A bit more about the Canon EOS-1D X Mark III [CR2]

Oct 24, 2019
5
0
Was the story or the event sponsored by Sony, by the way?
It was a PetaPixel article quoting the Washington Post (paywalled article). The event was the recent NBC-sponsored Democratic debate.

Silent Sony a9 a ‘Great Advantage’ for Photographer at Democratic Debate
"The grapes are sour"?

I wonder... what caused you to register on this forum just to spread FUD about this particular camera?
I consciously try to refrain from injecting any kind of personal attacks or innuendo in my posts as it derails from the subject. We all have biases, preferences and interests, and it's impossible to know what motivates someone to participate here or in any other online platform.

If it matters - which I don't think it does - I'm a CPS Platinum member who doesn't own a single Sony or Nikon product. This particular camera is the pro DSLR flagship, announced at a time when mirrorless cameras are making substantial improvements.

If I misread, misunderstood or misrepresented the press release in expressing my concerns, you are of course fully entitled to correct me on that basis. Obviously, we don't have a full spec sheet yet, so there will be some degree of speculation before an actual production camera is out.
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,150
385
It is just a development announcement though, and they do mention the electronic shutter. So they have stated already that there is an actually silent shooting mode. Going into details for the sound of regular shooting seems like something too granular at this point for a pure development announcement.
The electronic shutter may be silent, but what about the mirror?
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,347
740
It was a PetaPixel article quoting the Washington Post (paywalled article). The event was the recent NBC-sponsored Democratic debate.

Silent Sony a9 a ‘Great Advantage’ for Photographer at Democratic Debate
That "opinion" piece in the Washington Post is not paywalled (at least to me) and tells a different story. While this article (and the preceding, linked blog post of the same author) about Doug Mills shooting Sony does look like a Sony ad, its message is not about "press photographers with DSLR's getting kicked out of a political event".

Neither the Petapixel itself presents the story in your terms.

I consciously try to refrain from injecting any kind of personal attacks or innuendo in my posts as it derails from the subject. We all have biases, preferences and interests, and it's impossible to know what motivates someone to participate here or in any other online platform.
Knowing the motivation simplifies communication. Too much time is being spent on discussing irrelevant matters because people have XY problems.

If it matters - which I don't think it does
You are right, it doesn't.

If I misread, misunderstood or misrepresented the press release in expressing my concerns, you are of course fully entitled to correct me on that basis. Obviously, we don't have a full spec sheet yet, so there will be some degree of speculation before an actual production camera is out.
I could theoretically spend hours on correcting all your misrepresentations, but I don't have time for it, so the key question: why does it matter to you? What are you trying to achieve and what would I need to help you with?
 
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Cochese

EOS 80D
Oct 22, 2014
113
49
Well, some people do have savings accounts.
That's the same as a checking account when it comes to affording something, no? It's money you have, not credit you can use. I just "purchased" a $13,000 embroidery machine, and didn't break my bank. Because I used Credit (with 60months, no interest), but it makes me money, so affording the extras that are required of it really isn't a big deal. Extra hoops can cost up to $700, depending. They aren't necessary, but if it's going to pay for itself, nbd.
Same with batteries, compared to the $6k of the camera, is an extra $100 really a deal breaker? If you're a working pro, you'll probably pay that off pretty quick.
 

Cochese

EOS 80D
Oct 22, 2014
113
49
You're buying the wrong third party batteries. Some of them are junk. Others are just as good, if not better than, the genuine Canon batteries. Try STK (Sterling Tek), they last more charge/recharge cycles than my Canon originals do.
I use a mix of third party and first in my 5DMIV and my t3i. For the t3i, the Wasabi Power brand of batteries are absolutely solid performers. They last as long as official on a charge, no problem. For about two years, anyway. They're definitely fading faster, but for $12 for two of them, I can't really complain. I usually only stock up on third parties when I know I'm going to be gone for a while and want to have a cache of extras on hand.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,347
740
That's the same as a checking account when it comes to affording something, no? It's money you have, not credit you can use.
It's money you might have wanted to use for something else. Like a downpayment for your new home. Or paid education for your children. Or, if you are really cheap, even a photo tour to Serengeti.

I just "purchased" a $13,000 embroidery machine, and didn't break my bank. Because I used Credit (with 60months, no interest), but it makes me money, so affording the extras that are required of it really isn't a big deal. Extra hoops can cost up to $700, depending. They aren't necessary, but if it's going to pay for itself, nbd.
Same with batteries, compared to the $6k of the camera, is an extra $100 really a deal breaker? If you're a working pro, you'll probably pay that off pretty quick.
How much do you think an average pro photographer earns?
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,901
1,033
119
How much do you think an average pro photographer earns?
In the USA if you aren't clearing, not grossing, $50,000 a year within 3-5 years of startup you should be looking at getting a real job and leaving the photography as a hobby or part time gig.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
I doubt this modest change would cause people to start using the more battery-draining live view mode for remotes which they sometimes can't access for hours. I have never used live view for a remote - and can't recall seeing anyone else doing that - either in person or in a tv broadcast. The light from the screens might also not be popular with tv broadcasters if you have 10 of them close to a long jump sandpit for instance. Unless you can turn off the screen while still in live view technically speaking. But not sure if this is doable.
It's easily doable. Anyone with the resources to have a remote camera inside the competition areas of a world class gymnastics meet also has access to electrical power at that location. AC couplers (instead of batteries) and outputting the video over LAN or HDMI cable allows the screen to be left off and the camera powered indefinitely.


I don't know that, but seeing there is no mention of what could be potentially be a groundbreaking new feature for many sports shooters, I assume it sounds pretty much like the predecessors. Which is not surprising, of course. I'm just listing things that would be strong selling points. Esp. for shooters considering a switch to mirrorless.
The press release does mention electronic shutter, which even a sceptic like yourself should surely assume is silent? How long do you want the press release to be in order to explicitly mention every single feature of a camera that will have a User's Manual that is 500-600 pages or more?


I didn't read that from the press release. Are you sure you can transfer files from the built-in WiFi unit - and does it support both ad hoc (direct connection to another device) and infrastructure (connection to an Access Point)? I was excited to read this part, but they immediately go on to mention a new WFT device in relation to file transfers. It just doesn't seem very innovative for 2020 to still have to rely on a clunky 500-600 USD appendage.

It may not have been in the actual press release. The video posted about 2 minutes after midnight EDT by B&H on the date of the announcement may have been where I first saw it. The external WiFi unit is for when longer radio range is needed. The internal WiFi radio is capable of all the same functions as the external unit. The difference is that the non-external antenna is more limited in range due to the camera's metal alloy body.

I guess they might, but no real mention of this in the press release. AF improvements seemed mostly to be in live view mode.
Again, how long do you want a press release announcement telling of a camera under development that is still a few months away from release to be?


No, and it is indeed an interesting new addition/potential improvement if it can be pulled off successfully. So I hope they know what they are doing as this is an essential working function.
So basically, you're assuming anything they are claiming to improve won't be an actual improvement because you hope it is the case so that you'll feel more secure in being a fan of another brand's products?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
The electronic shutter may be silent, but what about the mirror?
I assume you've used current Canon DSLRs in Live View? The mirror stays locked up the entire time unless one has selected using the dedicated viewfinder PDAF system for AF instead of the using the default main imaging sensor based AF.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
317
236
Hamburg, Germany
I assume you've used current Canon DSLRs in Live View? The mirror stays locked up the entire time unless one has selected using the dedicated viewfinder PDAF system for AF instead of the using the default main imaging sensor based AF.
I think the comment's point was to show that the silence can only be achieved in LiveView, which is a limitation.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,212
773
I think the comment's point was to show that the silence can only be achieved in LiveView, which is a limitation.
Is it though? An optical VF can’t really be 100% silent when mechanic are involved. It’s the nature of a DSLR.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
I think the comment's point was to show that the silence can only be achieved in LiveView, which is a limitation.
The previous comment to which I was responded said nothing about Live View. It asked about the mirror.
 

Cochese

EOS 80D
Oct 22, 2014
113
49
It's money you might have wanted to use for something else. Like a downpayment for your new home. Or paid education for your children. Or, if you are really cheap, even a photo tour to Serengeti.


How much do you think an average pro photographer earns?
According the internet, around $52k - $72k a year, depending on what they do, their location, and how many clients they can take on. Most of the working (commercial) professionals I know are more around the $55-$60k mark. The one I work with/ for earns closer to $70k and will likely make a lot more in the coming year due to scoring three new contracts for GM events.
If we're talking the working wedding, senior, and/ or baby photographers (usually overlapping, but not always), I know and work with about a dozen or so (I'm the person they buy their prints from, framed, edited, etc...) and they all make around $30-$40k from the photography, and probably a little more from the prints, depending how they handle that part. It varies a lot.
None of them are using a 1D level of camera, or even Nikon D[x] level camera. Just a whole lot of 5DII/ III/ IV, and D700/ D800/810/ 850. Buy the camera you can afford, that gets the job done that you need. Not a single one of them are require a 1Dx level camera. I do know a few photographers who sport a 1Dx and and 1DxII. They're not professionals by any means. Just wealthy folk who are really really really into birding.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
According the internet, around $52k - $72k a year, depending on what they do, their location, and how many clients they can take on. Most of the working (commercial) professionals I know are more around the $55-$60k mark. The one I work with/ for earns closer to $70k and will likely make a lot more in the coming year due to scoring three new contracts for GM events.
If we're talking the working wedding, senior, and/ or baby photographers (usually overlapping, but not always), I know and work with about a dozen or so (I'm the person they buy their prints from, framed, edited, etc...) and they all make around $30-$40k from the photography, and probably a little more from the prints, depending how they handle that part. It varies a lot.
None of them are using a 1D level of camera, or even Nikon D[x] level camera. Just a whole lot of 5DII/ III/ IV, and D700/ D800/810/ 850. Buy the camera you can afford, that gets the job done that you need. Not a single one of them are require a 1Dx level camera. I do know a few photographers who sport a 1Dx and and 1DxII. They're not professionals by any means. Just wealthy folk who are really really really into birding.
How many salaried staff photographers do you know? I realize there are a lot fewer of them than just 5-10 years ago. Not many of them are making more than mid-five figures, and many do well to make the lower threshold of a mid-five figure salary. Of course, lots of them also do freelancing on the side...

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary of a photographer working in the United States was $36,580 as of May 2011. This is based on income actually reported to the IRS by people filing their tax return listing "photographer" as their primary occupation...

Yes, 2011 was eight years ago. While the cost of living has increased since then, the law of supply and demand has held full time photographer's compensation stagnant for the most part. The number of career staff photographers at media companies large and small has plummeted to near nothing.

Edit: OK, I found the most recent BLS numbers: In May, 2018 the average annual salary had increased to $42,770, but the median salary (the point at which half of the people make more and the other half make less) is only $34,000.

Here's zip recruiter's info as of 10/24/2019:

20191031ss1.png


A good number of folks in the U.S. in 2019 who describe themselves as a "photographer" for their primary occupation work for places that do school photos, guest photos at tourist attractions, etc. Those folks rarely make more than 10-15 bucks an hour. Many of them are seasonal workers who work full time for 3-4 months in the fall and another 2-3 months in the spring (school photography companies) or only work full time during peak tourist season for their locale.

Then there is the whole issue of self-employed photographers reporting their gross income rather than their net income when discussing it with others or self-reporting to sites like GlassDoor. As this slrlounge article illustrates, net income for independent wedding photographers is usually somewhere around half of gross after business expenses and taxes are subtracted.
 
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HarryFilm

EOS 7D MK II
Jun 6, 2016
452
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All of that and voiding your camera warranty at the same time - the benefits never end!
We've voided the warranty of EVERY camera we've got because we customize so much ...BUT... when you're a company that has 40+ C700's and 40+ C300 mk2's and 60+ 1Dx2s and who knows how many 5D 2's/3's/4's, Canon will do whatever we want them to if they want to ensure we buy another 40+ C500 mk2s! or 60 more 1Dx3's! And ADD other few million dollars worth of L-series lenses!

.

When we say fix it! Canon Says When Do You Need it By?

We haven't YET had a problem from Canon about getting our gear fixed/upgraded!

.
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,990
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Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
How many salaried staff photographers do you know? I realize there are a lot fewer of them than just 5-10 years ago. Not many of them are making more than mid-five figures, and many do well to make the lower threshold of a mid-five figure salary. Of course, lots of them also do freelancing on the side...

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average annual salary of a photographer working in the United States was $36,580 as of May 2011. This is based on income actually reported to the IRS by people filing their tax return listing "photographer" as their primary occupation...

Yes, 2011 was eight years ago. While the cost of living has increased since then, the law of supply and demand has held full time photographer's compensation stagnant for the most part. The number of career staff photographers at media companies large and small has plummeted to near nothing.

Edit: OK, I found the most recent BLS numbers: In May, 2018 the average annual salary had increased to $42,770, but the median salary (the point at which half of the people make more and the other half make less) is only $34,000.

Here's zip recruiter's info as of 10/24/2019:

View attachment 187307

A good number of folks in the U.S. in 2019 who describe themselves as a "photographer" for their primary occupation work for places that do school photos, guest photos at tourist attractions, etc. Those folks rarely make more than 10-15 bucks an hour. Many of them are seasonal workers who work full time for 3-4 months in the fall and another 2-3 months in the spring (school photography companies) or only work full time during peak tourist season for their locale.

Then there is the whole issue of self-employed photographers reporting their gross income rather than their net income when discussing it with others or self-reporting to sites like GlassDoor. As this slrlounge article illustrates, net income for independent wedding photographers is usually somewhere around half of gross after business expenses and taxes are subtracted.
Thanks for the thorough research. Interesting to know. But, I've forgotten what the debate was about. I think it had something to do with batteries. :)