens image onto the smaller GFX sensor or sometimes not....

When I get into the RF system, I plan to adapt lenses to it too, whichever camera I get...there's a lot of fun and endless possibilities with mirrorless and lens adaptation out there.

cayenne

 

[usern4cr]

The 5Ds and 5Ds R had a few features the 5D Mark III did not, though it is arguable if some of them made much of a difference for the intended use cases of the 50 MP bodies.

Flicker reduction and an RGB+IR light meter are the first two that come to mind.

Then barely a year later the 5D Mark IV came along with all of the improvements of the 5Ds over the 5D Mark III, plus a few more.

By the time this 100MP+ camera is available, the R5 Mark II might be barely a year away with somewhere around 50-60MP.

There may have been more than a few folks who bought the 5Ds that didn't really want/need 50MP but did want/need more than the 22MP 5D Mark III who wished they had waited another year for the 30MP 5D Mark IV.

In the past, with FSI sensors, as your #pixels get too high you end up with all your sensor being non-pixel sensing support circuitry.
But new BSI has the potential that the full sensor well depth is always there, no matter how tiny the pixels being sensed. So I could see BSI technology allowing much higher resolutions while maintaining a similar IQ, which is a win in potential resolution at the cost of only much higher data storage requirements.

This almost begs the question of: If they introduce the same R5 successor in a 50-60MP version and a 100+MP version at the same price, which would you want? Most would opt for 100+ just assuming it's the best choice. I might opt for the 50-60MP sensor at the moment taking storage costs into account, but would probably wait to see some test results before knowing which was better for my use cases.

But either way, I'm eagerly waiting for the R5 style successor!

 

[Sporgon]

This almost begs the question of: If they introduce the same R5 successor in a 50-60MP version and a 100+MP version at the same price, which would you want? Most would opt for 100+ just assuming it's the best choice.

Most who are active on this site might, but taking the wider and majority usage I’m not so sure. I found it interesting that each year in Lens Rentals “Top Twenty most rented gear of the year” list the “high mp” version of a manufacturer’s model line (ie Sony A7R vs A7 for instance) never makes the list. Not once.

 

[blackcoffee17]

Just an opinion - I can fully understand that Canon might want to rationalise their product lines by discontinuing the M series in favour of compact RF bodies. Likewise I can see the logic of entrapping novices (who IMO probably comprise the majority of M purchasers) into the RF system.

But I think if M is discontinued then it's rather sad, as they provide an excellent compact system, and one which is capable of further development. I think it all hinges on how the Asian market reacts to the R10 - the M series is still extremely popular there, but if the cameras are perceived by fashion-conscious people as outdated, then we may see them discontinued once existing stocks dry up.

I agree and it does not even need that many resources to keep it up to date. For example just get the R10 insides and put it in a slightly smaller M mount body and you have an up to date M camera. They did the same with the 90D/M6II. The insides are identical 90%.

 

[unfocused]

...This almost begs the question of: If they introduce the same R5 successor in a 50-60MP version and a 100+MP version at the same price, which would you want? Most would opt for 100+ just assuming it's the best choice. I might opt for the 50-60MP sensor at the moment taking storage costs into account, but would probably wait to see some test results before knowing which was better for my use cases...

Most who are active on this site might, but taking the wider and majority usage I’m not so sure. I found it interesting that each year in Lens Rentals “Top Twenty most rented gear of the year” list the “high mp” version of a manufacturer’s model line (ie Sony A7R vs A7 for instance) never makes the list. Not once.

I would take the 50-60 mp version, because there is no free lunch.

They won't be the same price. The larger file sizes will require compromises, including less room in the buffer for bursts. Even at CRaw, the files will be larger and eat up more resources. There will be other, subtle differences that make the 100 mp body less appealing.

I've gotten to the point where I really prefer purpose-built bodies. I have the R3 and the R5 and choose which to use based on what I need/want at the time. I'd rather add an R7 to my collection than use a 100mp body if I want more pixels on the subject because I find extreme cropping is seldom satisfactory. You might be able to enlarge the subject, but getting it in focus is much harder.

Just my personal preference.

 

[usern4cr]

I would take the 50-60 mp version, because there is no free lunch.

They won't be the same price. The larger file sizes will require compromises, including less room in the buffer for bursts. Even at CRaw, the files will be larger and eat up more resources. There will be other, subtle differences that make the 100 mp body less appealing.

I've gotten to the point where I really prefer purpose-built bodies. I have the R3 and the R5 and choose which to use based on what I need/want at the time. I'd rather add an R7 to my collection than use a 100mp body if I want more pixels on the subject because I find extreme cropping is seldom satisfactory. You might be able to enlarge the subject, but getting it in focus is much harder.

Just my personal preference.

Yes, the file size getting so darn big is a serious issue to me since I take a lot of photos and the cost of memory in a Mac is high and the choices of internal TB's limited. Sure, you can add external SSD's, but I'd rather not have to lug around anything external than I have to. Also, higher MP sensors will probably take longer to read the sensor and store it internally. And higher MP will come with a higher cost and probably higher heat and shorter battery life.

I'd much rather Canon keep the 45MP sensor (or 60MP) and increase the resolution of the EVF or back LCD (or even the back LCD size if possible), or give it GPS or other new features previously mentioned.

I go to a lot of trouble to take sharp subject photos with big blurred backgrounds, and with a much bigger MP sensor I would be surprised if I see much sharper subject images and of course it won't matter for the blurred backgrounds. But when they come out with one and if the sharpness is noticeably better then I'll be glad they offered it. We'll just have to see when it comes out.

 

[stevelee]

Most who are active on this site might, but taking the wider and majority usage I’m not so sure. I found it interesting that each year in Lens Rentals “Top Twenty most rented gear of the year” list the “high mp” version of a manufacturer’s model line (ie Sony A7R vs A7 for instance) never makes the list. Not once.

My guess is that if you need one of those bodies, you know who you are, and you buy one. I would think a one-off high resolution project would not come along that often.

So far I have rented just a couple TS-E lenses, fun to play with and suitable for a few things I wanted to try out, but otherwise would just sit on the shelf for years at a time. A friend and his wife recently took a river cruise in France. He didn't want to carry his best gear with him, but he still wanted to shoot Raw and have more flexibility than with a phone. He knew I used the G5X II for travel, and he tried to buy one, but they were out of stock everywhere he looked. So he rented one. (He came over here a few days before the trip to familiarize himself with the controls and ask me questions. I offered to loan him mine or my old G7X II, but he said that he had dropped cameras in the water when on fishing trips, and didn't want to risk losing mine on a cruise.) He said the camera and the rental went well for him.

 

[acousticengineer]

It appears I'm waiting for the next R3 with more MP but not 100MP. The R3 was introduced November 27, 2021. Does anyone guess there will be an R3-like introduction (I do much more pictures than videos) with, say, 60 - 80 MP before end of this year? That would be one year from R3. Or does anyone guess that, say, R3II comes every two years (or more?)

 

[neuroanatomist]

It appears I'm waiting for the next R3 with more MP but not 100MP. The R3 was introduced November 27, 2021. Does anyone guess there will be an R3-like introduction (I do much more pictures than videos) with, say, 60 - 80 MP before end of this year? That would be one year from R3. Or does anyone guess that, say, R3II comes every two years (or more?)

Very unlikely. The 1-series has been on a 4-year refresh cycle. It's also possible (perhaps even likely) that the R3 was a one-off, and there will be no R3II.