Report: The next EOS R camera is reported to be undergoing field testing [CR1]

epiieq1

EOS 5D III, 1DX
Aug 9, 2013
33
17
I definitely need more stick time on my friend's A9 before I can fully judge its AF performance. And I do not want it to seem like I'm hand waving AI subject tracking. I'm certain it can increase keeper rates in certain situations.
Oh, I definitely agree. There were plenty of times I was frustrated as it wasn't doing what I wanted and I couldn't get it to focus where I wanted it to without choosing spot. I don't know if it was me, or just the way it was programmed.
 

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
290
113
A thicker body could hold a larger heat sink or other strategies for dissipating heat. It could also house larger, more powerful processors for high rate FPS of high MP sensors.
You're talking about body thickness, though, not flange-to-sensor distance. You could clearly make a thick body with a shallow flange-to-sensor offset and in fact the shallower the offset, the more volume there'd be in the body for other features (specifically, more room behind the sensor).

The only advantage I can see of 20mm instead of 16mm is that it makes all lenses just a TINY bit shorter.
 

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
290
113
It doesn't matter if Sony, Nikon or whoever else can do it, Canon cannot. Not right now.
Given their market dominance they can do anything the feel they have to. I generally like your comment, but I'd rephrase this last bit as "
It doesn't matter if Sony, Nikon or whoever else feels like they have to do it, Canon doesn't. Not right now."
 

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
70
60
you're right .. I'm sorry I didn't catch the III!!! it looked like two I's. I assumed you were talking about the EOS R(s) which was the original post. most of the post was in response to other posts through the first 3 pages though.

the 1DX Mark III would certainly have h.264, and yeah, I would imagine it will have great video. The lack of h.264 (or 5) and HDMI out was a DIGIC problem that DIGIC 8 fixed. I wouldn't be surprised if we see the first oversampled 4K video in that from Canon. They already can do it, just not yet in an ILC form factor.
Jeah, its gonna be a realy exciting camera :) looking forward to it. I love the image from the 1DX II, but the codec is realy a hassle. It can be edited easily in Premiere, but there is pretty much no videoplayer that can replay it fluently, which is annoying.

The EOS R II (or however they will call it) with a higher MPixel count will likely be only good for photo. I cant imagine they gonna figure out how to read this sensor out and transfer it to a good video image. However, for wedding, fashion, products this will be a enormous advantage in my opinion :)
 

scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,434
285
UK
www.flickr.com
50 megapixels or 75 megapixels isn’t much of a difference. I expect the big change in this camera will be computing power, look for dual (or quad) digic9 to handle the processing load.
Do extra processors imply higher power consumption? If so, do we think that means a new battery and/or a bigger body (than R/RP) to accommodate that (not to mention heat dissipation)?
 

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
290
113
If so, do we think that means a new battery and/or a bigger body (than R/RP) to accommodate that (not to mention heat dissipation)?
The EOS R has a vertical grip that takes two batteries, by the way. It's stupidly expensive given that it does nothing, really, so I haven't bought it yet, but I might, just because the R grip is about 1.5 fingers too short for my hand.
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
727
76
Thanks for confirming my statement that you define advancement based solely on your personal wants.

Opinion ≠ data. Data = data. People who believe their opinions represent facts deserve to be called crazy.

If the folks who have clamored for more DR or better FF video performance have eschewed Canon, and if those groups comprised a 'considerable number' of people, Canon's market share would have suffered. It hasn't. So either all the DRones and discerning FF ILC videographers are just spouting off here but buying Canon cameras anyway...or what you believe to be a 'considerable number' is, in reality, irrelevant. My money is firmly on the latter. But you go right on inflating the importance of your own opinion...reality hasn't changed it so far.
You're welcome- as do you! Once again, however, you totally mischaracterize the debate and it is no surprise. And exhibit your personal opinion, which is that data and sales are the answer to every forum discussion and feature request.

Yes, you, too, are pushing a personal agenda, one in data and sales are the answer to every question, so best for Canon to be lazy and not include features to expand the marketable demographic of who purchases cameras to expand marketshare.

My argument is that they could have made more money and have served their customers better, not simply play to the lowest common denominator by making the least effort. Canon left money on the Sony FF MILC table and they know it, which is why they have fast-tracked so many RF lenses and MILC bodies. This makes sense to most people.

As far as data goes, you only have to look at the recent (incorrect) info about Canon EOS-R Raw video recording and how excited people got over it to see how they could expand their marketshare with the video centric/hybrid crowd.

The real data here is that being obtuse and only spouting sales and data as the answer to every feature request to make a better Canon product is not solution, only a lazy and ineffectual response.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,379
1,727
The real data here is that being obtuse and only spouting sales and data as the answer to every feature request to make a better Canon product is not solution, only a lazy and ineffectual response.
I prefer to live in the real world. So does Canon. But you go on living in your fantasy world where your opinion is reality and Canon delivers every feature you ask for before you even ask for it. Have fun!
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
727
76
I prefer to live in the real world. So does Canon. But you go on living in your fantasy world where your opinion is reality and Canon delivers every feature you ask for before you even ask for it. Have fun!
If you lived in the real world all the time, you’d never be developing the next product or focused on the future. You’d simply be satisfied with what you have now. I admit that sales are necessary (hence my ability to also think in the real world) but since Canon has that, time to think about their vision for delivering the best products. No vision = no best products of the future.

In other words, Canon seems content to sell cameras by lowest common denominator at times, but as Steve Jobs said:
Some people say, "Give the customers what they want." But that's not my approach. Our job is to figure out what they're going to want before they do. I think Henry Ford once said, "If I'd asked customers what they wanted, they would have told me, 'A faster horse!'" People don't know what they want until you show it to them. That's why I never rely on market research. Our task is to read things that are not yet on the page.
-Steve Jobs

Maybe Canon will give us a video feature we didn’t know we wanted yet on their next camera, but at this point, it would really surprise me- they’re still catching up to where the goal was last time.
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
727
76
I always thought that tagline was a typical sort of mistake made by a Japanese conglomerate. Worked for a couple in my time. Once branding agencies get in their heads, odd things happen. You can read that as "See? Impossible!" Because it doesn't have punctuation in the real tagline, it invites different readings from different people. Similar to the North Carolina license plate tagline "first in flight." As a kid I always thought that referred to a retreat in the Civil War, which definitely is not what they meant.

Perhaps we can come up with some better taglines for Canon. On second thought, maybe the forum wouldn't be such a good place for that. "Canon has 56 percent share, so buzz off" has a certain ring of truth, but it wouldn't test well.
I LOVE this
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
727
76
To downsample it to 4k I think is a CPU problem: may need two DIGIC 8's or a DIGIC... 9?

Higher frame rates: I don't know enough to know if this requires a sensor upgrade or again is a CPU problem.

However there are ZILLIONS of things I'd like the camera to do that probably don't need any sensor upgrade at all.
That’s probably true.

Ironic, isn’t it? The “See Impossible” company is limited by CPU technology.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,379
1,727
If you lived in the real world all the time, you’d never be developing the next product or focused on the future. You’d simply be satisfied with what you have now. I admit that sales are necessary (hence my ability to also think in the real world) but since Canon has that, time to think about their vision for delivering the best products. No vision = no best products of the future.
What a ridiculous assertion. :rolleyes: Canon, like all companies, are constantly developing products for the future. Why else do we have the EOS R/RP, the SL3/250D, patents for several EF and RF lenses, etc.? The simple fact that you utterly and persistently fail to grasp is that Canon is developing products for their future, not your future. You seemingly can’t accept the fact that they are quite successful at developing products for the future, in spite of the 16 years of evidence staring you in the face, the preponderance of white lenses at major sporting events, etc. You are also assuming that your personal definition of ‘best products’ is universal, but that’s complete bullshit. For many people, the ‘best’ camera is one like the SL3/250D that produces very good images and is affordable, or the one with the most MP in a 35mm format (ie. the 5Ds/R). For a very few people (I am one of them), the ‘best’ lens is a hand-holdable 600mm f/4...and if I were like you, I’d be accusing Sony of lacking the vision or technical competence to produce such a lens, and I’d be demanding that they ‘catch up’.
 

crazyrunner33

EOS RP
Nov 4, 2011
257
79
I wonder about switching a camera between high and low/med. resolution. Is it the sensor doing the work or is it the digic processor? I would expect if it's the sensor then we'd get better quality than using a processor to take the 70+MP and process it down to a smaller size. Would the smaller res be as good as a camera that is dedicated to that size (one that is fine-tuned for it)? I guess, either way, it all depends how it gets that smaller res image.
That depends on the sensor used. Some of the newer Sony Semiconductor sensors are performing binning on the sensor level instead of the processor. An example of that is the sensor used in the GH5S(the low light M4/3 queen), BMPCC and the 8K Sharp camera(actually, a slightly modified version of this sensor) that's in development.

https://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/may_2017/imx294cjk_e.html

A lot of people assume the GH5S has amazing low light because of the low megapixel count and people assume the 8K Sharp camera will have an insane amount of noise due to the amount of tiny pixels. As we've seen, that's not the case. In 8K mode, the sensor is super sharp, below is an example of it in the Sharp prototype camera. You can see the detail really well if you have a 4K TV and turn the YouTube setting to 8K, or to 1440p if you're on a 1080 monitor. Lowlight doesn't look bad, but color and DR will not be as good as a binned 4K mode like on the GH5S.


I'm hoping the 70+ MP camera that Canon has on the horizon will use similar techniques and allow the user to choose between high resolution and lowlight/color/dr performance. That's assuming if there are no patents that'd violate Sony Semiconductor's patents.
 
The EOS R has a vertical grip that takes two batteries, by the way. It's stupidly expensive given that it does nothing, really, so I haven't bought it yet, but I might, just because the R grip is about 1.5 fingers too short for my hand.
I have it and it is great. Comes with the USB-C charger too which can charge the R body directly with grip removed and also the two batteries in the grip, albeit one at a time, sadly.

But it is great after a shoot to just plug in the USB charger and leave it. It also has the sync port, if anyone uses those anymore.

I am getting batteries down by only 15% after two hours of studio shooting (approx. 430 shots), which means about 12 hours shooting on two batteries in the grip and about 2500 shots, conservatively. Not bad at all.

It is built extremely well and the batteries clip in nicely.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,182
380
Given their market dominance they can do anything the feel they have to. I generally like your comment, but I'd rephrase this last bit as "
It doesn't matter if Sony, Nikon or whoever else feels like they have to do it, Canon doesn't. Not right now."
Canon have admitted in interview that they cannot do what Sony are doing because they do not have the sensor technology - and also admitted that they were concentrating on maintaining sensors for three lines (APS-C DSLR & M series, video and DSLR as well as more recently the developing R series). It seems Sony went all-in on developing the sensor for the FF cameras which seems to have paid off. Reading between the lines I assume that now they have the R series on the road they are putting a higher priority on sensor development.
Canon refuse to buy in sensor technology for their ILCs and you can criticise that decision all you want but for now the issue is 'Canon cannot...'.
 

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
Canon have admitted in interview that they cannot do what Sony are doing because they do not have the sensor technology - and also admitted that they were concentrating on maintaining sensors for three lines (APS-C DSLR & M series, video and DSLR as well as more recently the developing R series). It seems Sony went all-in on developing the sensor for the FF cameras which seems to have paid off. Reading between the lines I assume that now they have the R series on the road they are putting a higher priority on sensor development.
Canon refuse to buy in sensor technology for their ILCs and you can criticise that decision all you want but for now the issue is 'Canon cannot...'.
Except in terms of actually making money.
 

3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,041
375
Except in terms of actually making money.
You don’t think Sony generates profit selling full frame camera sensors? That seems unlikely to me. Surely they make more selling huge quantities of mobile device sensors, etc., but I doubt their larger sensor business operates without profit.
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,056
299
You don’t think Sony generates profit selling full frame camera sensors? That seems unlikely to me. Surely they make more selling huge quantities of mobile device sensors, etc., but I doubt their larger sensor business operates without profit.
Has Sony recovered the front end investments they put into developing their full frame cameras? Maybe so, maybe not.