A Bit of EOS 7D Replacement Info [CR2]
- Thread starter Canon Rumors
- Start date
Khalai said:Lightmaster said:what has wifi to do with higher megapixels and framerate?
give it 802.11ac.
If WiFi means polycarbonate top plate like 6D, they probably sacrificed it for the sake of ultimate build. Also, if you would ever need WiFi, you can always buy Canon WiFi module (for extraorbitant price that is).
There is NO technical reason to not include WiFi, regardless of toughness or type of material. You can put WiFi in anything. This is purely a question of how to manipulate the market and target user to get maximum profit. That's what it's ALWAYS ABOUT. Anyone who thinks that Canon is sweating the small stuff because they love photographers and care about building a perfect camera to help photographers be more creative is being naive.
It's ALWAYS ABOUT THE MONEY, it always has been and it always will be!
The bottom line is that Canon would rather charge $4000 for a body (that might be a 1D class build) without WiFi and another $600 for the WiFi module for all those professionals out there that absolutely must have it at any price. (Sorry for the snark but it irritates me that Canon often chooses the ultra-expensive route.) Me, I'll use the Eye-Fi card unless Canon does something to sabotage that idea like they have done recently with firmware updates to stop 3rd party batteries. (Don't get me started!
)I predict I'll be getting a 70D soon. I just need a better sensor and frame rate than my 60D. I don't need a 1D wanna-be body with a price to match.
Upvote
0
Mt Spokane Photography said:
I've used my computer to pull photos off my 6D with Wi-Fi, and I've never used Canon's image site. Just use EOS Utility instead of whatever you're using. That said, since Canon doesn't support 802.11ac, sticking the flash card in your computer is a lot faster. The more interesting reasons to use Wi-Fi are:
- Remote shooting (control and viewing)
- Copying photos to your phone (at reduced quality) for a quick upload to Facebook
And if it were supported, I'd also add automated backups to that list.
Upvote
0
RustyTheGeek said:
Agreed. It's always about the money. It has to be -- it's a business, not philanthropy! A business's first priority must be to stay in business. Next priority is profit for its stakeholders (otherwise, who would risk investing their money, and if no one invests, how does the business support growth and development?). How the business responds to market needs is simply the strategy to achieve these ends.
Anyone who thinks that building the perfect camera to help photographers be more creative will keep the company financially viable for decades in a highly competitive market is also naive.
Here's a thought: How would a wedding or portrait photographer's business do if he or she only offered one package at one price -- the one they thought was the perfect package for everyone? Wouldn't such an approach narrow their market and limit their revenue?
Another thought: Research into new technology is expensive and does NOT include a guaranteed return on that investment -- it's risky! Do companies try to squeeze as much revenue out of the market as possible? You bet they do! For profits, yes, but also to fund research that carries significant risk.
Another thought: The companies we see being "innovative" or "bold" (like Sony) are taking tremendous risk in an attempt to gain market share. Their position in the industry compels them to take these risks to stay competitive. The market leader need not take more risk than is necessary. Such a measured strategy helps protect long term financial viability and funds risk-laden research -- despite the heartburn it causes some consumers.
Another?
Products are released in cycles and there will be alternating periods of excitement and lull, but some seem to forget that the lull is in the market, not the lab. That lull also produces revenues that recoup development and production costs and hopefully provide enough profit to fund future products.All that being said, I'll worry about the 7DII specs if/when a 7DII is announced.
Upvote
0
Yep Famateur, you pretty much nailed it. I thought later that my post could have been interpreted as negative but it's actually neutral. It's just a fact and you elaborated on that fact well.
That being said, there are some things that really irritate me, like the 5D3 not having a removable focus screen. 6D and 1DX do, but the 5D3 doesn't. Same with Canon not having built-in intervalometers. There's actually quite a list of things that Canon does (or omits) that don't really affect profit either way but yet they do it anyway. It's very frustrating when good money is spent on a high dollar camera that isn't entry level.
That being said, there are some things that really irritate me, like the 5D3 not having a removable focus screen. 6D and 1DX do, but the 5D3 doesn't. Same with Canon not having built-in intervalometers. There's actually quite a list of things that Canon does (or omits) that don't really affect profit either way but yet they do it anyway. It's very frustrating when good money is spent on a high dollar camera that isn't entry level.
Upvote
0
While I would certainly like/expect WiFi, I have yet to use it on my 6D. I will, however, be disappointed if it does not have a touchscreen like the M. I really just want to see this newly designed sensor and and see what implications it has on the future of Canon's cameras...
Upvote
0
If the 7D ends up with more than 24MP and the next 5D is also high MP then it'll be a really tough choice. If they're both low MP... I don't like thinking about that option.
I really wish everything had Wifi (and hopefully a built in flash RT commander).
I really wish everything had Wifi (and hopefully a built in flash RT commander).
Upvote
0
First post here, been lurking this place over the 7DII lately.
I use the 70D's Wifi for important placement and shots I can never get hand holding. Like on a birds nest or on a Feeder. The Wifi works good and compared to what else is there I love it! It really is a feature so useful to me I can't understand how it is not built in with cameras being released these day, 5 years ago I would agree with not going WIFI but today everything has WIFI, even Thermostats and cars and ovens! This is why I won't buy any Nikon, because if the device was designed and built correct from the start then you shouldn't need to add a dongle later. Once you put a DSLR with WIFI on a cheap remote controlled car your imagination will explode with ideas on you can not only use WIFI but never live without it again!
On the subject of a Touch Screen. Most people who are used to shooting DSLR's know life only using buttons. But I would guess most of you use touch screen phones. Remember the day you went from a button phone to your first touch screen, that was a day you knew you would never go back to buttons on a phone. Once you get used to using a DSLR with a Touch screen it is the same thing. Again if it was 5 years ago i would agree but today the quality of touch screens are amazing, Gorilla glass is incredible!
I don't buy the idea of Canon not going wifi over reception, not at all. This day you can put antennas on the plastic door covers on the card slots and still get great reception. Same goes with GPS.
I also don't buy Canon not doing Touch Screen over reliability, Any iPhone screen is many times stronger than any screen ever placed on any DSLR.
If..and this is IF Canon does not do these two modern day features that are standard on everything we have today it would be because they want the 70D to keep its market place. It will force a bunch of people to the 70D line because they know there will be a load of people buying up the 7Dii regardless. I also see them doing a minor update in a few years that will include WIFI and Touch Screen, like Nikons 5100-5200-5300-etc. They will be able to sell more by milking customers over time by small updates.
BTW..Awesome Forum you people have here!
I use the 70D's Wifi for important placement and shots I can never get hand holding. Like on a birds nest or on a Feeder. The Wifi works good and compared to what else is there I love it! It really is a feature so useful to me I can't understand how it is not built in with cameras being released these day, 5 years ago I would agree with not going WIFI but today everything has WIFI, even Thermostats and cars and ovens! This is why I won't buy any Nikon, because if the device was designed and built correct from the start then you shouldn't need to add a dongle later. Once you put a DSLR with WIFI on a cheap remote controlled car your imagination will explode with ideas on you can not only use WIFI but never live without it again!
On the subject of a Touch Screen. Most people who are used to shooting DSLR's know life only using buttons. But I would guess most of you use touch screen phones. Remember the day you went from a button phone to your first touch screen, that was a day you knew you would never go back to buttons on a phone. Once you get used to using a DSLR with a Touch screen it is the same thing. Again if it was 5 years ago i would agree but today the quality of touch screens are amazing, Gorilla glass is incredible!
I don't buy the idea of Canon not going wifi over reception, not at all. This day you can put antennas on the plastic door covers on the card slots and still get great reception. Same goes with GPS.
I also don't buy Canon not doing Touch Screen over reliability, Any iPhone screen is many times stronger than any screen ever placed on any DSLR.
If..and this is IF Canon does not do these two modern day features that are standard on everything we have today it would be because they want the 70D to keep its market place. It will force a bunch of people to the 70D line because they know there will be a load of people buying up the 7Dii regardless. I also see them doing a minor update in a few years that will include WIFI and Touch Screen, like Nikons 5100-5200-5300-etc. They will be able to sell more by milking customers over time by small updates.
BTW..Awesome Forum you people have here!
Upvote
0
Can we please have voice annotation on something OTHER than the 1D line?
Nikon does it, why the F*&k doesn't Canon? I think I agree with the poster above about their lack of vision.
But, as I said, that comment on WiFi came from Westfall.. But who knows what Japan is thinking. I think they act like a human centipede sometimes (look it up of you don't know what it is) and the programmers in Japan don't want to disgrace their managers by suggesting kick ass features.
An open API would be wonderful too. Look at the things MagicLantern has been able to to with cameras.
I could only imagine a camera that ran Android or some OS that had a completely open UI/API's.. As a Software developer I'd be in heaven. The lack of a built in intervalometer, the ability to only shoot 7 bracketed shots, I have a list a mile long that should be in the software of the camera but just don't exist.
Add to that, I found out what a pig the 1Dx is when you connect it directly to a laptop with an Ethernet cable. It SUCKS. It's painfully slow and the gigabit ethernet is faster than the internal throughput of the camera. FAIL. Instead if you want fast transfers to a laptop you need to use the wifi transmitter which I was told has it's own buffer in it so you lose that slowdown you get with a physical wire.. Which made no sense to me. Why include an Ethernet port if you are going to make it so crippled. I shot 3 football games and gave up. I was using that for the reason I didn't have a USB3 port in my laptop at the time.. from then on out I just started locking files and downloading the locked files.
One more thing.. the 1Dx can customize buttons, which is great.. However, once you set your voice annotation to Record/Protect there is no way to playback the annotation. Unless you go into the menu, change its function and playback again, which I thought was absolutely retarded as a software engineer. There are extra programmable buttons but they can only be programmed to do certain features.. when you should be able to assign any button ANY feature.
Nikon does it, why the F*&k doesn't Canon? I think I agree with the poster above about their lack of vision.
But, as I said, that comment on WiFi came from Westfall.. But who knows what Japan is thinking. I think they act like a human centipede sometimes (look it up of you don't know what it is) and the programmers in Japan don't want to disgrace their managers by suggesting kick ass features.
An open API would be wonderful too. Look at the things MagicLantern has been able to to with cameras.
I could only imagine a camera that ran Android or some OS that had a completely open UI/API's.. As a Software developer I'd be in heaven. The lack of a built in intervalometer, the ability to only shoot 7 bracketed shots, I have a list a mile long that should be in the software of the camera but just don't exist.
Add to that, I found out what a pig the 1Dx is when you connect it directly to a laptop with an Ethernet cable. It SUCKS. It's painfully slow and the gigabit ethernet is faster than the internal throughput of the camera. FAIL. Instead if you want fast transfers to a laptop you need to use the wifi transmitter which I was told has it's own buffer in it so you lose that slowdown you get with a physical wire.. Which made no sense to me. Why include an Ethernet port if you are going to make it so crippled. I shot 3 football games and gave up. I was using that for the reason I didn't have a USB3 port in my laptop at the time.. from then on out I just started locking files and downloading the locked files.
One more thing.. the 1Dx can customize buttons, which is great.. However, once you set your voice annotation to Record/Protect there is no way to playback the annotation. Unless you go into the menu, change its function and playback again, which I thought was absolutely retarded as a software engineer. There are extra programmable buttons but they can only be programmed to do certain features.. when you should be able to assign any button ANY feature.
Upvote
0
dgatwood said:
Perhaps, although I bet a better move for them would be to fire some of the marketing guys and MBA types who are likely ordering the hardware and software to remove this and that and not do this and that.
Upvote
0
Famateur said:RustyTheGeek said:
Agreed. It's always about the money. It has to be -- it's a business, not philanthropy! A business's first priority must be to stay in business. Next priority is profit for its stakeholders (otherwise, who would risk investing their money, and if no one invests, how does the business support growth and development?). How the business responds to market needs is simply the strategy to achieve these ends.
Anyone who thinks that building the perfect camera to help photographers be more creative will keep the company financially viable for decades in a highly competitive market is also naive.
Here's a thought: How would a wedding or portrait photographer's business do if he or she only offered one package at one price -- the one they thought was the perfect package for everyone? Wouldn't such an approach narrow their market and limit their revenue?
Another thought: Research into new technology is expensive and does NOT include a guaranteed return on that investment -- it's risky! Do companies try to squeeze as much revenue out of the market as possible? You bet they do! For profits, yes, but also to fund research that carries significant risk.
Another thought: The companies we see being "innovative" or "bold" (like Sony) are taking tremendous risk in an attempt to gain market share. Their position in the industry compels them to take these risks to stay competitive. The market leader need not take more risk than is necessary. Such a measured strategy helps protect long term financial viability and funds risk-laden research -- despite the heartburn it causes some consumers.
Another?
All that being said, I'll worry about the 7DII specs if/when a 7DII is announced.
OTOH where are Atari and CBM today? They had the best and the brightest and best hardware and software guys but they wanted to milk, milk, milk and hold back and maximize profit and well they milked and maximized themselves out of business (dirty tricks by Apple/Microsoft/IBM and a sometimes paid off press didn't help, but a lot was on the management philosophy of the companies that failed). Atari could've beaten Apple to the market with a GUI interface in a home computer (plus had it done with far better hardware and OS underbelly- see the Amiga, only Atari wanted to milk 8bits longer and kept telling the engineers to get lost and let us milk more, here is no need for anything more advanced yet, etc. etc. and they ended up losing the tech and by the time CBM got it MAC was already out for a year and then more bad decisions combined with lots of dirty tricks by the other companies let it never take off the way it should have (it already had pre-emptive multi-tasking, autoconfig hardware bus, separate graphics bus, fancy custom chips for video/graphics/audio, etc. etc. way back in 1986 already while the 'more advanced and serious' MAC and IBM PC with MSDOS and later Windows took years to get there, and in certain ways, neither one has really done it ideally to this day). If they had charged ahead as the engineers wanted they'd have been there first to the degree that no amount of dirty tricks would've been able to easily suppress the sales, by getting there later, even though they (or rather the company that ended up with the tech) did it way better and still had tons of firsts (although even Atari did better with there last second attempt than the 'big boys') the other guys had had time to get their products and their propaganda entrenched too deeply for a company with less than genius marketing skills to get past that.
granted it is two different businesses and it's not like Nikon has ways to play the extreme dirty tricks with the ease Gates and Jobs and so on did.
Upvote
0
RustyTheGeek said:
Like a working autoiso for one. I mean they've dribbled autoiso out for over a decade and still only gotten it to work (finally) with the 1DX. Evem just look at the silly maximum value allowed for the min shutter speed in AutoISO Av mode, it's absurd, there is zero technical reason and it would have been 100.000000000000% as easy to have coded it withut that limit (probably easier, since they probably had right to start and some marketing guy made them code change a line of code) and that is a fact and for the disbelievers proven by some alternate ML code bases where they removed the limit. And the way they lock out EC in AutoISO M for anything but the 1DX. It's absurd, we are talking zero cost, trivialities, and they play games trying to make it some exclusive 1dx advanced blah blah blah. Other makers toss it onto their Rebels!
Upvote
0
9VIII said:
After experiencing Canon's lack of vision in exploiting the potential of WiFi, I would much, much, much rather they include a built-in flash RT commander like the SHOULD HAVE DONE WITH THE 6D. Heck, for that matter, they should have done it with the 5D3. It's not like the flash RT designs weren't already in the pipe when the 5D3 was being finished.
Another pet peeve about the 5D3, they put a slow-ass SD slot in it instead of UHS-1 like they did for the 6D even though the technology was available and mature. And when you have media in the SD slot, it slows the much faster CF rate down to a crawl. Totally ridiculous! Grrrr.
Upvote
0
The 7DII will be different things to different people, but if the specs stack up, it could well be the trigger for me to retire my over-worked 1D4.dilbert said:
WiFi? Yes it's nice, but not a deal breaker for me. Touch screen? Now that would be an unfortunate omission. The beautifully evolved touch screen on my little travel camera, the 100D/SL1 woke me up to the power and practicality of a good touch screen. My go-to video camera, the 100% awesome Panasonic GH4 uses a touch screen that has forever changed the way I work (with video).
Speaking of video, unless the 7DII ships with 4K, focus peaking, zebras and so on, demand for the truly ground-breaking Panasonic GH4 will continue exceed supply.
-pw
Upvote
0
RickWagoner said:
First post here as well. I spent a good deal of time up a tree this spring suspending an EOS-M, adapter and 55-250STM on a monopod well above my head. Also with a mirror Gerry Rigged to it so I could still see the screen and used the wireless remote to trigger it. A royal pain in the neck, shoulders, feet even keeping a foot hold, etc.
I have $1700 budgeted for a 7D II. But with no WiFi, and obviously no flip screen, I suppose an external monitor would be the only recourse. I was fully expecting to be able to use my cell phone to move focus and make adjustments as well as activate the shutter. Indeed I have forestalled buying a cell phone until I was certain it would work well with what ever camera manufacturer impress me most this Photokina. I have a couple grand in my photography gear now but I could dump it all easy enough for another camp.
As my EOS-M is my only camera until likely Black Friday I welcome tons of buttons. But if the thing has no WiFi, and no Touchscreen, why am I paying 50 to 80% more for this camera than a 70D? Touchscreens are fast, period. Pinch and zoom alone not being there would be a terrible shortcoming.
I'm not climbing glaciers or trekking through the Amazon, build quality of the 7D is far more than enough for me. Heck even the 7 FPS of the 70D would do in a pinch, but I would far rather have a joystick, expanded focus point, etc, things that do matter. But if the thing is obsolete with only trickle up steam features, 22 megapixel, etc I would do a lot better buying a 70D or even a used 7D and putting that other money in glass. And if I am buying not so cutting edge bodies, 20 megapixel DP-AF or not, inferior DR, I might as well used glass to go with it, and if I am buying used glass I might as well buy a used body. If Canon or any manufacturer wants to milk this cow they need to provide something for me to be enthusiastic about. Otherwise the secondary market will get all my camera and lens investment.
Case in point, I bought two 580EX II last night for about $320 out the door each. The 600RT-EX is a darn nice bit of kit but combining my two 430EX II while using their wireless capabilities makes for a broken solution. I might as well stick with my Yongnuo 622C units and drive all four flashes with ease.
I was glad to see this long conversation about the latest rumor as this helps to clarify ones own preconceived desires and true needs. In another words; Thanks guys and gals!
Upvote
0
Similar threads
