1Ds Mark IV in 2011 or 2012 [CR2]

N

nzmargolies

Guest
Peerke said:
Stone said:
This doesn't surprise me at all, as the world economy continues to turn around and disposable income goes up Canon needs sales to fund R&D for the next generation. The 1Ds has never sold in great numbers and releasing a new $6 - $8K body that will NOT sell in great numbers probably doesn't make financial sense right now. Releasing a high performance, FF body would provide entry into a market where Canon isn't currently competing. The 1DIV comes at too high of a price point and competes with more expensive Nikon bodies so there is room here for another body to gain some market share.

I think we just might see the mythical 3D finally released to fill this niche with the 5DIII taking on the high MP "studio" duties until the next 1Ds is ready. I believe Canon wants the 1DsIV to crash the MF party where people are willing to pay a lot more for the ultimate in IQ. The 3D has been talked about for years, but it makes sense to release it now as it would complete Canon's advanced amateur, semi-pro lineup very nicely. 7D high performance crop, 5D ultimate FF IQ for studio work, 3D fast & FF 16-18MP for the "all of the above" shooters like myself. Canon would literally have something for everyone who wants to step up from the Rebels and upgrade their aging XXD cameras, many of these people myself included are considering the dark side because it seems that Canon wants us to buy 2 cameras to shoot everything we like. I still don't know what purpose the 60D serves, it seems to exist only to fill the price gap between the T2i and 7D.

The 1 series remains the ultimate workhorse with the best weather sealing, fastest FPS, best AF and great IQ, but also a niche camera.

Of course this is all wild speculation on my part, but it would allow Canon to compete on every front. People disagree with me but I'll bet Canon execs get a little heartburn every time they hear about the D700 and it's replacement, its a market they could have been dominating for years....
I agree 100%and would buy that 3D for sure.
same
 
D

davidpeter

Guest
Who cares "radical" upgrades? Canon simply forget to make good cameras. 5D is crippled by the AF, 7D sucks due to the too high MP, and i have to borrow my mate's D700, if I want good pictures in low light. Perhaps I should buy that...
 
S

scalesusa

Guest
This year, Canon has been doing minor updates. I would not be suprised if they decided to wait and do something like a mirrorless camera that obsoleted the APS-H series, or maybe two FF cameras.

There are no big break-thrus yet in sensors, but lots of tricks that can be done to make improvements. Maybe they are stepping back to re-think the situation. i'm sure that sony's new fixed mirror camera has come sooner than they had wanted. They hold a lot of patents in that area. Maybe sony has a FF pellicle camera coming soon, and Canon is setting up to match it.
 

awinphoto

EOS 5D Mark IV
Aug 26, 2010
2,090
0
www.reno-photography.com
davidpeter said:
Who cares "radical" upgrades? Canon simply forget to make good cameras. 5D is crippled by the AF, 7D sucks due to the too high MP, and i have to borrow my mate's D700, if I want good pictures in low light. Perhaps I should buy that...
I could go on and on about the quality of the 5D and 7D camera (since I use them) however you would probably call me a fanboy... However heard the phrase "different strokes for different folks"... Canon and Nikon builds cameras for different markets and different photographers and photographers needs and wants. In the end of the day, all it is is a glorified computer that captures the image... Choose and camera that suits your needs and quit trolling. Also dont dog cameras just because it wasn't marketed specifically for you.
 
R

Rukes

Guest
People are forggeting how old the 1Ds MkIII is, it's still the last in the Canon lineup to add video.

There are all the new features on the 1D MkIV to add to the 1Ds (bigger sensor, better dynamic range, more AF points, etc..) to make it "fresh", plus any new ones they didn't want to included in the slightly rushed-out 1D MkIV

On top of that, every single 1Ds has been released every 3 years every November, so it's at it's due date now.

Also, don't forget a CR2 is just someone who was right in the past. They could have been right in the past based on luck. Or even the source that the CR2 source is getting this info from got some bad info to pass on.

Bottom line: It's still a RUMOR, hence the site. It would suck if it were true, but i'm still holding my breath for a CR3 or Photokina.
 

Stone

EOS 90D
Sep 8, 2010
154
12
Rukes said:
People are forggeting how old the 1Ds MkIII is, it's still the last in the Canon lineup to add video.

There are all the new features on the 1D MkIV to add to the 1Ds (bigger sensor, better dynamic range, more AF points, etc..) to make it "fresh", plus any new ones they didn't want to included in the slightly rushed-out 1D MkIV

On top of that, every single 1Ds has been released every 3 years every November, so it's at it's due date now.

Also, don't forget a CR2 is just someone who was right in the past. They could have been right in the past based on luck. Or even the source that the CR2 source is getting this info from got some bad info to pass on.

Bottom line: It's still a RUMOR, hence the site. It would suck if it were true, but i'm still holding my breath for a CR3 or Photokina.
I agree it's just a CR2 rumor right now, but TBH, other than a few high dollar studio photogs and spec whores like myself

there aren't many people who are checking for this camera. $6-$8K is just too much scratch for most of us even those with disposable income. However far more people, myself included have cash in hand and are looking to buy in the $2-$3.5K range right now or within the next few months. Since the bodies in this range have all been out for a couple of years, we're all on the edge of our seats waiting for the new models to drop. There's a lot more anticipation and potential sales waiting for Canon & Nikon in this range and I think they both know it. Again, this is pure speculation by me and not in any way based on fact, just my knowledge of marketing and supply/demand which I deal with daily.

I know Canon needs a flagship for bragging rights if nothing else, but the 1Ds really has only one competitor in the D3x and they are pretty much still equally matched in performance and price, it really boils down to which brand you prefer. The 1Ds was released in 11/07 and the D3x about a year later, if Nikon sticks to their 4 year release cycle, the D4x won't be released for another 2 years, Canon probably feels like they have plenty of time to put out the 1Ds and are concentrating on more profitable SLRs.
 

J

EOS M50
Jul 21, 2010
49
0
As far as "radical" developments go, I'm hoping it's programmability. That would be quite the departure from existing cameras and would require that Canon document hardware and firmware in a way they haven't done before.

Think CHDK for SLRs. Hacks built in and encouraged!
 
R

Rukes

Guest
The only reason for me with sticking with the 1Ds series is superior low-light AF with full frame, it's the only one in the Canon linup with it.

If Canon made a 3D with comparable AF, low megapixel sensor and high ISO, I would definately drop the 1Ds. Same if they improved the AF with the 5D series.

Otherwise i'm stuck with the 1Ds series if I want to have perfectly composed images in the camera with low-light lenses.
 
E

Edwin Herdman

Guest
I'm finding Rukes and Anastas to have the most interesting comments here.

Personally I've been expecting the 5D Mark II sooner than the 1Ds Mark IV; the lower-end a camera is the more regular the updates have to be, else they cede that segment to more up-to-date cameras from other manufacturers. Yes, the 1Ds is three years old at this point, but it may well be that Canon is taking an extra year (over the usual three - year schedule for the 1Ds series, i.e. Mark II in 2004, Mark III in 2007, though the original 1Ds was replaced in two years after a 2002 Photokina unveiling) to reshuffle the lineup and features again.

I don't know if the need for most people will be as strong after / if the 5D Mark III (or something more expensive...) is released - full-frame and with an upgraded (finally) autofocus system, both of which are obvious selling points for the 5D line, unless they rejigger that line too. I haven't a clue how Canon will justify something in the 1Ds price range but it may involve video or certain features - perhaps the body will incorporate some features previously seen only in expansion modules like the WFT, for instance (we've already seen how even the 60D has greater integration re controlling flashes than previous models).
 
V

VJA

Guest
1Ds III N?

Could the rumors that there is a "new 1Ds" coming at Photokina be true, even though the 1Ds IV might not come until 2011 or 2012? If the 1Ds IV does not come until 2012, it would make sense, possibly to release another camera in the meantime. It seems likely that the 5D upgrade would be the one. But could there be a 1Ds III N at Photokina? Maybe not though. After all, what could they add to the 1Ds III? Video? Why?
 
J

Justin

Guest
Bring on the 5D3 for $2999 - 24 mpx full frame sensor, 5 fps, vastly improved AF system, additional video functions.

The 5D2 can co-exist as the cheaper older version (lower msrp to $2199),

Who says there can't be co-existing higher models. T2i and T1i co-exist.
 

AJ

EOS RP
Sep 11, 2010
668
75
don't think so

I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.
 

Stone

EOS 90D
Sep 8, 2010
154
12
Re: don't think so

AJ said:
I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.
Would you rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k a pop or 50,000 cameras at $2.5K? Its all about total revenue. Very, very few people amateur or professional can justify the pricetag of a 1Ds....
 

AJ

EOS RP
Sep 11, 2010
668
75
Re: don't think so

Stone said:
AJ said:
I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.
Would you rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k a pop or 50,000 cameras at $2.5K? Its all about total revenue. Very, very few people amateur or professional can justify the pricetag of a 1Ds....
I'd rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k, have it pay for R&D, then put the same technology in a lower-end cam and mass produce, sell 50,000 units at $2.5k.

Given your logic, why would canon have charged $8k for the previous 1Ds models when they could have sold more of 'em at a lower price. But they did....
 
M

macfly

Guest
AJ, I'm with you on the logic of selling the high ticket item first, then after a year release the mass market version.

Add to logic the image of the big cat taken with the Mk IV tag at the Canon expo, and my local camera store here in LA (Samys) are saying 'get your credit cards ready boys', makes it all sound like the Mk IV is closer, and almost certainly closer than a 5D mklll.
 
C

Canon 14-24

Guest
To those that are wishing/wanting a 3D like camera, would they still pony the extra dough for it?
With the 7D and 1D series the difference in price mainly to a superior AF system is quite dramatic. I doubt Canon would release a FF superior AF digital camera for under $3grand starting. I would assume a price of $3499 going up seems about right (though Canon would then seem to 1up me as usual and price it something like $3799/3999+), but then again that's like a 7D + 5D2 right there.
 

Stone

EOS 90D
Sep 8, 2010
154
12
Re: don't think so

AJ said:
Stone said:
AJ said:
I'm not buying it. 5D3 ahead of 1Ds4? 1Ds is supposed to be the flagship. Already folks are buying 5D2 over 1Ds3 to save coin, similar IQ for a lot less dough. Why would Canon put their cutting-edge stuff in a $2.5 k box (5D3) when they can charge $8k for it by sticking it in a 1Ds body.
Would you rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k a pop or 50,000 cameras at $2.5K? Its all about total revenue. Very, very few people amateur or professional can justify the pricetag of a 1Ds....
I'd rather sell 5,000 cameras at $8k, have it pay for R&D, then put the same technology in a lower-end cam and mass produce, sell 50,000 units at $2.5k.

Given your logic, why would canon have charged $8k for the previous 1Ds models when they could have sold more of 'em at a lower price. But they did....
Given how long it would take you to sell those 5,000 $8K bodies to a much smaller market of potential buyers, you'd be lucky to be in business long enough to to develop your $2.5K value leader. ;D

I'd sell the $2.5K bodies at a much faster rate to a much, much larger audience and realize a far more rapid ROI allowing me the operating revenue I need to stay in business and expand my production capabilities. A portion of that revenue could then go into R&D and be used to produce my "flagship". Economies of scale FTW....
 
T

Tonyflo

Guest
Hi Guys,

I'm not a still photographer (though I wish I had some formal training in photography!) -- my focus is video and film. From what I see, the 5D Mark II is obviously selling very well and getting a lot of free advertising from leaders in the DSLR film movement. However, there are also many flaws as some have noted:

- Poor HDMI ports/location of ports/HDMI connectors break easily
- Drops to 480p when using external monitor
- Main LCD not viewable when monitoring
- No HD-SDI monitoring support (need converters, which are a pain)
- Rolling shutter when camera is moved quickly
- Occasional aliasing, moire, and line skipping
- No 1080p or even 720p at 60fps (therefore hard to use for slowmo)
- Poor audio and controls
- Good in low light, but not as good as Nikon
- Only 1080p -- not 3k or 4k; No "raw" video mode

Still, despite all these problems, there are TONS of budding filmmakers buying or renting 5Ds -- and Canon is getting lots of free exposure and marketing.

However, most of these people are not totally loyal to Canon -- just to the best camera for their needs. So if a competitor comes out with something better (i.e. Panasonic, Nikon or even the ever-delayed Red Scarlet) ... they could have customers jump ship.

Also, there are many many people on the fence -- unsure of what to buy, or wondering if/when Canon will come out with something better.

So with the explosion in using these cameras for film -- if they released an update for the 5D soon that solved all these issues ... it would be the "ultimate" indie film camera. And an important step forward for pros like those who shot House on the 5D or Lucasfilms, who are beginning to use it more.

Thus, the strategy behind releasing a 5D3 soon would be to get so many new people on board who would also buy lots of lenses and other stuff, specifically for Canon. This would make it harder for someone to switch to Nikon or Panasonic later.

In a sense, I'm in this boat. I'm about ready to buy a 5D, despite it's issues, because it's still the best camera in its price class for my needs. And I'll also probably buy about $4,000-5000 in Zeiss Prime lenses in Canon ef mount.

Oh well ... no matter what, it doesn't look like they will be releasing the new 5D in time for me to wait -- so I will most likely get a current 5D2 and then sell it at a steep discount or use it as a "b" camera when the new one comes out.

Or .... (fingers crossed) the 1Ds will actually solve all these problems, come out in the next 30 days, and retail for the low, low price of just $4997!!!! ;-)

But given everything I see on this board, that seems about as likely as the Red Scarlet coming out soon! :p

Anthony
 
A

Anastas

Guest
Justin said:
Bring on the 5D3 for $2999 - 24 mpx full frame sensor, 5 fps, vastly improved AF system, additional video functions.

The 5D2 can co-exist as the cheaper older version (lower msrp to $2199),

Who says there can't be co-existing higher models. T2i and T1i co-exist.
Count me for one ;)
 
K

kai

Guest
Glad to finally heard news of 5D3!
Please canon, give us a fast AF, adjustable upper iso in auto mode, raw video output enable. That's all I want to upgrade from 5D2 to 5D3!
As for the upgrade from 21MP to 28MP, that's not my preference. I even start to worry its low light capability and overall picture quality. I'd prefer 21MP or even lower it to 18MP.