A bit more about the Canon EOS-1D X Mark III [CR2]

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
If they are supposed to be shooting this thing at the Tokyo Olympics isn't it waaaaaay late for a development announcement? Kind of time for a release announcement isn't it?
The 1D X was officially announced on 18 October, 2011 and officially began shipping 20 June, 2012. Units bound for the 2012 Summer games were shipped ahead of the official June release date, which was moved back from an initially announced April release date due to supply chain issues.

The 1D X Mark II was officially announced February 1, 2016 and began shipping in April, 2016.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
While I love to save money, and I'm sure 3rd party batteries can deliver similar performance to genuine Canon batteries, my biggest concern with using 3rd party batteries - at least in cameras still under warranty, is damaging the camera and voiding the warranty. I'm sure the chances of something like that happening are remote; nevertheless, is it worth taking that risk on your new $3K-6K camera in order to save $30 or $40?
My first DSLR was a Rebel XTi so I did not have $3K-6K invested at that time. I did learn that the cheapest third party NB-2LH batteries were junk but the NB-2LH batteries from reputable makers like Sterling Tek and Maximal Power were just as good and sometimes better than the originals supplied with the camera. That held true with the BP-511 batteries my 50D used and has held true with the LP-E6/LP-E6N batteries my 7D, 5D Mark II, 5D Mark III, 7D Mark II, and 5D Mark IV use.

The only LP-E6 battery I've had completely die was an original Canon LP-E6 that was less than three years old at the time. I've got third party LP -E6 batteries that are 7-8 years old and still work, though they do not hold as much charge as when they were new. But then again, my Canon LP-E6 batteries that are the same age don't last as long as they used to, either.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
I have to say, I kind of thought the 1DX2's release as a little disappointing in terms of how much progress had been made in the 4 years since the 1DX came out. I owned both, and I liked the II better, of course, but I waited a few years to upgrade, once the prices had almost halved on a used unit.

Back when the II came out, I had an expectation - long since disabused - that the lack of relative progress would mean a sooner upgrade to the III, and when it came, it would have disproportionately improved features. Lots of us here on this forum thought that.

I hold out hope that the III will indeed be remarkable, but I can't find one of us here who actually expects that anymore. I think our expectations are that it'll be akin to the 6D to 6D2 upgrade. Throw some megapixels on there; maybe a few new whistles. The years are no longer correlating to the progress; one would hope because behind the scenes there is much development on the R system.

The thing that continues to give us hope is that they must have something quite bodacious on the way, otherwise, why bet the company on a bunch of never-done-before R lenses without a pro body equal to them. But, the thing is, we know that's not going to be the 1DX3. The 1DX3 is most likely going to be sort of like the delta between the Sony A9 and the A92 that's being released in a couple weeks. It's just some frills for the Olympics, and likely indicates the body in development that they'd hoped to be able to announce in Q3 2019 is just not far enough along to release.

Canon spent a bajillion dollars to be an honest-to-goodness official sponsor of the Olympics ($40-200 million), and there's a product manager somewhere in Integrated Design Department 232 who had to tell the bosses that the be-all mirrorless camera they were hoping to launch to the world when everyone came to Japan won't be ready.

Meanwhile, down the hall, the guy who did something so utterly terrible that he was reassigned to the B team tinkering with the 1D body just in case the company needed a plan B is suddenly asked what he's been doing for the past 18 months. We're about to find out the answer to that question. I think the majority of us are expecting there was a lot of solitaire and resume burnishing and not a whole lot of let's-fit-eye-AF-in-this-thing-ing.
You are imposing your view of American corporate culture on a Japanese company. You've obviously never done business with Japanese companies.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
Thinking a bit more about this, I find it odd that Canon would create a new battery for the 1DXIII when the LP-E19 was released with the 1DXII. I wonder if that new battery feature is something really interesting or if the 1DXIII is going to be notably more power hungry than its predecessor...

I guess Canon have released a number of new batteries which have backwards compatibility in the past as minor upgrades (i.e. LP-E6 vs LP-E6N), but it seems like Canon tries to get as many years and models out of a battery as possible. I mean, the LP-E6 went into the 5D II in 2008, and only got a refresh to the N variant in 2016 with the 5DIV 8 years later. It just seems unusual to refresh a battery in one model, then refresh it again in the next model without a good reason to do so. Maybe the 1DXIII is going to have a pretty good reason for an early refresh of the battery...
The LP-E6N was introduced with the EOS 7D Mark II in 2014.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
A new battery does not make it incompatible, as in the LP-E6N vs. LP-E6.
More like as in the LP-E4N (1D X) and LP-E19 (1D X Mark II) that are backwards/forwards compatible. The older LP-E4n just has a slightly lower capacity rating.
 

Normalnorm

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 25, 2012
525
132
You're buying the wrong third party batteries. Some of them are junk. Others are just as good, if not better than, the genuine Canon batteries. Try STK (Sterling Tek), they last more charge/recharge cycles than my Canon originals do.
Nope, not going to fall for that "these are actually good" line. The manufacture of Li-ion batteries may be somewhat more common today but the reliable sources are OEM because they demand it. Independent packagers like Watson and Sterling Tek cannot and thus one will get burned sooner or later.
 
Oct 24, 2019
5
0
Doesn't look an impressive step forward by any stretch. More like - "oh, we have to release a new 1DX in 2020". It's a very good camera, of course, but there seems to be very little innovation over the past 4 years - compared to what happens elsewhere in technology, not the least in the mirrorless department. And that's for a product with a pricing that could buy you ~7 iPhone 11's (256 GB).

  • Modest bump in FPS from 14 to 16 mechanically. Who regularly shoots 20 fps in live view?
  • No improvements to silent shutter seemingly. The 5D Mark III from 2012 is still the best. Of course, there are mechanical reasons for this, but it would be exciting to see some novelty innovation in important aspects like this where the DSLR's are lagging behind terribly.
  • A new wildly expensive WFT unit (WFT-E9) - despite stating that WiFi is built into the camera? I can get WiFi in a tiny 100 USD phone. I should be able to send images to my tablet/phone/laptop instantly without needing to purchase a clumsy 400 USD device. How about mobile network/LTE support as a feature? Allowing it to be turned on/off to save battery of course. Connectivity features still seem to be 5-10 years outdated.
  • No innovations such as a switchable electronic/optical viewfinder to make use of the live view improvements.
  • Still way too poor focus coverage optically. Improvements mainly gone into live view.
  • Eye-AF? Intelligent subject tracking improvements?
  • No IBIS - okay, that's a lesser deal.
  • High ISO noise improvements? Not expecting much in that regard based on the press release, but that's important as well.
  • Has the new AF-On quick-select focus feature been properly tested? Not sure it's a big UX improvement to combine AF-On with focus point selection. Theoretically it should be an advantage, but it's highly critical that the button is well-functioning, so the main function - AF tracking - isn't compromised.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
Doesn't look an impressive step forward by any stretch. More like - "oh, we have to release a new 1DX in 2020". It's a very good camera, of course, but there seems to be very little innovation over the past 4 years - compared to what happens elsewhere in technology, not the least in the mirrorless department. And that's for a product with a pricing that could buy you ~7 iPhone 11's (256 GB).

  • Modest bump in FPS from 14 to 16 mechanically. Who regularly shoots 20 fps in live view?
  • No improvements to silent shutter seemingly. The 5D Mark III from 2012 is still the best. Of course, there are mechanical reasons for this, but it would be exciting to see some novelty innovation in important aspects like this where the DSLR's are lagging behind terribly.
  • A new wildly expensive WFT unit (WFT-E9) - despite stating that WiFi is built into the camera? I can get WiFi in a tiny 100 USD phone. I should be able to send images to my tablet/phone/laptop instantly without needing to purchase a clumsy 400 USD device. How about mobile network/LTE support as a feature? Allowing it to be turned on/off to save battery of course. Connectivity features still seem to be 5-10 years outdated.
  • No innovations such as a switchable electronic/optical viewfinder to make use of the live view improvements.
  • Still way too poor focus coverage optically. Improvements mainly gone into live view.
  • Eye-AF? Intelligent subject tracking improvements?
  • No IBIS - okay, that's a lesser deal.
  • High ISO noise improvements? Not expecting much in that regard based on the press release, but that's important as well.
  • Has the new AF-On quick-select focus feature been properly tested? Not sure it's a big UX improvement to combine AF-On with focus point selection. Theoretically it should be an advantage, but it's highly critical that the button is well-functioning, so the main function - AF tracking - isn't compromised.

"Who regularly shoots 20 fps in live view?"

Someone at the Olympics with a remotely controlled tripod mounted camera pointed at the gymnastics vault horse or the finish line at the sprint races or at the World Series pointed at the batter's box, or...

"No improvements to silent shutter seemingly."

Do you have sound recordings of the shutter operation of the new 1D Mark III? How do you know this?

"A new wildly expensive WFT unit (WFT-E9)"

The external unit is only for extended longer range, if needed. The internal radio is fine for short distances, such as transmitting to a device on the photog's body. Did you even bother to read the entire press release before launching into your diatribe?

"Eye-AF? Intelligent subject tracking improvements?"

Have you not seen the substantial improvements in those areas with the updated firmware for the EOS R? Why wouldn't Canon also include that in the 1D X mark III?

"Has the new AF-On quick-select focus feature been properly tested? Not sure it's a big UX improvement to combine AF-On with focus point selection. Theoretically it should be an advantage, but it's highly critical that the button is well-functioning, so the main function - AF tracking - isn't compromised."

Again, what information do you have in this regard? Are you one of the pre-production testers of this camera?
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
317
236
Hamburg, Germany
Doesn't look an impressive step forward by any stretch. More like - "oh, we have to release a new 1DX in 2020".
Did you read the development announcement?

No improvements to silent shutter seemingly. The 5D Mark III from 2012 is still the best.
It will do 20 FPS electronically shutter, so completely silent at insane speed.

Still way too poor focus coverage optically. Improvements mainly gone into live view.

Eye-AF? Intelligent subject tracking improvements?
They have made a massive upgrade to the iTR sensor, going from less than half a Megapixel to over 10. I wouldn't make any negative statements about AF yet, especially since the hardware got such a boost and Canon claim it will be improved significantly. Eye AF should be a piece of cake since the 90D already handles face detection in the viewfinder.

High ISO noise improvements? Not expecting much in that regard based on the press release, but that's important as well.
There's just not much space left for improvement.

Things like IBIS or hybrid viewfinder are likely not well suited for being introduced in a 1D. Seeing that you are already sceptical about the AF button change, image the issues if such features are not 100% robust in their first generation.
 
Oct 24, 2019
5
0
"Who regularly shoots 20 fps in live view?"

Someone at the Olympics with a remotely controlled tripod mounted camera pointed at the gymnastics vault horse or the finish line at the sprint races or at the World Series pointed at the batter's box, or...
I doubt this modest change would cause people to start using the more battery-draining live view mode for remotes which they sometimes can't access for hours. I have never used live view for a remote - and can't recall seeing anyone else doing that - either in person or in a tv broadcast. The light from the screens might also not be popular with tv broadcasters if you have 10 of them close to a long jump sandpit for instance. Unless you can turn off the screen while still in live view technically speaking. But not sure if this is doable.

"No improvements to silent shutter seemingly."
Do you have sound recordings of the shutter operation of the new 1D Mark III? How do you know this?
I don't know that, but seeing there is no mention of what could be potentially be a groundbreaking new feature for many sports shooters, I assume it sounds pretty much like the predecessors. Which is not surprising, of course. I'm just listing things that would be strong selling points. Esp. for shooters considering a switch to mirrorless.

The external unit is only for extended longer range, if needed. The internal radio is fine for short distances, such as transmitting to a device on the photog's body. Did you even bother to read the entire press release before launching into your diatribe?
I didn't read that from the press release. Are you sure you can transfer files from the built-in WiFi unit - and does it support both ad hoc (direct connection to another device) and infrastructure (connection to an Access Point)? I was excited to read this part, but they immediately go on to mention a new WFT device in relation to file transfers. It just doesn't seem very innovative for 2020 to still have to rely on a clunky 500-600 USD appendage.

"Eye-AF? Intelligent subject tracking improvements?"

Have you not seen the substantial improvements in those areas with the updated firmware for the EOS R? Why wouldn't Canon also include that in the 1D X mark III?
I guess they might, but no real mention of this in the press release. AF improvements seemed mostly to be in live view mode.

"Has the new AF-On quick-select focus feature been properly tested? Not sure it's a big UX improvement to combine AF-On with focus point selection. Theoretically it should be an advantage, but it's highly critical that the button is well-functioning, so the main function - AF tracking - isn't compromised."

Again, what information do you have in this regard? Are you one of the pre-production testers of this camera?
No, and it is indeed an interesting new addition/potential improvement if it can be pulled off successfully. So I hope they know what they are doing as this is an essential working function.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
317
236
Hamburg, Germany
I don't know that, but seeing there is no mention of what could be potentially be a groundbreaking new feature for many sports shooters, I assume it sounds pretty much like the predecessors.
It is just a development announcement though, and they do mention the electronic shutter. So they have stated already that there is an actually silent shooting mode. Going into details for the sound of regular shooting seems like something too granular at this point for a pure development announcement.

I guess they might, but no real mention of this in the press release. AF improvements seemed mostly to be in live view mode.
From the announcement: "The camera’s new autofocus algorithm will improve stability and tracking when using both the Optical Viewfinder and in Live View shooting mode"

I get the feeling that there is a lot of technological advances going on at Canon, seeing how they managed to polish so many things that Sony fans could nitpick previously. No more banding, really high throughput speed, uncropped video, more battery life thanks significantly higher efficiency, quick face and eye AF on all new models, and so on. When the next high end camera hits, the next iteration of all these small steps should result in a big overall upgrade.
 
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Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,347
740
I doubt this modest change would cause people to start using the more battery-draining live view mode for remotes which they sometimes can't access for hours. I have never used live view for a remote - and can't recall seeing anyone else doing that - either in person or in a tv broadcast. The light from the screens might also not be popular with tv broadcasters if you have 10 of them close to a long jump sandpit for instance. Unless you can turn off the screen while still in live view technically speaking.
You can have the camera connected to the mains and the live view streamed over Gigabit Ethernet to basically whatever you want. Just bear in mind that if you are on the other side of the planet from your camera, due to network delays you will need to start your 20fps burst a little earlier than normal.
 
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Oct 24, 2019
5
0
It will do 20 FPS electronically shutter, so completely silent at insane speed.
That is an improvement for sure. But you are still taking those shots looking at the rear LCD instead of through the optical viewfinder, which is not very practical in a lot of situations - for accuracy, handling and simply viewing the screen outside in bright daylight. That's where a hybrid viewfinder would have been a very interesting feature. But it could be argued such a feature would be unintuitive of course. Why not just make the switch to mirrorless in that case.

They have made a massive upgrade to the iTR sensor, going from less than half a Megapixel to over 10. I wouldn't make any negative statements about AF yet, especially since the hardware got such a boost and Canon claim it will be improved significantly. Eye AF should be a piece of cake since the 90D already handles face detection in the viewfinder.
I will try and be optimistic about the AF improvements in terms of tracking. But I was hoping for some significant change in optical AF points coverage. One of the main DSLR limitations for me in that regard is the lack of wider coverage of AF points for composition.
 
Oct 24, 2019
5
0
It is just a development announcement though, and they do mention the electronic shutter. So they have stated already that there is an actually silent shooting mode. Going into details for the sound of regular shooting seems like something too granular at this point for a pure development announcement.
It would still be groundbreaking if they had made significant improvements. This is already a critical issue for pros, and increasingly so. There was this recent story of press photographers with DSLR's getting kicked out of a political event, while the Sony A9 guy could stay...

Come to think of it, I doubt they would invest many resources pursuing this from a practical point of view, as the electronic shutter will always be superior to any mechanical tweak of the current shutter sound.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,347
740
It would still be groundbreaking if they had made significant improvements. This is already a critical issue for pros, and increasingly so. There was this recent story of press photographers with DSLR's getting kicked out of a political event, while the Sony A9 guy could stay...
Was the story or the event sponsored by Sony, by the way?

Come to think of it, I doubt they would invest many resources pursuing this from a practical point of view, as the electronic shutter will always be superior to any mechanical tweak of the current shutter sound.
"The grapes are sour"?

I wonder... what caused you to register on this forum just to spread FUD about this particular camera?