The RF mount “Holy Trinity” should be ready to ship before the end of July 2019 [CR2]

jdavidse

EOS T7i
Sep 13, 2012
56
32
My small math exercise (in GBP):
  • Cost of R ~ 2k
  • Estimated cost of new trinity ~ 7k
  • Estimated value of old 5D IV ~1.5k
  • Estimated value of old trinity (Mk.III and 24-70Mk. II) ~ 4k
I don't doubt that R with new trinity will be great. But will it be £3.5k greater than existing setup? Considering that my trinity is probably worth less than 2k (16-35/f4, 70-200/2.8 Mk.II and Tamron 24-70/2.8 G1), the upgrade path will be ~ £5.5k. Will it be worth it for enthusiast? I don't think so.

Adapter makes it more affordable because I can still use existing EF lenses but my motivation to upgrade would be lenses, not the camera.
I’ve been doing this math as well. Seems the best way forward is to pick one RF lens for now and rely on the adapter for others, and slowly upgrade each lens over time. So this begs the question, which has priority? An argument for each: (just within the trinity)

EF 70-200 2.8 II + the adapter will be a monster compared to the new compact RF edition. Also you can likely carry a smaller bag with the new one if it fits vertically. If image quality is equal most will be happy, so advantage here is mostly size weighed against frequency of use.

RF 24-70 f2.8 IS: advantage here is obviously IS. If the new R body has IBIS this will be less of a factor. But for me, I think this consideration is lower on the list. Again, am assuming image quality is about equal.

RF 15-35 f2.8 IS: I think this one will be very popular for video users, but also may be the perfection of the genre of wide angle zoom. I’ve personally never owned a wide angle zoom in this range so maybe I don’t know what I’m missing, but for me this will be a tough call because the EF f/4 version will be so much cheaper in exchange for one stop, and usable for many of the applications such as landscape etc.

So personally my upgrade path will be RF 70-200, RF 24-70 and then maybe the 15-35, but then again maybe the EF f/4 for that.

That’s just of the trinity. But I think looking at all the RF lenses my upgrade path would look like this:

RF 50mm
RF 70-200 f/2.8
RF 24-70 f2.8
RF 85
RF 15-35

If there is a RF 35 1.4 or faster that would definitely go in the list as well
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: navastronia

yinzer

I'm New Here
Feb 25, 2019
14
23
Dual slots is not just about failure of the card itself in-camera, but also corruption of the card at the card reader, theft or loss etc. No professional who is shooting un-repeatable moments should be shooting on a single slot camera. This includes weddings, sports etc. You say you have a backup in case something goes wrong but this is about the moments that have already been captured on your (single) card slot that can never be repeated.

Bottom line is, if you are professional you can afford a camera with two cards. The R looks nice and all and these lenses are the future but there is no need to put your reputation on the line to jump over too early. The dual slot camera will come.
Exactly. Pro photographers have always relied on redundancy. Professional film cameras allowed you to insert two rolls of film for this exact reason. :p
 
  • Like
Reactions: Aaron D and wanako

jeffa4444

EOS 6D MK II
Feb 28, 2013
1,426
84
65
Dual slots is not just about failure of the card itself in-camera, but also corruption of the card at the card reader, theft or loss etc. No professional who is shooting un-repeatable moments should be shooting on a single slot camera. This includes weddings, sports etc. You say you have a backup in case something goes wrong but this is about the moments that have already been captured on your (single) card slot that can never be repeated.

Bottom line is, if you are professional you can afford a camera with two cards. The R looks nice and all and these lenses are the future but there is no need to put your reputation on the line to jump over too early. The dual slot camera will come.
Im not going to put something into a rental fleet if it will not rent to professionals, the fact we have 20 EOS R cameras going out consistently to customers (64% utilisation) answers my point. Another factor you missing is quite often these cameras are tethered in the studio and therefor are backed-up. Assistants back-up cards on-set / location to hard drives which is managing risk. In my experience we have far greater failures of CF / CFast cards (best CFast cards are Angel Bird) and almost zero failure of SD cards or their readers, we also fully test cards before & after use.

Clearly in any walk of life mechanical failures can happen and yes your right dual slot cameras are preferable, but many professionals use single slot cameras daily and the % failure rate is exceedingly low especially with SD cards.
 

Architect1776

Defining the poetics of space through Architecture
Aug 18, 2017
302
230
117
Williamsport, PA
And yet there is no camera of the same level to put them on... :oops:
I don't understand why you say this.
My L glass works wonderfully on my 7D and was an upgrade from my older non-L glass as I could afford the upgrade.
But the 7D still takes wonderful shots, if I do my part, with L glass.
So you are not making any sense seeing as there are two superior quality RF mount cameras already, the R and RP, that can fully utilize the lenses when introduced.
 

lawny13

EOS M50
Mar 6, 2019
29
40
Dual slots is not just about failure of the card itself in-camera, but also corruption of the card at the card reader, theft or loss etc. No professional who is shooting un-repeatable moments should be shooting on a single slot camera. This includes weddings, sports etc. You say you have a backup in case something goes wrong but this is about the moments that have already been captured on your (single) card slot that can never be repeated.

Bottom line is, if you are professional you can afford a camera with two cards. The R looks nice and all and these lenses are the future but there is no need to put your reputation on the line to jump over too early. The dual slot camera will come.
Are you a pro? That why you need two card slots? Cause I see A LOT of non-pro people complaining about it.

Highest mode to failure for SD cards is the handling. So taking it in and out, and at times file corruption at the reader. Knowing this... I simply keep the card in the body and use my MBP’s USB C cable to copy the files over. So that is a major decrease in risk.

The theft comment... pretty sure if they steal one card or bag containing it the other will be take with it?

As for the pro argument. I see people are t actually thinking logical/systematically about it. The 50 f1.3 and 28-70 f2 and 24-105 f4 are actually not event photography lenses. The later is a general purpose lens, and the other two more portraiture related. For that kind of “PRO” work the R is more than adequate.

Had canon release it “pro” body people would have had an issue with the other side of the equation (the lenses). Pros for events and once in a life time moments would still be missing the lenses that 80% of them would expect... the trinity f2.8 zooms. Typically would be running around with two bodies, one with the 24-70 and the other with the 70-200, with the 16-35 for group and environmental shots.

The 28-70, 50, and 35 and 24-105 hardly covers the need for pros that would find the need for a pro body that you are implying. If you don’t believe me talk to a sports or weddings photographer. These first lenses might be pro grade, but they are not the kind of pro level cases implied by those complaining about the body. I mean seriously, and you imagine a wedding photographers with 2 pro bodies and 2x 28-70 lenses? Why two of them you might ask, for redundancy, since a 28-70 and 50 combo won’t suffice because if something happens with the 28-70 just using a 50 isn’t good enough.

Now if you do portraits, still life, landscape, travel, stock, studio, etc etc all of those other types of genres not critical for a second card slot and/or high FPS the R is more than capable.
 

jdavidse

EOS T7i
Sep 13, 2012
56
32
Exactly. Pro photographers have always relied on redundancy. Professional film cameras allowed you to insert two rolls of film for this exact reason. :p
This reminds me of that argument about seat belts and helmets for riding bikes. "When I was a kid we didn't wear seat belts or a bike helmet and I turned out just fine." (Ignoring all the kids that died because they weren't buckled in or didn't wear a helmet.)
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,421
674
It seems to me that since the introduction of the mid-line R mirrorless and RP that we would see f4 series L lenses first? I understand Canons approach to addressing these larger aperture L lenses first, but there is no R camera let available that will more fully make use of the resolving potential of these lenses.
Canon has, in the past, upgraded lenses before sensors, they prepare for the future. The R and RP will certainly be able to make good use of them, I don't see a issue there. However, as long as I have a DSLR and a Mirrorless, I'll keep using my EF lenses.
 

jdavidse

EOS T7i
Sep 13, 2012
56
32
Are you a pro? That why you need two card slots? Cause I see A LOT of non-pro people complaining about it.

Highest mode to failure for SD cards is the handling. So taking it in and out, and at times file corruption at the reader. Knowing this... I simply keep the card in the body and use my MBP’s USB C cable to copy the files over. So that is a major decrease in risk.

The theft comment... pretty sure if they steal one card or bag containing it the other will be take with it?

As for the pro argument. I see people are t actually thinking logical/systematically about it. The 50 f1.3 and 28-70 f2 and 24-105 f4 are actually not event photography lenses. The later is a general purpose lens, and the other two more portraiture related. For that kind of “PRO” work the R is more than adequate.

Had canon release it “pro” body people would have had an issue with the other side of the equation (the lenses). Pros for events and once in a life time moments would still be missing the lenses that 80% of them would expect... the trinity f2.8 zooms. Typically would be running around with two bodies, one with the 24-70 and the other with the 70-200, with the 16-35 for group and environmental shots.

The 28-70, 50, and 35 and 24-105 hardly covers the need for pros that would find the need for a pro body that you are implying. If you don’t believe me talk to a sports or weddings photographer. These first lenses might be pro grade, but they are not the kind of pro level cases implied by those complaining about the body. I mean seriously, and you imagine a wedding photographers with 2 pro bodies and 2x 28-70 lenses? Why two of them you might ask, for redundancy, since a 28-70 and 50 combo won’t suffice because if something happens with the 28-70 just using a 50 isn’t good enough.

Now if you do portraits, still life, landscape, travel, stock, studio, etc etc all of those other types of genres not critical for a second card slot and/or high FPS the R is more than capable.
Yes. Wedding photographer here. I use only cameras with two slots for the redundancy and safety to safeguard their once in a lifetime images. Anything less is just irresponsible.

I do understand a lot of pro applications don't need that redundancy because you can have a studio with a tethered camera. But everyone jumping to the R at this moment in time, because they are too impatient to wait another 7 months for a dual slot R should check if it's just GAS driving it. Even if you are not a pro shooting someones wedding, or a landscape that you won't be able to reproduce, the loss of images can be devastating.

As for theft, I keep one copy of the cards on my person on all times, and another copy in my smallest bag. That way if someone steals my big suitcase of gear at a wedding they don't get the files. If I am robbed in the parking lot, they will never find the cards in my pocket.
 

jdavidse

EOS T7i
Sep 13, 2012
56
32
Im not going to put something into a rental fleet if it will not rent to professionals, the fact we have 20 EOS R cameras going out consistently to customers (64% utilisation) answers my point. Another factor you missing is quite often these cameras are tethered in the studio and therefor are backed-up. Assistants back-up cards on-set / location to hard drives which is managing risk. In my experience we have far greater failures of CF / CFast cards (best CFast cards are Angel Bird) and almost zero failure of SD cards or their readers, we also fully test cards before & after use.

Clearly in any walk of life mechanical failures can happen and yes your right dual slot cameras are preferable, but many professionals use single slot cameras daily and the % failure rate is exceedingly low especially with SD cards.
Ah, an assistant backing up my cards in real time. That's clearly what I'm missing in my workflow. You're right, dual slot cameras should just be scrapped in favor of single slot cameras w/included assistant+laptop that follows me around.
 

koenkooi

EOS 7D MK II
Feb 25, 2015
437
261
Ah, an assistant backing up my cards in real time. That's clearly what I'm missing in my workflow. You're right, dual slot cameras should just be scrapped in favor of single slot cameras w/included assistant+laptop that follows me around.
You can have a poor mans version of that with the R and RP, turn on auto-sync and it will send a jpg of each picture to your phone after taking it. Pack a few extra batteries and powerbanks :)
 

jdavidse

EOS T7i
Sep 13, 2012
56
32
You can have a poor mans version of that with the R and RP, turn on auto-sync and it will send a jpg of each picture to your phone after taking it. Pack a few extra batteries and powerbanks :)
Sounds like fun, but no thanks. The “poor mans version” is actually a $30 memory card to go into the 2nd slot.
 

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
82
79
It seems more like history is repeating itself. Canon introduced their first round of f/2.8L EF zooms in 1989, leading up to their professional body later that same year, presumably to ensure there was desirable glass available for pros to buy on day 1. Given how hard they're pushing the lens front, I think it's a safe bet a 1-series RF body will be showing up sooner rather than later (many months not years).
Hm, Olympic games in Tokyo MAY be a good opportunity for a 1-series RF Body. But on the other hand, there are no long telephoto lenses around for the RF Mount. Pros may use the adaptor, since it works quite well though.
I personaly think that mirrorless cameras are thanks to the EV simulation in the viewfinder a great system for sports photography.
 

FramerMCB

Canon 40D & 7D
Sep 9, 2014
377
75
52
You clowns are hilarious. These lenses will be great on an R.

Any word on pricing?
Well...the RF 15-35mm f/2.8L should come in around $1,799 or $1,899USD, the RF 24-70mm f/2.8L IS around $1,999 or even $2,199USD, and the RF 70-210mm f/2.8L IS around $2,399 or $2,299USD. I would be pleasantly surprised if my pricing is overstated by $100-$200USD but sadly don't think this will be the case. Hard to say though because they may want to come in around the current EF pricing at least of the Mk III on the big lens and the little zoom. But with the addition of IS on the 24-70mm I don't see any way on God's green earth it comes in at the same price point as the current EF version. (I should clarify - the non-sale prices for the EF versions.)
 

FramerMCB

Canon 40D & 7D
Sep 9, 2014
377
75
52
I bought the RP to be a travel camera and barely had it for two weeks before I went on a dream vacation to the Mediterranean. I seriously don't understand why having a lower feature, lower cost, lighter full frame camera is a bad thing. It was great for carrying around Barcelona, Nice, Monaco, and Cinque Terre. I didn't need 12 fps or a billion autofocus points. Even Swiss Army Knives come in many sizes and configurations.
I think Canon introducing the RP into the line-up was a brilliant, master-stroke of 'business-ship'. It is a great, great way (and gateway) to bring hobbyists/consumer crowd into the FF camp whilst maintaining a smaller form-factor (that's adjustable a-l-a the added grip). Considering that the xxD bodies when first introduced were all about that same price-point...
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
510
468
Are you a pro? That why you need two card slots? Cause I see A LOT of non-pro people complaining about it.

Highest mode to failure for SD cards is the handling. So taking it in and out, and at times file corruption at the reader. Knowing this... I simply keep the card in the body and use my MBP’s USB C cable to copy the files over. So that is a major decrease in risk.

The theft comment... pretty sure if they steal one card or bag containing it the other will be take with it?

As for the pro argument. I see people are t actually thinking logical/systematically about it. The 50 f1.3 and 28-70 f2 and 24-105 f4 are actually not event photography lenses. The later is a general purpose lens, and the other two more portraiture related. For that kind of “PRO” work the R is more than adequate.

Had canon release it “pro” body people would have had an issue with the other side of the equation (the lenses). Pros for events and once in a life time moments would still be missing the lenses that 80% of them would expect... the trinity f2.8 zooms. Typically would be running around with two bodies, one with the 24-70 and the other with the 70-200, with the 16-35 for group and environmental shots.

The 28-70, 50, and 35 and 24-105 hardly covers the need for pros that would find the need for a pro body that you are implying. If you don’t believe me talk to a sports or weddings photographer. These first lenses might be pro grade, but they are not the kind of pro level cases implied by those complaining about the body. I mean seriously, and you imagine a wedding photographers with 2 pro bodies and 2x 28-70 lenses? Why two of them you might ask, for redundancy, since a 28-70 and 50 combo won’t suffice because if something happens with the 28-70 just using a 50 isn’t good enough.

Now if you do portraits, still life, landscape, travel, stock, studio, etc etc all of those other types of genres not critical for a second card slot and/or high FPS the R is more than capable.
Don't agree!
Imagine spending a month in New Zealand, Japan or Utah, to find out, once back at home, that one 64 GB card failed.
Even if you had a second camera, many pictures will be lost forever (sometimes). I experienced this once, and, believe me or not, that's why I sold my cute little R to buy the 5 D IV. The failure occurred with a Leica and Sandisk SD, but , since I'm planning a longer trip to Japan, I wanted to be on the safe side...
And, by the way, why do you think that landscape, stills, portrait have less importance than sports or marriage???