8K recording options for the Canon EOS R5 leak

[buxtehude]

can you record raw on 4K?
8K Raw is too much for my needs.

 

[TomR]

Do we have any idea of when the R5 will start shipping ?

not soon enough

 

[definedphotography]

can you record raw on 4K?
8K Raw is too much for my needs.

Apparently yes, though no one yet knows which modes that applies to.

 

[core57]

8k*30fps = 4*4k*30fps = 4k*120fps [confirmed]
the same way:
4k*120fps = 4*2k*120fps = 2k*480fps
If on paper the sensor is able to do 480fps, it should able to do it in reality.
Though now all I hope for is adequate rolling shutter speed

 

[tpatana]

8k*30fps = 4*4k*30fps = 4k*120fps [confirmed]
the same way:
4k*120fps = 4*2k*120fps = 2k*480fps
If on paper the sensor is able to do 480fps, it should able to do it in reality.
Though now all I hope for is adequate rolling shutter speed

I would love even 1080p240, let alone 1080p480.

 

[R1-7D]

View attachment 191163

Makes me wonder if we’ll get some YouTube “reviews” (using the term lightly) after the 9th.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

Another example is the fact that the R5 does not have the touch sensitive AF button from the 1DX3; sure a few users complained but everyone kind of understands that hardware feature is probably expensive and would have driven up the costs of the R5 to unacceptable levels. IMO wanting to get the full capabilities out of the HW that you paid for and that other vendors are offering is not an unreasonable expectation and when that expectation is not met then I consider the HW crippled via the SW.

Not disputing the merits of your overall argument but I think the touch sensitive joystick is task specific for IDX type sports shooters using OVF DSLR's. I don't know how many mirrorless users are working the joystick the same way as those single AF point sport shooters. Sure it's a sexy gizmo but in reality smart AI auto-focus with Eye AF and subject tracking are what mirror-less shooter want. Even with the touch joystick shooting that way is thumb killer. Apples and oranges IMO.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

8k*30fps = 4*4k*30fps = 4k*120fps [confirmed]
the same way:
4k*120fps = 4*2k*120fps = 2k*480fps
If on paper the sensor is able to do 480fps, it should able to do it in reality.
Though now all I hope for is adequate rolling shutter speed

Those are equivalent data rates but that ignores that that the shutter has to keep up to that data. I don't think it works that way even if you bin and only read every 16th pixel in 2K. Maybe if you cropped to a sixteenth of the sensor but that won't be a popular decision.

 

[tpatana]

Those are equivalent data rates but that ignores that that the shutter has to keep up to that data. I don't think it works that way even if you bin and only read every 16th pixel in 2K. Maybe if you cropped to a sixteenth of the sensor but that won't be a popular decision.

Shutter? Pretty sure when in video, there's no shutter other than e-shutter used to read the sensor at given intervals.

 

[Graphic.Artifacts]

Shutter? Pretty sure when in video, there's no shutter other than e-shutter used to read the sensor at given intervals.

Yes the electronic rolling shutter. It takes a finite amount of time to sequentially read the sensor. In the case of the R5 that's probably about 1/30th of a second in 8k and 120th in 4k. hopefully it's a bit faster than that to reduce ERS distortion but I wouldn't count on it. Many are assuming that it's not reading all of the pixels at 120th in 4K but we don't know that yet.

In order to do what was suggested, 2k at 480 fps, the ERS has to read the shutter 480 times a second. Safe to say it can't do that despite the fact that it would generate the same amount of data as 8K30p. The data rate is not the limiting factor. The rolling shutter is. At least that's my understanding, If that's not right I'm sure somebody will let me know.

 

[Daan Stam]

Hollllly shhhit. That is pretty much game changing. Would this have DPAF. Because that would be literally insane.

 

[Traveler]

We’ve seen every side of this camera except the bottom. Could that be where the secret to keeping it from overheating is?

Maybe the metal lens mount can help. It's quite big and it even continues to the lens (or the adapter)

 

[ahsanford]

Just dropped:

"45 million pixel full size sensor mirrorless camera "EOS R5" compatible with 8KDCI cinematic movies that can capture still images of 35.4 million pixels"

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1280611215027232768

- A

 

[Kit.]

I'm sitting here confused and wondering how stills are compromised by video functions?

Video itself doesn't. The particular hardware tricks that make a camera better for video, but worse for stills, do.

but i don't see how it "breaks" any photo related features, you either turn DGO on or off - if it does have it.

IMO people are getting carried away thinking it's DGO - and already writing cheques based upon it.

On or off, you still need to budget for it in your camera design. And that includes not only BoM costs, but power consumption (and dissipation) as well.

Besides, as I said, I would not expect DGO in a fanless 8K camera with stills ergonomics for now.

As far as affecting resale value, of course additional video features will help resale value because the used camera will appeal to a larger user (of course, that is WHY Canon includes video features is the cameras in the first place...)

Do you realize that this half-announced camera has already lost its projected "video resale value" - with the H.266 codec specification released yesterday?

I'm pretty sure that in 2 years from now, H.266 will be the codec of choice for encoded 8K video, and I wouldn't expect it to be backported into R5 with just a firmware update.

 

[TomR]

Do you realize that this half-announced camera has already lost its projected "video resale value" - with the H.266 codec specification released yesterday?

this is a pretty hilarious declaration

h265 has been around since 2013 and still not the standard.

 

[Kit.]

this is a pretty hilarious declaration

h265 has been around since 2013 and still not the standard.

H.265 is that R5 is using, according to Canon.

 

[TomR]

H.265 is that R5 is using, according to Canon.

Yes it is

 

[Ozarker]

Video itself doesn't. The particular hardware tricks that make a camera better for video, but worse for stills, do.

How so?

 

[Kit.]

Can you provide a source for your info please? It seems to be pretty different from anything I have seen yet and I am curious if you are basing it on speculation or if there's a place where one could read up in what you are saying.

Edit: to clarify, I am specifically talking about the statements about DGO. The parts where it involves two ADCs and amplifiers as well as that it generates heat (to a degree that that's worth mentioning. Obviously electronics do it to some level).

You can read up it here. It's still speculation, but at least it doesn't contradict common sense and basic physics, unlike the claims that a camera uses dual-pixel architecture for both dual-gain acquisition and autofocus at the same time, and that reading a half-pixel for exposure will lead to increased DR.

As to generating heat, there is not much more than amplifying, converting, transferring and processing those (extra) bits per second that generates heat in the camera. If only the EVF.

How so?

Please reread the posts you are replying to. I don't see how repeating the arguments again and again would be helpful if you don't read them.

If you have any particular objections to my arguments there, you are free to post them.

 

[Joules]

You can read up it here. It's still speculation, but at least it doesn't contradict common sense and basic physics, unlike the claims that a camera uses dual-pixel architecture for both dual-gain acquisition and autofocus at the same time, and that reading a half-pixel for exposure will lead to increased DR.

But AF and DGO seemingly don't need to happen at the same time. Did somebody suggest otherwise? I was under the impression that Canon uses separate sensor reads to get DPAF and image data. Since they clearly can switch DGO off (see higher frame rates), DPAF can work as usual and DGO be applied to the image frames.

I don't see how the idea that the two diodes in a pixel are amplified differently to increase DR break physics, as you seem to imply. Your quoted article didn't touch on that. It seems very much like the hidden mode with dual ISO for alternating rows of pixels that Magic Lantern unlocked way back when. That did definitely help for DR, since the read noise was much more brutal in the cameras that profited from that feature (5D III, 60D, 600D etc). Apart from parallax, what issue do you see from getting this effect with the half pixels?