Canon continues its dominant hold on global market share for digital cameras

[HarryFilm]

Agreed. Sony already dropped a larger sensor in one of their own smartphones as a sort of proof of concept and is now selling larger sensors to other camera makeres.

https://www.smartprix.com/bytes/best-sony-imx-989-sensor-phones/

So take the entry level point and shoot cameras like the Sony ZV-1 and Canon G7XIII which both have 1" sensors. Both companies will lose the sale of these cameras as they become obsolete because most people will already have a more capable 1" sensor camera in their pocket that has a much better screen, operating system and the ability to easily edit, share and post the pictures directly from the phone. However Sony wont be losing sales completely as they will be selling 1" sensor to a larger phone market.

And this is the trend that is being missed. MILC's are increasingly becoming a niche product as most people will be able to get the functionality from devices they already have. In addition the market for consuming media content is increasingly becoming digital. Sony and Canon are both doing a terrible job at creating apps/operating systems that allow media to easily be edited and shared. Again this leans toward MILC being an niche product where the content is downloaded onto computers, edited and then shared.

Sony seems less concerned as they seem to be actively working with this trend. Pushing their MILC toward higher end niche products while making the sensors for smartphones to address these issues of how content is being created in the future. Look at their latest announcement of the ILX-LR1. They basically took their 61MP sensor from the $3900 A7RV and dropped it into a small, screenless body that can be used in industrial drones for $3k.

So fans arguing over which company sells more MILC's will seem to be pretty silly in the future when a lot of those units will be sold to industrial and commercial business and not traditional retail consumers.

BRAVO! VERY WELL DONE REPLY !!!

Everyone of your points is both salient AND going to be very true within less than two years! Apple's September 12, 2023 Special Event (This post is written on Sept 7, 2023) will LIKELY showcase software updates to the iPhones plus new pro-level desktop and laptop hardware so it is UNLIKELY that a new phone will be introduced then BUT I will give a wink-wink, nudge-nudge that I THINK that there will be some mention of large sensor/100+ megapixel imaging support within Apple's application software and the OS itself! I also expect 16-bits per channel aka 64-bit RGBA colour support in most if not all Apple's imaging software.

If ANY of those announcements DO MAKE IT into Apple's stage talk, THEN it truly means Apple has got SOMETHING REAAAAALLLY HUUUUUUGE coming down the pipe in terms of high-end huge megapixel smartphones AND upcoming DSLR-like Cinema/Still Photo cameras which will first be targeted towards AR/VR application development BUT will likely compete VERY WELL against upcoming Sony A7-4/5 cameras and Canon R5/R3/R1 cameras.

Somewhere in next week's Opening Speech, I very much think some small mention or displayed graphic will showcase something to do with large megapixel counts and/or upcoming camera hardware! All I have right now are wispy electrical engineering source rumours so nothing truly substantial is available to say more of! That said, where there is smoke, there is usually also some very real and very visible FIRE! And that means upcoming Apple 50+ to 200+ megapixel smartphones and probably DSLR-like camera hardware with 60/120/240 fps 4K/8k Video and built-in 3D-XYZ LIDAR/SONAR scanning!

V

 

[EricN]

So fans arguing over which company sells more MILC's will seem to be pretty silly in the future when a lot of those units will be sold to industrial and commercial business and not traditional retail consumers.

So why are you arguing about this?

 

[CJaurelius]

So why are you arguing about this?

I'm not. I don't care which brand sells more cameras and I think its irrelevant. The tone of the conversation seemed to be LOL at all the haters who said Canon was in trouble, look they are selling more cameras than Sony.

My comment was Sony actually has a higher sales volume on a lower number of cameras which is the direction the market it heading in. Canon and Sony will both be selling less cameras that are more expensive years from now as a consumer product that people are using to take pictures/video for non paid content.

 

[CJaurelius]

The mean unit price of an ILC is trending up, but for 2022 it's ¥103,000 = $700. There are still a lot of relatively low-priced units being sold. It's also worth noting that the decline in DSLR sales appears to have leveled off at about 30%, and MILC unit sales remain stable. I wonder how long Sony can keep increasing their prices? That may not be sustainable.

These relatively low priced units are exactly the ones that will dissapear in the near future. That $700 average price is over triple what is was 10 years ago. The prices of cameras didn't go up 350% its just that they stopped selling $150 cameras. That is why it is sustainable if you want to call a shrinking market that. If you are selling 4 $300 cameras for every 1 $2000 camera then the average price is $640. If you sell only 1 $350 camera and 2 $2100 cameras you are now selling 3 cameras instead of 5 and the average price is now $1516 and the price of the cameras barely went up.

This is where the market it moving to. The sensors havent radically increased nor have the camera bodies. If you look at Sony's latest announcements with the A7CII, A7CR and the ZV-E1 these are all old sensors that they put in cheaper bodies and just added software improvements. They are essentiall old cameras with firmware updates. But they are increasing the prices slightly and therfore increasing their margins.

The camera industry typically uses units sold to gauge market share. Sony may prefer to use revenue, for obvious reasons. What matters most to companies and their shareholders is not the top line, but the bottom line. Canon is transparent about those data for cameras, and they are showing double-digit growth (16% y/y for 2022 and forecasting 15% y/y for 2023).

Good for Canon. I hope they don't take that growth for granted and use it to invest in the future of this hobby that I love and don't become obsolete in the future.

Sony plays a long-running shell game with their cameras, which have been moved from one business unit to another several times, and are currently in the Entertainment, Technology & Services Segment (cameras used to be part of Imaging, but they were dragging down the aggregate numbers for their sensors). That segment as a whole grew by 4%, but ILCs don't figure largely. In fact, in their most recent segment strategy presentation, cameras were not mentioned at all as growth drivers, the focus there is on things like virtual production, software, and life sciences (side note: Sony makes very nice flow cytometers).

These are two totally different comanies. Sony's revenue is over 2.5 times higher than Canon and MILC's are a smaller portion of Sony's portfolio. Again they make camera sensors various applications like smartphones to AI enabled sensors for self driving cars. They aren't trying to compete head to head with Canon in a declining industry. They are trying to leverage the research and development of the industry to grow in markets that are projected to grow in the future.

This isn't a Sony vs Canon thing. The market is headed where it's headed. I'm personally not happy with Sony's strategy as it means higher prices. I would prefer a strategy with lower prices that brings people into the market and extends its life as long as possible. They went from their lowest full frame frame costing $1800 up to $2200. I personally wanted the industry as a whole to put out full frame cameras in the $1000 - $1300 range. Canon is the closes at $1500 with the R8. They problem with them is that buy the time you buy glass you end up higher than Sony and even then you have less selection.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Canon is the closes at $1500 with the R8. They problem with them is that buy the time you buy glass you end up higher than Sony and even then you have less selection.

For Canon, I can buy a trio of FF zooms for that R8 covering 15mm to 400mm and costing $1600 MSRP (and available for ~$1300 in recent months). Can I do that with Sony?

(I keep asking those promoting Sony this question, and no one ever responds. I wonder why…)

 

[EricN]

(I keep asking those promoting Sony this question, and no one ever responds. I wonder why…)

it couldn't be because you can't buy a trio of lenses from 15 to 400mm for E mount at that low price. After all, they have f1.4 lenses, third-party autofocus, and started selling their full frame MILC line first., right? How could they be missing something?

 

[David - Sydney]

I know you do, as well as several others here who are real photographers! But for some, an increase in price actually increases the attraction, and the Leica is cited in some texts as an example of Veblen goods.

Leica are actually advertising a AUD2k discount on a few SL2 + lens combos at the moment. First I have seen such a thing!

 

[David - Sydney]

This isn't a Sony vs Canon thing. The market is headed where it's headed. I'm personally not happy with Sony's strategy as it means higher prices. I would prefer a strategy with lower prices that brings people into the market and extends its life as long as possible. They went from their lowest full frame frame costing $1800 up to $2200. I personally wanted the industry as a whole to put out full frame cameras in the $1000 - $1300 range. Canon is the closes at $1500 with the R8. They problem with them is that buy the time you buy glass you end up higher than Sony and even then you have less selection.

Except that Canon sells the RP @ USD1000
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1459282-REG/canon_eos_rp_mirrorless_digital.html
Sure, it isn't the latest sensor/firmware etc but Sony's low end offerings aren't either.

 

[David - Sydney]

BRAVO! VERY WELL DONE REPLY !!!

Everyone of your points is both salient AND going to be very true within less than two years! Apple's September 12, 2023 Special Event (This post is written on Sept 7, 2023) will LIKELY showcase software updates to the iPhones plus new pro-level desktop and laptop hardware so it is UNLIKELY that a new phone will be introduced then BUT I will give a wink-wink, nudge-nudge that I THINK that there will be some mention of large sensor/100+ megapixel imaging support within Apple's application software and the OS itself! I also expect 16-bits per channel aka 64-bit RGBA colour support in most if not all Apple's imaging software.

If ANY of those announcements DO MAKE IT into Apple's stage talk, THEN it truly means Apple has got SOMETHING REAAAAALLLY HUUUUUUGE coming down the pipe in terms of high-end huge megapixel smartphones AND upcoming DSLR-like Cinema/Still Photo cameras which will first be targeted towards AR/VR application development BUT will likely compete VERY WELL against upcoming Sony A7-4/5 cameras and Canon R5/R3/R1 cameras.

Somewhere in next week's Opening Speech, I very much think some small mention or displayed graphic will showcase something to do with large megapixel counts and/or upcoming camera hardware! All I have right now are wispy electrical engineering source rumours so nothing truly substantial is available to say more of! That said, where there is smoke, there is usually also some very real and very visible FIRE! And that means upcoming Apple 50+ to 200+ megapixel smartphones and probably DSLR-like camera hardware with 60/120/240 fps 4K/8k Video and built-in 3D-XYZ LIDAR/SONAR scanning!

V

I guess that you subscribe to the view that
“What’s the best way to make money as a photographer? And as most veterans in the industry know, the best way to make money in photography is by selling your equipment,”

 

[CJaurelius]

Except that Canon sells the RP @ USD1000
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1459282-REG/canon_eos_rp_mirrorless_digital.html
Sure, it isn't the latest sensor/firmware etc but Sony's low end offerings aren't either.

That's my point, neither company is offerening a "new" camera at this price point. Sure Sony will sell you a new A7II for $998 but its old technology. Again people already have photo/video cameras in their pocket. They know 4k30, 4k60, etc. All they need to do is make a full frame sensor, that does at least 4k30 and is at least 24mp and sell it for $1000. That way you suck in a lot of younger people who honestly have never looked through an EVF in their entire life. So in the future you'll be more likely to up sale these people.

But instead they are going to think why would I buy a camera like the RP that doesn't do 4k60 at $1000 or the R8 that does but cost much more than my phone. Then Canon could continue to make money of their lenses once their in the ecosystem.

 

[AlanF]

Leica are actually advertising a AUD2k discount on a few SL2 + lens combos at the moment. First I have seen such a thing!

Aussies aren't into Veblen goods - they leave that to the Poms.

 

[EricN]

That's my point, neither company is offerening a "new" camera at this price point. Sure Sony will sell you a new A7II for $998 but its old technology. Again people already have photo/video cameras in their pocket. They know 4k30, 4k60, etc. All they need to do is make a full frame sensor, that does at least 4k30 and is at least 24mp and sell it for $1000. That way you suck in a lot of younger people who honestly have never looked through an EVF in their entire life. So in the future you'll be more likely to up sale these people.

But instead they are going to think why would I buy a camera like the RP that doesn't do 4k60 at $1000 or the R8 that does but cost much more than my phone. Then Canon could continue to make money of their lenses once their in the ecosystem.

I think first time camera buyers insisting on 8k, but unwilling to spend over $1000 will settle for aps-c

 

[CJaurelius]

For Canon, I can buy a trio of FF zooms for that R8 covering 15mm to 400mm and costing $1600 MSRP (and available for ~$1300 in recent months). Can I do that with Sony?

(I keep asking those promoting Sony this question, and no one ever responds. I wonder why…)

For most people with Sony full frame cameras the trio of zooms you are refering to are lenses they don't want so its a moot point. Their are no RF mount lenses with f2.8 anywhere remotely near that price.

People want options. One person might want a wider aperature, while another person might want a lower price. Then another person might want lightweight so that it can balance on a gimbal. Then another person might want it to be the same weight and height as all their other lenses so they can swap lenses while their on a gimbal. Canon simply doens't offer this versatility.

Let's take the 24mm focal length. WIth Canon your options are:

Prime
24MM 1.8 - $599 - decent middle of the road and farily wide.
Zoom
15-35mm f2.8 - $2,399 - Expensive wide angle range, great lens, big and heavy, not wide enough as prime. Not ideal for videoor gimal work.
14-35mm f4 - $1,499 - Smaller and lighert but f4 isn't wide enough for most
24-70mm 2.8 - $2,399 - Expensive but great lens, big and heavy, not wide enough for a prime. Not ideal for video.
24-105mm f4 $1,299 - Less expensive but still pricey. Not wide enough. Not ideal for video.
28-70mm f2 - $2,899 - Insane price, not even a 24mm, not ideal for video, but great for a somewhat fast all around lens.

Now lets look at Sony options:

Prime
Tamron 24mm f2.8 - $199 - Inexspenive lens for a beginner, not wide enough for a prime. Small and lightweight. Corners too soft.
Samyang/Rokinon 24mm f2.8 - $219 - Same as Tamron
Sony 24mm F2.8G - $549 - more than the other 2.8's but better quality. Small and lightweight
Viltrox 24mm f1.8 - $379 - Comparable to Canon 24mmf1.8 without stabilization. Dedicated aperature ring.
Samyang 24mm f1.8 - $399 - Same as the Viltox for similar value.
Sigma 24mm f2 - $639 - A bit wider than the f2.8's and better quality than the budget F1.8's.
Sigma 24mm f1.4 - $799 - Fast and great quality. Way better than Canon 24mm f1.8 for only $200 more. This lens on Canon would make their option obsolete. Dedicated aperature ring.
Sony 24mm f1.4GM - $1,299 - Slightly better quality than the Sigma and also smaller and lighter for a lot more money.

Zoom - Honesty too many to list but I start with a few
Sony 24-70GMII f2.8 - $2,399 - Similar to Canon version but shorter and lighter
Sigma 24-70 f2.8 - $999 - 90% of the Sony and Canon version for 40% of the price. Canon would lose 80% of their 24-70mm sales if they had this version.
Samyang/Rokinon 24-70mm f2.8 - $849 - If you really want to save some extra bucks at the expense of quality
Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 - $1,199 similar to Sigma if you Tamron more
Sony 16-35mm f2.8 - $1,999 - Quality but big and expensive
Sony 16 - 35mm f2.8GMII - $2,299 - If you want this zoom range with the best quality while being smaller and lighter
Sigma 14-24mm f2.8 - $1,399 - Gets you wider but not 35mm for a lot less.
Tamron 20-40mm f2.8 - $699 - Budget option in the middle that is also small and lightweight
Sigma 16- 28mm f2.8 $899 - Even further in the middle of the few above it.
Sony 16-35mm f4PZ - $1,199 - Not wideenough for most but extremely small and has power zoom feature for video. Great on a gimbal.
Sony 24-105 f4 - $1,299 - Similar to Canon for same price, but again not wide enough for most.
And plenty more...

And that is the issue, people are using these lenses for such a variety of things and the Sony E mount gives them the option to pay as much or as little for whats good for them.

Here is a clear example. A friend of mine has a Sony full frame and he primarily shoots real estate photos/videos and videos for Youtube. So he wants a wide angle zoom that is somewhat fast. Ideally 14mm for the real estate shots and 24mm for the Youtube videos and at least an f2.8.

On the Canon side that give him either:
15-35mm f2.8 - $2,399 Insanely exspenive but big and heavy and still give up 1mm
16mm f2.8 $299 and 24mm F2.8 $599 - Primes instead of zoom and gives up 2mm on wide side which is a lot in real estate.

On the Sony side he has:
14-24mm f2.8 - $1,399 Also big and heavy like Canon but $1000 cheaper (what he bought)
Multiple different 14mm primes that are as wide as f1.4 and a 24mm prime that a also goes to f1.4
So he can get 14mm at f1.4, 1f.8 or f2.8 depending on budget.
He can get 24mm at f1.4, f1.8 or f2.8 again depending on budget.
He can get 14-24mm at f2.8 for much cheaper than canon which by itself pays for a much better camera
He can get 16-35mm f2.8 for a lot of money if he is willing to give up that 2mm, similar to his only zoom option on Canon.

 

[CJaurelius]

I think first time camera buyers insisting on 8k, but unwilling to spend over $1000 will settle for aps-c

I didn't mention 8k anywhere. 8k really isn't driving the market right now. The big push is 4k video. People need it to be 4k which will allow them to punch in and still have a decent picture. They also need 4k60 and preferably 4k120 for slow motion.

The R8 does 4k60 uncropped for $1500. To me it is pound for pound the best value in full frame for a hybrid camera. The problem goes back to the lenses.

Sure some will settle for aps-c. But once you drop to aps-c you start to lose some of the advantage (bokeh, low light) that make these cameras better than smartphones. For most laypeople the smarthpones are able to use computation photograhy to create a more pleasing image than what they can do with MILC. So the sensor needs to be A LOT better to over come this. And again the smartphone sensors are getting bigger.

 

[Kit.]

For most people with Sony full frame cameras the trio of zooms you are refering to are lenses they don't want so its a moot point.

You haven't tried the RF 100-400 yet, haven't you?

Let's take the 24mm focal length. WIth Canon your options are:

The option I would consider by default is my walkaround lens, the 14-35.

I might also consider the TS/E 24, but focus stacking these days makes it less needed.

If I would really want something large-aperture, there are some EF-mount 24/1.4 lenses to choose from.

but f4 isn't wide enough for most

But f/2.8 is?

 

[neuroanatomist]

For most people with Sony full frame cameras the trio of zooms you are refering to are lenses they don't want so its a moot point. Their are no RF mount lenses with f2.8 anywhere remotely near that price.

Nice answer. Relevant if 'people with Sony full frame cameras' are the main target market Sony is going after. The problem (for Sony) is that based on historical data, the installed base of Canon 5- and 6-series DSLR users is a larger market than people with Sony FF cameras. All of the former, when looking for a FF MILC, will have a set of lenses that all work seamlessly with a Canon adapter on their new Canon FF MILC. Time will tell, but I expect that means that Canon's FF MILC sales will increase in the next couple of years as those people with a 5DIII/IV, 6D/II or an original EOS R move to a new Canon FF MILC. If so, that means that Canon's lead in MILC and ILC units will increase, and likely they'll surpass Sony on value as well ("Improved mix of cameras," as the IR literature puts it).

People want options. One person might want a wider aperature, while another person might want a lower price. Then another person might want lightweight so that it can balance on a gimbal. Then another person might want it to be the same weight and height as all their other lenses so they can swap lenses while their on a gimbal. Canon simply doens't offer this versatility.

It's fine that you don't think so. The question buyers need to answer for themselves is, is there sufficient versatility for me. For many buyers, that's going to be true with the current and growing RF lineup, and if you include adapted EF lenses it's probably true for almost all of them. Many people on this forum eschew adapters, but people on this forum are not representative of the broader market.

Here is a clear example. A friend of mine has a Sony full frame and he primarily shoots real estate photos/videos and videos for Youtube. So he wants a wide angle zoom that is somewhat fast. Ideally 14mm for the real estate shots and 24mm for the Youtube videos and at least an f2.8.

Interesting. The RE photographers I know mostly use a Canon 11-24mm and TS-E 17, either on a DSLR or adapted to a Canon MILC. Those shooting with Nikon or Sony use a 12-xx zoom, but I do know some folks who switched to Canon years ago specifically for the TS-E 17. There was nothing wider than 14mm and no TS-E/PC-E lens on your list. I guess that shows the limited value of anecdotes.

 

[EricN]

I didn't mention 8k anywhere. 8k really isn't driving the market right now. The big push is 4k video. People need it to be 4k which will allow them to punch in and still have a decent picture. They also need 4k60 and preferably 4k120 for slow motion.

The R8 does 4k60 uncropped for $1500. To me it is pound for pound the best value in full frame for a hybrid camera. The problem goes back to the lenses.

Sure some will settle for aps-c. But once you drop to aps-c you start to lose some of the advantage (bokeh, low light) that make these cameras better than smartphones. For most laypeople the smarthpones are able to use computation photograhy to create a more pleasing image than what they can do with MILC. So the sensor needs to be A LOT better to over come this. And again the smartphone sensors are getting bigger.

Sorry, I misstyped. You know, I don't think there are any aps-c cameras shooting 8k except one from Fuji...

I really don't think someone buying their first camera is insisting on everything like you're talking about for under $1000 - chances are, they don't don't even know about aperture. My phone can't even change it.

 

[EricN]

For most people with Sony full frame cameras the trio of zooms you are refering to are lenses they don't want so its a moot point. Their are no RF mount lenses with f2.8 anywhere remotely near that price.

People want options. One person might want a wider aperature, while another person might want a lower price. Then another person might want lightweight so that it can balance on a gimbal. Then another person might want it to be the same weight and height as all their other lenses so they can swap lenses while their on a gimbal. Canon simply doens't offer this versatility.

Let's take the 24mm focal length. WIth Canon your options are:

Prime
24MM 1.8 - $599 - decent middle of the road and farily wide.
Zoom
15-35mm f2.8 - $2,399 - Expensive wide angle range, great lens, big and heavy, not wide enough as prime. Not ideal for videoor gimal work.
14-35mm f4 - $1,499 - Smaller and lighert but f4 isn't wide enough for most
24-70mm 2.8 - $2,399 - Expensive but great lens, big and heavy, not wide enough for a prime. Not ideal for video.
24-105mm f4 $1,299 - Less expensive but still pricey. Not wide enough. Not ideal for video.
28-70mm f2 - $2,899 - Insane price, not even a 24mm, not ideal for video, but great for a somewhat fast all around lens.

Now lets look at Sony options:

Prime
Tamron 24mm f2.8 - $199 - Inexspenive lens for a beginner, not wide enough for a prime. Small and lightweight. Corners too soft.
Samyang/Rokinon 24mm f2.8 - $219 - Same as Tamron
Sony 24mm F2.8G - $549 - more than the other 2.8's but better quality. Small and lightweight
Viltrox 24mm f1.8 - $379 - Comparable to Canon 24mmf1.8 without stabilization. Dedicated aperature ring.
Samyang 24mm f1.8 - $399 - Same as the Viltox for similar value.
Sigma 24mm f2 - $639 - A bit wider than the f2.8's and better quality than the budget F1.8's.
Sigma 24mm f1.4 - $799 - Fast and great quality. Way better than Canon 24mm f1.8 for only $200 more. This lens on Canon would make their option obsolete. Dedicated aperature ring.
Sony 24mm f1.4GM - $1,299 - Slightly better quality than the Sigma and also smaller and lighter for a lot more money.

Zoom - Honesty too many to list but I start with a few
Sony 24-70GMII f2.8 - $2,399 - Similar to Canon version but shorter and lighter
Sigma 24-70 f2.8 - $999 - 90% of the Sony and Canon version for 40% of the price. Canon would lose 80% of their 24-70mm sales if they had this version.
Samyang/Rokinon 24-70mm f2.8 - $849 - If you really want to save some extra bucks at the expense of quality
Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 - $1,199 similar to Sigma if you Tamron more
Sony 16-35mm f2.8 - $1,999 - Quality but big and expensive
Sony 16 - 35mm f2.8GMII - $2,299 - If you want this zoom range with the best quality while being smaller and lighter
Sigma 14-24mm f2.8 - $1,399 - Gets you wider but not 35mm for a lot less.
Tamron 20-40mm f2.8 - $699 - Budget option in the middle that is also small and lightweight
Sigma 16- 28mm f2.8 $899 - Even further in the middle of the few above it.
Sony 16-35mm f4PZ - $1,199 - Not wideenough for most but extremely small and has power zoom feature for video. Great on a gimbal.
Sony 24-105 f4 - $1,299 - Similar to Canon for same price, but again not wide enough for most.
And plenty more...

And that is the issue, people are using these lenses for such a variety of things and the Sony E mount gives them the option to pay as much or as little for whats good for them.

Here is a clear example. A friend of mine has a Sony full frame and he primarily shoots real estate photos/videos and videos for Youtube. So he wants a wide angle zoom that is somewhat fast. Ideally 14mm for the real estate shots and 24mm for the Youtube videos and at least an f2.8.

On the Canon side that give him either:
15-35mm f2.8 - $2,399 Insanely exspenive but big and heavy and still give up 1mm
16mm f2.8 $299 and 24mm F2.8 $599 - Primes instead of zoom and gives up 2mm on wide side which is a lot in real estate.

On the Sony side he has:
14-24mm f2.8 - $1,399 Also big and heavy like Canon but $1000 cheaper (what he bought)
Multiple different 14mm primes that are as wide as f1.4 and a 24mm prime that a also goes to f1.4
So he can get 14mm at f1.4, 1f.8 or f2.8 depending on budget.
He can get 24mm at f1.4, f1.8 or f2.8 again depending on budget.
He can get 14-24mm at f2.8 for much cheaper than canon which by itself pays for a much better camera
He can get 16-35mm f2.8 for a lot of money if he is willing to give up that 2mm, similar to his only zoom option on Canon.

You forgot about all the EF and manual RF options...

 

[CJaurelius]

You forgot about all the EF and manual RF options...

People, especiall younger people coming in buying "new" cameras don't want to put an "old" lens on it with an adapter. Here is a link to a Youtuber who shoots on Canon. He covers the news on all the major brands but personally shoots on Canon and therefore most of his videos are about Canon. So it's like he's biased agaisnt Canon as its what he prefers. He ran a poll on his channel:

"While I could buy Sigma and Tamron EF glass and adapt it to my Canon R system camera using Canons EF to RF adapter, I'm not willing to do this because:

I don't trust the RF to RF adapter to be 100 percent compatible - 10%
I don't want to buy into a closed system. I want Sigma & Tamron - 18%
I didn't buy a new camera to use old EF Lenses - 55%
Few new options as Canon stopped producing most EF lenses 5%
Other - 12%

Listen to his analysis. We can argue over the quality of the older lenses and wheter they work well on new cameras with the adapter or not. Buy perception is reality. People want new. Expecially in a world of social media where the look of your gear can be just as important as the actual quality.

 

[CJaurelius]

I really don't think someone buying their first camera is insisting on everything like you're talking about for under $1000 - chances are, they don't don't even know about aperture. My phone can't even change it.

I think you have to look at the world today and say WHY are people buying their first camera. Remember this is a world where most people already have a camera that does computation photography and can simulate the bokeh of an f1.4 lens already in their pocket. The first time buyer isn't looking for their first camera, they're looking for their first camera that isn't a smartphone. So they are looking to do something their smartphone cant.

Look at polls and in todays world most kids are saying they want to be a Youtuber when they grow up. It consistently ranks number one. One poll found 75%!??! of kids 6 to 17 want to do this. It's insane.

The camera manufactures know that video is what is driving growth. The reality is that MILC's are essencially becoming video cameras that just happen to take pictures. Sony is removing the EVF from many of there cameras and focusing on making the bodies more convienent for shooting video. Canon has their cinema line which has bled all the way down to the R5C and as mentioned the R8 does 4k60 uncropped.

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/1...stry-according-to-the-people-who-make-cameras

"If there's a single theme virtually every leader in the industry can agree on, it's that video is a significant growth driver for the market. Video content is everywhere, and the expectation is that video – whether used by TikTok creators or international media brands – is the best hope of driving the market."

Camera companies see video use growing across all categories of users, but there's one segment they're all laser-focused on: creators. I couldn't get through five minutes of conversation without hearing the word 'creator.'

Sony isn't alone. A significant portion of Nikon's booth at CP+ was aimed at creators: it was a colorful, hip area with staff in sweatshirts proclaiming 'Nikon Creators,' and it was generally packed. Other companies have similar messaging.

So you're a "creator" and you want to make your instagram look better because you are an "influencer". Or you want to grow a Youtube chanel. Heck there are 50 year old housewives making a living by having a Youtbe channel showing their recipies.

These people don't just walk into a camera store like the days of past an look for a camera. They are already on social meadia. They go to Youtube and they look up which cameras are good to start their chanel with. Below is a link to a similar type of video by a channel that has 2.64 million subscribers.

This is where the market is headed and what's driving it. Many of these people aren't going to go into a lifelong love of photography. They are using it as a tool for their dreams of working remotely. The companies know this. Take Sony, they are essentially going to all the top Youtubers and giving the exclusive hands on looks with their camera. So then when they make a new announcement, minutes later all the Youtubers release the videos of the camera that they've had for a couple off weeks prior. The whole process is designed to sell people of specific cameras and features. And while someone who has had a DSLR for 10 years and finally switched over to an MILC might see it differently, this is where the market is going.

"You may think this is very different from the traditional camera market, and you're right – this group of consumers cares about different things than you do. For example, one executive I spoke with told me that this market isn't very worried about Raw files, and many don't know what they are."