A Bit of EOS 7D Replacement Info [CR2]
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Wifi in 6D is very useful, I can remote shooting far from my camera, at least 30m i had test. The eos remote app is too simple, the apps need to upgrade and add more function to make whole wifi set up look more interesting.
I think the reason of 6D have plastic top is the GPS, but I seldom use GPS function.
I think the reason of 6D have plastic top is the GPS, but I seldom use GPS function.
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Neither wifi nor a touch screen are "primary" features for me, although both would have been rather nice to have. The absence of a touch screen is the more surprising actually. It's been long speculated that the sensor will be a DPAF, but the lack of a touch screen leads me to question that aspect, given that a touch screen goes hand in hand with using a DPAF for live-view and video focus. I still think the sensor WILL be DPAF, but lacking a touch screen to rack focus during video would seem to be a major "downside" for video users, or even live view stills shooters.
Again, none of these are critical for me--I'm primarily interested in using it with a good, bright optical view finder for wildlife, so video and live view features are secondary for me, if not tertiary. Still, it's a bit of a surprise, especially given this is a CR2.
As to the sudden speculation that it will be $4,000-$5,000, that seems very unlikely. Anyone spending that kind of money will go for a 1DX. From early on, the speculation was that the build quality would be very '1 series' oriented and a price of $2000-$2500 and I suspect that is where it will come in. There are some who question the viability of a crop-frame at that price even, when you can buy a 6D for less and a 5D3 for equivalent. Those nay-sayers are missing the fact that the 7DII will be an action camera which, while not competitive with the full frame 6D and 5D3 in high ISO-low light scenarios, will outperform them in burst-rate and buffer size--and very much outperform the 6D for Servo AF (although likely to be a "tie" with the 5D3 for AF, unless Canon has something new in AF tech for the 7D II).
On that note, I suspect the AF will be based on the 5D3 and 1DX, but there was one rumour that the 7D II will introduce a new AF system, with tech that will appear in a later 1D series. Many have scoffed at that notion, indicating that any revolutionary new AF would be introduced by a 1D series and then "trickle down" to the other models. However, there IS a precedent. The 45 point AF system used in variations in all the 1D series up to the 1D IV came to the digital line from the film 1v camera, but that AF system was actually introduced in the EOS 3 initially, and NOT in a 1 series camera! At the time the EOS 3 introduced the 45 point AF system that would become synonymous with the EOS 1 and EOS 1D series for more than a decade, the contemporary EOS 1n had a comparatively simple 5 point AF system. It would be a couple more years before the 1v would introduce this advanced new AF system to the 1 series cameras! So it's not impossible that the 7D II might introduce something really revolutionary, not just in terms of sensor tech, but in terms of AF as well. Time will tell!
Again, none of these are critical for me--I'm primarily interested in using it with a good, bright optical view finder for wildlife, so video and live view features are secondary for me, if not tertiary. Still, it's a bit of a surprise, especially given this is a CR2.
As to the sudden speculation that it will be $4,000-$5,000, that seems very unlikely. Anyone spending that kind of money will go for a 1DX. From early on, the speculation was that the build quality would be very '1 series' oriented and a price of $2000-$2500 and I suspect that is where it will come in. There are some who question the viability of a crop-frame at that price even, when you can buy a 6D for less and a 5D3 for equivalent. Those nay-sayers are missing the fact that the 7DII will be an action camera which, while not competitive with the full frame 6D and 5D3 in high ISO-low light scenarios, will outperform them in burst-rate and buffer size--and very much outperform the 6D for Servo AF (although likely to be a "tie" with the 5D3 for AF, unless Canon has something new in AF tech for the 7D II).
On that note, I suspect the AF will be based on the 5D3 and 1DX, but there was one rumour that the 7D II will introduce a new AF system, with tech that will appear in a later 1D series. Many have scoffed at that notion, indicating that any revolutionary new AF would be introduced by a 1D series and then "trickle down" to the other models. However, there IS a precedent. The 45 point AF system used in variations in all the 1D series up to the 1D IV came to the digital line from the film 1v camera, but that AF system was actually introduced in the EOS 3 initially, and NOT in a 1 series camera! At the time the EOS 3 introduced the 45 point AF system that would become synonymous with the EOS 1 and EOS 1D series for more than a decade, the contemporary EOS 1n had a comparatively simple 5 point AF system. It would be a couple more years before the 1v would introduce this advanced new AF system to the 1 series cameras! So it's not impossible that the 7D II might introduce something really revolutionary, not just in terms of sensor tech, but in terms of AF as well. Time will tell!
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Lee Jay said:No built in WiFi? That kills it. It's utterly and totally useless. Heck, I might as well use film!
Not really. But wifi would have been nice to fiddle with for me, at times, especially when I have it attached to my telescope.
Now, if it's missing a direct print button, then I'm out for sure.
Hmm. I wouldn't want an unreliable wireless connection as my connection to the camera when it's on the telescope. I image for hours every time there is a clear night, and wifi signals are prone to interruption and dropouts. A dropout would stop imaging dead in it's tracks.
Now, a gigabit ethernet port, that would kick ass. I'd LOVE something faster than USB to use, and a lot of the new high end equatorial mounts are putting ethernet ports in them as a matter of course now, so the whole entire industry could shift to ethernet for control of telescope imaging soon.
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I like where they are going with this. All metal body, armored screen, suitable for military use. Get a 70d if you want the flippy touch screen and WiFi but get the 7dii if you are dropping behind enemy lines or shooting Tasmanian sea bears! I respect it when a company puts out a truly purpose built product instead of trying to incorporate everything and please everybody.
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jrista said:Lee Jay said:No built in WiFi? That kills it. It's utterly and totally useless. Heck, I might as well use film!
Not really. But wifi would have been nice to fiddle with for me, at times, especially when I have it attached to my telescope.
Now, if it's missing a direct print button, then I'm out for sure.
Hmm. I wouldn't want an unreliable wireless connection as my connection to the camera when it's on the telescope. I image for hours every time there is a clear night, and wifi signals are prone to interruption and dropouts. A dropout would stop imaging dead in it's tracks.
I shoot planetary and satellites, not DSOs. So this would help me with setup when the camera is at a funky position.
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Disappointed it won't have wifi. That is very useful for me for remote shooting and other manufacturers offer fully metal bodies with wifi built in and full weather sealing (read: GH4). It is a standard feature now and lack of it is pathetic. Maybe Canon's engineers aren't competent enough to design a durable body with wifi.
Also disappointed in no touch screen. The GH4 is very solidly built and it has a touch screen and a tilt screen. Both are extremely useful for low angle shooting and "touch to focus" on the 70D is very useful.
I also hope the 1DX build quality doesn't mean integrated grip or that it has an inflated price tag.
Ultimately, the omissions of wifi and touch screen are forgivable if the other specs exceed my expectations, particularly in the video department. I know most people in this forum don't care about video but the video quality on this camera (in terms of noise performance, dynamic range, sharpness and detail) has to be similar to the GH4 and Sony A7s (except noise on the A7s though; that's in another league).
If it just a 7D with slightly better specs then I ain't buying.
Ultimately, it's all just guesses and rumors. Let's see what we actually get.
Also disappointed in no touch screen. The GH4 is very solidly built and it has a touch screen and a tilt screen. Both are extremely useful for low angle shooting and "touch to focus" on the 70D is very useful.
I also hope the 1DX build quality doesn't mean integrated grip or that it has an inflated price tag.
Ultimately, the omissions of wifi and touch screen are forgivable if the other specs exceed my expectations, particularly in the video department. I know most people in this forum don't care about video but the video quality on this camera (in terms of noise performance, dynamic range, sharpness and detail) has to be similar to the GH4 and Sony A7s (except noise on the A7s though; that's in another league).
If it just a 7D with slightly better specs then I ain't buying.
Ultimately, it's all just guesses and rumors. Let's see what we actually get.
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jrista said:Lee Jay said:No built in WiFi? That kills it. It's utterly and totally useless. Heck, I might as well use film!
Not really. But wifi would have been nice to fiddle with for me, at times, especially when I have it attached to my telescope.
Now, if it's missing a direct print button, then I'm out for sure.
Hmm. I wouldn't want an unreliable wireless connection as my connection to the camera when it's on the telescope. I image for hours every time there is a clear night, and wifi signals are prone to interruption and dropouts. A dropout would stop imaging dead in it's tracks.
Now, a gigabit ethernet port, that would kick ass. I'd LOVE something faster than USB to use, and a lot of the new high end equatorial mounts are putting ethernet ports in them as a matter of course now, so the whole entire industry could shift to ethernet for control of telescope imaging soon.
Actually, USB3 is rated at 5Gb/s. So even with overhead, is much faster than 1Gb Ethernet. Though 10GB Ethernet is showing it's head, I seriously doubt Canon would include it. Who runs 10GB Ethernet?
As an IT professional, there is absolutely no reason not to include WiFi in a camera. WiFi is everywhere and is a tiny chip as someone stated to earlier. The antenna can simply be the hot shoe. That's connected to the circuit board inside the camera too. Right? That's sending and receiving signals....
It's money. They are going to charge $300 - $500 for a module that cost them $10 to make. I hope this rumor is false.
And since the 7D replacement is going to be the poor man's 1DX, WiFi is totally useable for sports and event shooters. Many events have WiFi. If your camera is tapped into that, you can have someone with a laptop somewhere uploading files for the event or to a media office. Working a fashion show and having my images uploaded to my laptop automatically would be a HUGE timesaver. Especially if someone is manning that laptop and editing images.
I think the 7D is going to be awesome. But no WiFi will put a 'It could've been' phrase into all reviews....
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candc said:
Purpose built? Canon is a business and they will design the 7D to appeal to the biggest market that makes sense. They don't design products for a tiny niche audience. Military sales are probably an insignificant fraction of the total sales of the original 7D. Nobody is "dropping behind enemy liens" with a 7D. Your imagination is weird. The 7D owners expect a certain level of durability with the 7DII, but having wifi and gps or touchscreen appeals to more people than a camera that lacks basic features. Most people don't need an indestructible body but just a solid, well built one. The inclusion of wifi and touch screen won't hurt that.
I think Canon is f***ing stupid if that is true.
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Very glad they omitted the touch screen and wifi. Both just add extra cost, run down the battery quicker, and are pretty much useless IMHO. If you need wifi, get an eye-fi card.
I still see this thing retailing at about 4-5K and will likely be bundled and offered first with a brand new 2800.00 lens.
I still see this thing retailing at about 4-5K and will likely be bundled and offered first with a brand new 2800.00 lens.
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Guess I won't be going for the 7DII after all. I have grown quite fond of the flippy screen in combination with DPAF of the 70D for easier shooting. Even the WiFi has proven handy and will now be missed though I wouldn't quite put it as a core feature for me yet. In both cases though I find the reasons lame, all for durability. Suckered in by the durability scare-mongering, the same sort where people claimed 60's, 70's, 6's and Rebels would fall apart in people's hands or carry bags.
Shame too because a 70D with whatever FINALLY updated sensor would be sweet.
Omitting these features does NOT reduce the cost - it just gives them more excuse to charge more claiming it's a higher end body.
Shame too because a 70D with whatever FINALLY updated sensor would be sweet.
Omitting these features does NOT reduce the cost - it just gives them more excuse to charge more claiming it's a higher end body.
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I really hope Canon ditches the stupid popup flash this time... Never used it on my last 7D. Canon could include wifi and gps capabilities while utilizing polycarbonate for signal if no flash were present. Of course this is all speculation. What i want is a 1DX crop 
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RustyTheGeek said:
Actually the SD slot wasn't Canon marketing. The DIGIC chips they used are based off of some TI core that apparently was not capable of driving both CF and SD at max speed. With 1 digic in the 5D3 it was completely impossible. Maybe digic 6 or later has a more advanced interface.
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charli18 said:
I really hope it has the life savor and at odd times convenient pop-up flash and I hope they add it to the 5D4!!
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charli18 said:I really hope Canon ditches the stupid popup flash this time... Never used it on my last 7D. Canon could include wifi and gps capabilities while utilizing polycarbonate for signal if no flash were present. Of course this is all speculation. What i want is a 1DX crop
Not sure why you're mixing those two factors together. Putting it where the flash is makes it no more or less viable than putting it elsewhere with a small polycarb section.
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that1guyy said:
+1000
Exactly why I bought the original 7D on the first day it became available.
* VERY GOOD image quality (class-leading at the time!)
* VERY DECENT build quality (on-par with Nikon / D300/s; and still very good by today's standards; the few who really need more, should buy 1D series)
* DECENT FEATURE SET (including pop-up flash working as wireless commander; only Auto-ISO was sub-par already back in 2009)
* VERY GOOD AF (at the time),
* EXCELLENT Controls / User Interface
* and equally important: SENSIBLE PRICE
For those very reasons the 7D was a major win for Canon. I fully expect Canon to deliver again, after having taken more than two regular development cycles to come up with the successor.
In 2014 this would translate into the following
* best IQ of any APS-C on the market today ... bar none ... and on all counts: resoultion, low-ISO noise/banding, Hi-ISO noise/banding ... and DR ... and highest DXO score ever recorded for an APS-C camera ;-)
* 9+ fps plus top-notch AF system -> not just some form of live-view dual-pixel-AF ... but rather: speed, precision, tracking performance at LEAST as good as 5D III
* class-leading feature set, of course including WiFi, GPS and RT-radio flash commander. THEN they may dispose of the pop-up flash.
* OUTSTANDING controls/user interface ... including fully articulated RETINA TOUCH LCD with gorilla glass ... on par at least with iPhone 5, if not 6. ANd AUto-ISO implementation as good as 1DX or even better: as on Nikon D800
* DECENT price: MAX. USD/€ 2299,- at launch, street price quickly dropping to 1999,- for X-Mas/season sales
Should Canon fail to deliver on just one of these counts for the 7D successor, it will not sell in numbers.
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Wifi on Canon products right now is a joke. They need to seriously up the quality of their apps/software. I would say it would be nice to have wifi in case they improve it in the future without requiring a new body purchase, but that is definitely no guarantee. Done right it could be an amazing feature for amateurs and professionals alike, but Canon has not done it right yet.
As for the touchscreen, this I actually find disappointing for a camera which some were aiming to use at least partially for video, the 70D DPAF technology plus touchscreen allows for instant focus pulls with little effort; this type of no-setup focus pull is something that cannot easily be replicated without a touchscreen in a way I can think of. If that is not available on the 7D2, then I would say the 70D might be better for enthusiast video - while the 7D2 would probably be best as a most durable birding camera.
If the "no touchscreen" is true, I would personally go for the 70D over 7D2 for the enhanced video focusing features enabled via the touchscreen.
As for the touchscreen, this I actually find disappointing for a camera which some were aiming to use at least partially for video, the 70D DPAF technology plus touchscreen allows for instant focus pulls with little effort; this type of no-setup focus pull is something that cannot easily be replicated without a touchscreen in a way I can think of. If that is not available on the 7D2, then I would say the 70D might be better for enthusiast video - while the 7D2 would probably be best as a most durable birding camera.
If the "no touchscreen" is true, I would personally go for the 70D over 7D2 for the enhanced video focusing features enabled via the touchscreen.
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pwp said:
I thought a touch screen on my DSLR would be a waste of time. Then I used it on the SL1 this summer and while it's not a revolutionary game changer for me, it's a nice feature I found myself using more and more, esp when viewing photos on the screen with others. Zooming in and moving the picture around while zoomed is a HUGE time saver with a touch screen. I'm glad the implementation was done well.
I found it useful enough that I would rather have it than not have it. Oh and BTW, I had a touch screen protective layer on my SL1 and the touch screen still worked fine.
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philmoz said:
There were quite a few write ups about it after the 5D3 came out but here is one that covers it well enough. In your case, perhaps if you have the camera configured to NOT write images to the SD card, it doesn't degrade the speed of the CF.
http://www.borrowlenses.com/blog/2013/01/tip-optimize-canon-5d-markiii-write-speeds-avoid-sd-cards/
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