Canon will release an RF mount ‘vlogging’ camera in 2022 [CR3]

[JohanCruyff]

So the expected "Full Frame Sub 800$ Viewfinder-free R camera" could be an APS-C?

Canon aiming for a $799 full-frame camera? [CR2]

A pretty solid source with a decent track record has told me that Canon is aiming to release a full-frame RF mount camera for under $800 USD in 2022. The Canon

www.canonrumors.com

 

[mccasi]

Imagine... Canon could be the first one who actually makes a mid range vlogging cam.

12MP 4k, IBIS, good codecs, good autofocus, flip screen, tally light, digital audio in via hotshoe

...basically A7S3 but 3 years later and half the price and without the stupid ultra high end EVF.

 

[Bob Howland]

So the expected "Full Frame Sub 800$ Wiewfinder-free R camera" could be an APS-C?

Canon aiming for a $799 full-frame camera? [CR2]

A pretty solid source with a decent track record has told me that Canon is aiming to release a full-frame RF mount camera for under $800 USD in 2022. The Canon

www.canonrumors.com

And if it's going to be APS-C, why not M?

 

[neuroanatomist]

And if it's going to be APS-C, why not M?

Because there are already sub-$800 non full frame M cameras, so we don't need a rumor about one being the holy grail?

 

[Skyscraperfan]

The Z30 is quite underwhelming. It is basically a crippled Z50 or Z fc. They used the same sensor for the third time, but this time they even got rid of the EVF, which makes it quite unusable for stills.

 

[John Wilde]

And both cameras have consistently been among the top 10 best-selling cameras in Japan since their launch, and usually one or both have been among the top three. Canon is smart enough to know that if it ain't broke, you don't fix it. Canon is also smart enough not to let forum members make their product decisions for them. Imagine that...

To Canon, M is "The system that dare not speak its name". In the Canon USA press release "Canon EOS System celebrates 35th anniversary" there wasn't a single word about the existence of M. In Canon's financial documents, M is never mentioned. Nobody, other than Canon, knows what M50 worldwide sales are, and they aren't saying. It's clear that Canon Imaging cares about three things - EOS R, EOS R, and EOS R.

​

 

[John Wilde]

The Z30 is quite underwhelming. It is basically a crippled Z50 or Z fc. They used the same sensor for the third time, but this time they even got rid of the EVF, which makes it quite unusable for stills.

Z30 is Nikon's version of the Sony ZV-E10. But yes, it's pretty much Variation 3 of the Z50.

​

 

[unfocused]

And both cameras have consistently been among the top 10 best-selling cameras in Japan since their launch, and usually one or both have been among the top three. Canon is smart enough to know that if it ain't broke, you don't fix it. Canon is also smart enough not to let forum members make their product decisions for them. Imagine that...

While I generally agree, I'm not sure if Canon does.

I think it may be getting to the point where, just as with the R7, you will have to reconsider your position. (And, yes, the R7 may not be a direct replacement for the 7D, but it is certainly a replacement.)

For video bloggers I'm not sure the smaller size of the M series would have any benefit over this body. Also we haven't yet seen how small Canon can make a crop-sensor R, although the lens mount will be a limiting factor.

I suppose it is possible that Canon could retain the M series as the "tiny, portable" system for travel and the R system for everything else, but siphoning off the video market would certainly cut into M sales and make sustaining the system less viable.

Only Canon knows if size alone is a deciding factor for purchasing interchangeable lens bodies. However, when I look at how the iPhones and iPads have been supersized in recent years, I wonder just how much of a factor small size is.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it," sounds good, but in reality companies break their products all the time.

 

[neuroanatomist]

To Canon, M is "The system that dare not speak its name". In the Canon USA press release "Canon EOS System celebrates 35th anniversary" there wasn't a single word about the existence of M. In Canon's financial documents, M is never mentioned. Nobody, other than Canon, knows what M50 worldwide sales are, and they aren't saying. It's clear that Canon Imaging cares about three things - EOS R, EOS R, and EOS R.

Canon execs stated that the EOS M line accounts for 30% of their camera sales worldwide. In the same interview, they stated that DSLRs comprise 40% of their camera sales, and the EOS R line comprises 20%. They did not say, but from those numbers is it obvious they are talking about unit sales, not revenue.

Of course, when two lines are mature and one is new, the new one gets the bulk of development resources.

 

[mxwphoto]

So basically R10 without EVF and knocked down a couple hundred bucks in a smaller form factor. Unfortunately it probably won't have IBIS at that price point which imo is much more important to vlogging.

Given that a lot of targeted user base already own M cameras or others with similiar capabilities, this camera would not be much of an upgrade. I would much rather see Canon remove EVF but add in IBIS and keep price around the same as R10 as that would provide much more incentive for vloggers to upgrade into the RF ecosystem.

Also Canon should build a mic with a tally light built in for those that want to vlog with R7 or R10.

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

Actually, the Z30 is 74mm high vs 70mm for M6 MarkII (which is the "biggest" EVF-less EOS M to date in that regard).
On specs sheet, The Z30 is overall significantly bigger than the EOS M6 MarkII, though, it's said to be slightly lighter (405g vs 408g), which is good thing of course.

With RF mount, Canon could reasonably shrink their camera's height at a minimum of 72mm, at best (they need to leave room for the hot shoe, at least).
Reading from here and there, replacing the M6 line-up with RF looks possible. But, IMO, they would have to keep EOS-M if they still intend to sell smaller ILCs than M6 MarkII.

 

[Bob Howland]

Actually, the Z30 is 74mm high vs 70mm for M6 MarkII (which is the "biggest" EVF-less EOS M to date in that regard).
On specs sheet, The Z30 is overall significantly bigger than the EOS M6 MarkII, though, it's said to be slightly lighter (405g vs 408g), which is good thing of course.

With RF mount, Canon could reasonably shrink their camera's height at a minimum of 72mm, at best (they need to leave room for the hot shoe, at least).
Reading from here and there, replacing the M6 line-up with RF looks possible. But, IMO, they would have to keep EOS-M if they still intend to sell smaller ILCs than M6 MarkII.

Not being a vlogger, I have to ask the question: Is there a real benefit in vlogging for having the smallest camera (and lenses) possible?

 

[hachu21]

...thanks for this link.

Note the mention of the 200 and M5 series but not the M6 series...sort of makes sense to me--the M6 MkII really is sort of a 'baby' R7 with 2-3 year old technology inside. So my guess has been (and written here) is no more M6 bodies from Canon...but perhaps the smaller Ms will move forward.

Think about it for a minute--the refurbished M200 + 15-45 EF-M lens combination (and a backpack thrown in for good measure)...is $350 at Canon...right now. That's quite the deal, especially when compared to some 'point-and-shoot' Canons that were ubiquitous not all that long ago (pre cellphone).

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It makes no sense for Canon to abandon the tiny APS-C body market to its competitors.

I own the EF-M 18-150 IS lens (in fact, purchased one for a family member, too)...while a fine lens it is somewhat limited in terms of image quality. But when I use an M camera, I'm prepared to make compromises...size-and-weight compromises.

Some measure of the quandary Canon faces is that the kit lens for the R7 has the innards of the EF-M 18-150 with an R mount! That makes no sense...the R7, I think, deserves the best glass the R mount can offer, right!?

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There are two EF-M lenses that really really shine, in terms of these kinds of compromises: the 22mm and the 11-22mm IS lenses.

Both of these lenses work nicely on the 'large' M6 MkII...but they also excel on the smaller Ms.

I look forward to evaluating the RS 15-30 lens when it is mounted on the smallest R body.

You forgot the 32/1.4 wich is the best M lens.

 

[hachu21]

Not being a vlogger, I have to ask the question: Is there a real benefit in vlogging for having the smallest camera (and lenses) possible?

Yes : to put them on a small gimbal and get nicely stabilized footage, while keeping the whole setup light and compact.

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

Not being a vlogger, I have to ask the question: Is there a real benefit in vlogging for having the smallest camera (and lenses) possible?

Having a small camera can be a benefit in many different use cases, to my sense. As long as you can couple the camera with useful accessories/lenses and have the right features for your own needs, I can't see any disadvantage. And even if you got big hands, light weight still can be wished for travel, for instance.

 

[josephandrews222]

The Z30 is quite underwhelming. It is basically a crippled Z50 or Z fc. They used the same sensor for the third time, but this time they even got rid of the EVF, which makes it quite unusable for stills.

"but this time they even got rid of the EVF, which makes it quite unusable for stills"

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As Sly and the Family Stone sang:

"Different strokes for different folks...and so on and so on and scooby dooby dooby."

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IMHO, there are certainly many specific cases where a viewfinder is essential in/to the process of image acquisition.

But there are other cases where a viewfinder of any kind is NOT essential...and there are literally tens of thousands of stills in my library proving that very point.

No snark intended...it is just that sometimes I think this sort of thinking doomed the M from the start.

Change is hard.

Hell change is hard for me! I want new M's!

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EDIT: ******* = do-om-ed (remove the hyphens)

 

[neuroanatomist]

...but this time they even got rid of the EVF, which makes it quite unusable for stills.

But there are other cases where a viewfinder of any kind is NOT essential...and there are literally tens of thousands of stills in my library proving that very point.

No, no, no. A viewfinder is needed to take still images. At least, good ones. I'm sure all of your shots with the M6 are crap. Just like mine.

 

[Skyscraperfan]

How will you hold your camera still, if is not pressed onto your face? Just stabilized by your hands like a smartphone? Then you need at least some kind of gimbal or even a tripod. Otherwise you introduce a shake that could be avoided with a viewfinder. Unlike smartphones the Z30 does not even have IBIS. And if the sun is too bright, it is harder to nail the exposure just with a screen.

 

[neuroanatomist]

How will you hold your camera still, if is not pressed onto your face?

With good technique. It's not hard. The waterfall shot above is a 1.0 s exposure (M18-150 @ 45mm), no tripod. Pretty sharp as you can see at 1:1, albeit with some softening from diffraction at f/18.

 

[lustyd]

Not being a vlogger, I have to ask the question: Is there a real benefit in vlogging for having the smallest camera (and lenses) possible?

Yes. Unlike photographers who are there to take a photo, vloggers are there do do whatever it is they are doing, getting footage is usually secondary so carrying 30kg of camera gear is undesirable since it impedes the ability to get on with doing things. Also, when recording, the camera is often held at arms length pointed back at the person, weight is a big issue here. Because of this technique, it's also useful to have a screen that folds up for framing purposes since it looks natural to glance 3" upwards but not 5" to the side.

It would also be nice if they removed the hotshoe from the top of the camera. Vloggers generally don't need a flash and certainly not on top of the camera. It would be more useful to have some M5 threads to mount things to with accessories such as hot/cold shoes to match. I suspect many M6ii users would accept a slightly larger body if it didn't need a Smallrig cage.