A Few EOS 7D Mark II Specs [CR1]

[chasinglight]

It will have a Mode Dial.

While I agree that it will probably have a mode dial, has anyone explored the idea that this could be a replacement for the 7D and the 1DMkIV, albeit leaning a lot harder towards the 1D. I know a lot of sports shooters still shoot the MkIV over the 1DX because of the 1.3x crop. Of course that would make this camera a lot more expensive than the previous 7D. I thought a previous rumor said that this was not going to be called the 7D, but perhaps some other name...anyway just a thought.

 

[garyknrd]

GaryKnrd, What lens are you using with the K3, and are you using it for birding? The major downside for supertelephoto users in Pentax line-up is the IBIS. The other downside is the minimal supertelephoto lens choice for K mount. I have had this fantasy of kayaking to approach and photograph birds, and the Pentax weatherproofing would provide a lot of peace of mind against splashes, etc. (probably not against sustained dunk, though). Sensor is very good as well. Oddball feature of "internal equatorial mount" is of interest to astrophotographers - it makes sense that if you can shift the sensor for image stabilization, you also ought to be able to design it to shift to match star motion relative to Earth. The weatherproof and relatively light and compact Pentax line seems like a good choice for the outdoor photographer.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 60D and 400mm f/5.6L. I am pretty invested in the Canon system, have a 6D as well, a few EF-S lenses, a few EF L lenses, the Samyang 14mm, and am covering the gaps with existing vintage film lenses (my Dad's AIS Nikkors and my own M42 screw mount lenses from the 1970s) on adapters. Some of the old multicoatings give a slightly different look, as do the older double Gauss Planar designs.

I use Canon gear most of the time. Great gear. I use the Sigma 500mm F/4.5 prime and the Sigma 300mm F/2.8 prime with Pentax. Up until the K-3 hit the Pentax gear was in storage. Horrible experience. Shooting with the new K-3 has turned that around for me. That new Pentax K-3 is a birding machine!!! What I find so nice is the layout also. What really blew me away is the IBIS on Pentax. With the 300mm lens it is just as good as the IS in the Canon 300mm F/2.8 II. Just amazing. Until Canon hits with the new 7DII I may store my Canon gear for a while. It is that good so far.
Really have to wait and see if it can hold up to heavy use. My Pentax K-5 fell apart on me. Very poor build.

If interested you can go to my flickr site and see the latest photos with the K-3.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos.

Cheers Gary

 

[Marauder]

The 7DII will be really fast.

For fast, look at mirrorless system ... old-school dslr tech with a flipping mirror taking a lot of straing @high fps is really a technology from the last century. Good for Canon there are enough old-school photogs around

In 10 years from now, you won't even use the 7d2 as a doorstopper because your mirrorless does 100fps+ full res (or you just crop frames from video), has much more shutter cycles before it breaks and does things like "automatically track the bird with the read feathers across the whole frame".

It will also be mounted in a headset and will record continuously in extended HDR mode. You wont even need to push any buttons just point your head in the correct direction... ;D

LOLOLOLOL ;D

 

[ahsanford]

Given the potential customer base of those moving from other APS-C models I reckon
It will have

... the interesting question and imho more worth speculating about: What will it *not* have other than no ff sensor?

Knowing Canon, they will take great care not to deliver a "mini 1dx" at 1/3 of the price that even works better for wildlife in good light because of the gain in reach. Will they cripple the fw? Will the video have moire? Way less sealing? Will it have touch-amateur usability?

Your guess: (insert here)

They won't have to nerf it much as it is a different class of camera. Compared to the 1DX, the 7D2 won't have:

• As high a burst rate
• As good low-light performance
• As good build quailty and weather sealing
• An integral grip
• Spot metering at any AF point

Marsu, the first one is probably the only deliberate nerfing they will do, and the second is an APS-C reality that can't be too critical of. The rest is par for the course for a non-1-series body -- and I don't think 7D users should have expected to get something 1DX-like for those items anyway.

But that's like comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari. Both are pretty fun to drive, I'd wager. The 7D2 should be a state of the art APS-C rig and offer the great new sensor that will be blown down the XXD and Rebel lines for the next few years.

I think a crop 5D3 (or 'action-oriented' 5D3) is far more likely than a crop-sized 1DX. Other than on the video side of things (which I never use), I'd expect the 7D2 and 5D3 size/build/menus/ergonomics/etc. to be very very very very very similar. That's a great thing -- as a 5D3 owner, if I got more into shooting sports and wildlife, I'd pick up a 7D2 for more reach, framerate, etc. in a heartbeat if I had the confidence it was similarly well built and as intuitively designed as my 5D3.

- A

 

[Lee Jay]

If it ends up being an action-oriented crop version of the 5DIII, I might buy both of them. However, if it has some innovative features that the 5DIII lacks (dual pixel, hybrid viewfinder, other video stuff), I might wait for those to move to the 5D series and buy both at that time.

I've said it before - I shoot with a 5D and a 20D, and I love that they are so similar in UI.

 

[vlim]

Quote from: vlim on Today at 08:06:06 AM
With the 70D, you really can make clean photo at 3200 iso so we can expect the same result at 6400 iso for the 7dII.

Right, and pigs can fly :-> ... well, at least if you apply heavy nr you'll have a clean image, though w/o details. Good for shooting doorknobs and brick walls though

That's what I was thinking... but tolerance to grain is a virtue I guess.

I said this because i have pictures taken with a 70d and 100 macro 2.8 L IS in relatively high iso (2500 - 3200) which are clean without any noise reduction post treatment If not, I wouldn't have said that kind of statement... So yes i do expect a 7dII with clean photos at 6400 iso...

 

[ahsanford]

If it ends up being an action-oriented crop version of the 5DIII, I might buy both of them. However, if it has some innovative features that the 5DIII lacks (dual pixel, hybrid viewfinder, other video stuff), I might wait for those to move to the 5D series and buy both at that time.

I've said it before - I shoot with a 5D and a 20D, and I love that they are so similar in UI.

Given that the 7D and above are more workhorses than a show ponies, I'd imagine we would not see a hybrid viewfinder, tilty-swiveling screen or touchscreen in this market segment for some time. I do not expect to see them on the 7D2. I think all of those things are potential value-add for photogs, but Canon will certainly test out their value, appeal and reliability on lower trimlines like the XXD or Rebels first (rationale: fewer pros in this segment that might be alienated by a 'dud' of a feature).

Keep in mind, the current 7D and 5D3 already share a bit of 'feel' about them -- I have a 5D3 and my friend has a 7D, and they feel about the same in the hand, use the same batteries, etc. And though my 5D3 has more AF points, the Servo AF tuning system in my 5D3 came straight from his 7D.

So I see the 7D and 5D lines helping each other along on ergonomics, menu system, etc. In the lesser-discussed-things, one might expect the 7D2 to now get some 5D3 love in the following features:

• LCD zoom button straight to 1:1 for pixel peeping for focus confirmation like with the 5D3*
• Similar AF clusters and selection process (on LCD or through the VF) as the 5D3
• Lockable mode dial (if there is one...)
• 5D3's sockets for video/audio options

(Not owning a 7D, I don't know if current 7D users already got this in the massive firmware upgrade from some time ago.)

Dual-pixel and 'other video stuff', however, I would expect. With it's reach and build quality, it could become the wildlife videographer's rig of choice.

- A

 

[Marauder]

Given the potential customer base of those moving from other APS-C models I reckon
It will have

... the interesting question and imho more worth speculating about: What will it *not* have other than no ff sensor?

Knowing Canon, they will take great care not to deliver a "mini 1dx" at 1/3 of the price that even works better for wildlife in good light because of the gain in reach. Will they cripple the fw? Will the video have moire? Way less sealing? Will it have touch-amateur usability?

Your guess: (insert here)

They won't have to nerf it much as it is a different class of camera. Compared to the 1DX, the 7D2 won't have:

• As high a burst rate
• As good low-light performance
• As good build quailty and weather sealing
• An integral grip
• Spot metering at any AF point

Marsu, the first one is probably the only deliberate nerfing they will do, and the second is an APS-C reality that can't be too critical of. The rest is par for the course for a non-1-series body -- and I don't think 7D users should have expected to get something 1DX-like for those items anyway.

But that's like comparing a Corvette to a Ferrari. Both are pretty fun to drive, I'd wager. The 7D2 should be a state of the art APS-C rig and offer the great new sensor that will be blown down the XXD and Rebel lines for the next few years.

I think a crop 5D3 (or 'action-oriented' 5D3) is far more likely than a crop-sized 1DX. Other than on the video side of things (which I never use), I'd expect the 7D2 and 5D3 size/build/menus/ergonomics/etc. to be very very very very very similar. That's a great thing -- as a 5D3 owner, if I got more into shooting sports and wildlife, I'd pick up a 7D2 for more reach, framerate, etc. in a heartbeat if I had the confidence it was similarly well built and as intuitively designed as my 5D3.

- A

One of the possible specs from last year indicated the 7D II (or whatever it's called) might have a 12fps burst rate. It would be cool if true, but 10 fps would also be cool.

As to form factor, it might be a hybrid. It might be like a EOS 3-- 1 series controls but with a removable grip..or it might be like a mini-1DX or it might be like a 5D3. Any of those options are fine with me.

 

[ahsanford]

Quote from: vlim on Today at 08:06:06 AM
With the 70D, you really can make clean photo at 3200 iso so we can expect the same result at 6400 iso for the 7dII.

Right, and pigs can fly :-> ... well, at least if you apply heavy nr you'll have a clean image, though w/o details. Good for shooting doorknobs and brick walls though

That's what I was thinking... but tolerance to grain is a virtue I guess.

I said this because i have pictures taken with a 70d and 100 macro 2.8 L IS in relatively high iso (2500 - 3200) which are clean without any noise reduction post treatment If not, I wouldn't have said that kind of statement... So yes i do expect a 7dII with clean photos at 6400 iso...

That's like when Kai from DRTV does his high ISO test in broad daylight and declares a m43 camera is still useable at ISO 12,800. :

- A

 

[Old Sarge]

In the old days, when those grips originated, cameras were rectangular boxes with lenses attached. If you wanted to advance film to the next frame you had to flip a lever, .......

Or turn a knob....I am sure getting old.

 

[the blackfox]

GaryKnrd, What lens are you using with the K3, and are you using it for birding? The major downside for supertelephoto users in Pentax line-up is the IBIS. The other downside is the minimal supertelephoto lens choice for K mount. I have had this fantasy of kayaking to approach and photograph birds, and the Pentax weatherproofing would provide a lot of peace of mind against splashes, etc. (probably not against sustained dunk, though). Sensor is very good as well. Oddball feature of "internal equatorial mount" is of interest to astrophotographers - it makes sense that if you can shift the sensor for image stabilization, you also ought to be able to design it to shift to match star motion relative to Earth. The weatherproof and relatively light and compact Pentax line seems like a good choice for the outdoor photographer.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 60D and 400mm f/5.6L. I am pretty invested in the Canon system, have a 6D as well, a few EF-S lenses, a few EF L lenses, the Samyang 14mm, and am covering the gaps with existing vintage film lenses (my Dad's AIS Nikkors and my own M42 screw mount lenses from the 1970s) on adapters. Some of the old multicoatings give a slightly different look, as do the older double Gauss Planar designs.

I use Canon gear most of the time. Great gear. I use the Sigma 500mm F/4.5 prime and the Sigma 300mm F/2.8 prime with Pentax. Up until the K-3 hit the Pentax gear was in storage. Horrible experience. Shooting with the new K-3 has turned that around for me. That new Pentax K-3 is a birding machine!!! What I find so nice is the layout also. What really blew me away is the IBIS on Pentax. With the 300mm lens it is just as good as the IS in the Canon 300mm F/2.8 II. Just amazing. Until Canon hits with the new 7DII I may store my Canon gear for a while. It is that good so far.
Really have to wait and see if it can hold up to heavy use. My Pentax K-5 fell apart on me. Very poor build.

If interested you can go to my flickr site and see the latest photos with the K-3.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos.

Cheers Gary

hmmm just had a look through your flickr images and without wishing to start a row ,your pics with the 1D4 have bite and guts ,the pentax ones lack that considerably .it may well be the lack of decent glass for the pentax ,but if it was my money i would stick with canon .thats just my view ,sorry .
i did the same for a couple of years kidded myself that nikon was better ,it wasn't and i can see that now looking back .

 

[pierlux]

Knowing Canon, they will take great care not to deliver a "mini 1dx" at 1/3 of the price that even works better for wildlife in good light because of the gain in reach.

I hope and fear at the same time that if Canon deliver a true mini 1Dx, it will be priced around 1/2 of the current 1Dx price, which means approx as much as the 5DIII at release date. At this price tag it wouldn't eat away 1Dx sales by much.

Whatever comes, I hope all the hard work carried out by the ML guys on the 7D will be in some way profitable for the 7DII firmware hack, too. You're quite The Expert among CR members on this matter, so please excuse my ignorance, but I'm curous and have to ask: do the Magic Guys have to begin again from scratch every time they 'assault' a new model or can the previous work be transferred, in the form of pieces of code or at least expertise, from one camera to another?

 

[Sabaki]

As a matter of interest, would an expectation of relatively clean image quality at ISO 1600 be unrealistic for a crop body?

 

[StudentOfLight]

As a matter of interest, would an expectation of relatively clean image quality at ISO 1600 be unrealistic for a crop body?

One man's clean is another man's filthy. It's best to speak in comparative terms. For me, if the 7D-II's ISO 3200 image looks as good as the 6D's ISO 6400 image then I'd be very happy with it.

 

[Sabaki]

As a matter of interest, would an expectation of relatively clean image quality at ISO 1600 be unrealistic for a crop body?

One man's clean is another man's filthy. It's best to speak in comparative terms. For me, if the 7D-II's ISO 3200 image looks as good as the 6D's ISO 6400 image then I'd be very happy with it.

I hear you on that.

As a birder, I dial in ISO 400 on my 500D but just like the 7D, anything over 400 leads to very obvious noise.
Anything over ISO 800, the images become somewhat and probably poorly described as rough.
Useable ISO 3200 would be a very worthwhile reason to buy this camera.

 

[garyknrd]

GaryKnrd, What lens are you using with the K3, and are you using it for birding? The major downside for supertelephoto users in Pentax line-up is the IBIS. The other downside is the minimal supertelephoto lens choice for K mount. I have had this fantasy of kayaking to approach and photograph birds, and the Pentax weatherproofing would provide a lot of peace of mind against splashes, etc. (probably not against sustained dunk, though). Sensor is very good as well. Oddball feature of "internal equatorial mount" is of interest to astrophotographers - it makes sense that if you can shift the sensor for image stabilization, you also ought to be able to design it to shift to match star motion relative to Earth. The weatherproof and relatively light and compact Pentax line seems like a good choice for the outdoor photographer.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 60D and 400mm f/5.6L. I am pretty invested in the Canon system, have a 6D as well, a few EF-S lenses, a few EF L lenses, the Samyang 14mm, and am covering the gaps with existing vintage film lenses (my Dad's AIS Nikkors and my own M42 screw mount lenses from the 1970s) on adapters. Some of the old multicoatings give a slightly different look, as do the older double Gauss Planar designs.

I use Canon gear most of the time. Great gear. I use the Sigma 500mm F/4.5 prime and the Sigma 300mm F/2.8 prime with Pentax. Up until the K-3 hit the Pentax gear was in storage. Horrible experience. Shooting with the new K-3 has turned that around for me. That new Pentax K-3 is a birding machine!!! What I find so nice is the layout also. What really blew me away is the IBIS on Pentax. With the 300mm lens it is just as good as the IS in the Canon 300mm F/2.8 II. Just amazing. Until Canon hits with the new 7DII I may store my Canon gear for a while. It is that good so far.
Really have to wait and see if it can hold up to heavy use. My Pentax K-5 fell apart on me. Very poor build.

If interested you can go to my flickr site and see the latest photos with the K-3.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos.

Cheers Gary

hmmm just had a look through your flickr images and without wishing to start a row ,your pics with the 1D4 have bite and guts ,the pentax ones lack that considerably .it may well be the lack of decent glass for the pentax ,but if it was my money i would stick with canon .thats just my view ,sorry .
i did the same for a couple of years kidded myself that nikon was better ,it wasn't and i can see that now looking back .

I am just killing time. The Sigma glass was cheap compared to the Canon glass. I kinda like it though. For me it is fun to change around and shoot with different brands. What really has me excited is the high grade crop sensors.. I love the crop sensors for birding... The Pentax K-3 is a much better sensor than the 7D no comparison. I like it better than the IV?
Can't wait for the 7D II to hit.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/avianphotos

 

[jrista]

As a matter of interest, would an expectation of relatively clean image quality at ISO 1600 be unrealistic for a crop body?

One man's clean is another man's filthy. It's best to speak in comparative terms. For me, if the 7D-II's ISO 3200 image looks as good as the 6D's ISO 6400 image then I'd be very happy with it.

I hear you on that.

As a birder, I dial in ISO 400 on my 500D but just like the 7D, anything over 400 leads to very obvious noise.
Anything over ISO 800, the images become somewhat and probably poorly described as rough.
Useable ISO 3200 would be a very worthwhile reason to buy this camera.

It's not going to happen, though. I agree, the most usable ISO stops somewhere around ISO 800 to ISO 1600 (depends on the specific copy, and to some degree temperature). The 7D has 41% Q.E. already. To DOUBLE sensitivity (or reduce noise by 50%), the 7D II would need 82% Q.E. Sony recently released the ICX694 CCD sensors for astrophotography. Those are cooled CCDs, about -35 to -40 degrees C delta T, and those get "only" get 77% Q.E. (which, BTW, is actually VERY high...the prior generation usually got somewhere between 45% - 59% Q.E. most of the time, with the exception of a couple high end ones without anti-blooming circuits that get 90%.) On top of that, they have the lowest read noise of any of the available astro CCDs on the market at the moment, at 0.003e-/px/s (the prior generation of CCD sensors had around 0.02e-/px/s, an order of magnitude MORE). DSLR sensors, at room temperature, has more on the order of 0.5e-/ps/s, another order of magnitude more.

There is just no way Canon is going to achieve 82% Q.E. in any respect (not unless they have some seriously amazing patents they are hiding away somewhere), and there is little chance they will be reducing dark current noise by any significant degree. That means that the 7D II won't have anywhere near a factor of two improvement in high ISO noise. That means it won't even be that much more usable at ISO 1600, let alone ISO 3200.

If you really NEED usable high ISO, you need to move to a larger sensor. Total light gathering capacity is ultimately what matters for high ISO...and FF sensors simply have more, always will have more.

 

[StudentOfLight]

As a matter of interest, would an expectation of relatively clean image quality at ISO 1600 be unrealistic for a crop body?

One man's clean is another man's filthy. It's best to speak in comparative terms. For me, if the 7D-II's ISO 3200 image looks as good as the 6D's ISO 6400 image then I'd be very happy with it.

I hear you on that.

As a birder, I dial in ISO 400 on my 500D but just like the 7D, anything over 400 leads to very obvious noise.
Anything over ISO 800, the images become somewhat and probably poorly described as rough.
Useable ISO 3200 would be a very worthwhile reason to buy this camera.

It's not going to happen, though. I agree, the most usable ISO stops somewhere around ISO 800 to ISO 1600 (depends on the specific copy, and to some degree temperature). The 7D has 41% Q.E. already. To DOUBLE sensitivity (or reduce noise by 50%), the 7D II would need 82% Q.E. Sony recently released the ICX694 CCD sensors for astrophotography. Those are cooled CCDs, about -35 to -40 degrees C delta T, and those get "only" get 77% Q.E. (which, BTW, is actually VERY high...the prior generation usually got somewhere between 45% - 59% Q.E. most of the time, with the exception of a couple high end ones without anti-blooming circuits that get 90%.) On top of that, they have the lowest read noise of any of the available astro CCDs on the market at the moment, at 0.003e-/px/s (the prior generation of CCD sensors had around 0.02e-/px/s, an order of magnitude MORE). DSLR sensors, at room temperature, has more on the order of 0.5e-/ps/s, another order of magnitude more.

There is just no way Canon is going to achieve 82% Q.E. in any respect (not unless they have some seriously amazing patents they are hiding away somewhere), and there is little chance they will be reducing dark current noise by any significant degree. That means that the 7D II won't have anywhere near a factor of two improvement in high ISO noise. That means it won't even be that much more usable at ISO 1600, let alone ISO 3200.

If you really NEED usable high ISO, you need to move to a larger sensor. Total light gathering capacity is ultimately what matters for high ISO...and FF sensors simply have more, always will have more.

Yes, my ISO "usable ISO 3200" would only be an option with 7D-II using an APS-H size sensor :'(

 

[dgbrownnt]

Historically, those grips were added to film cameras to serve as automated winders so that you could take pictures rapidly in succession. That was a feature primarily used by professional photographers, so it came to be seen as a sign of "professionalism". But, once cameras became digital, those grips no longer served their original purpose, but still serve as a signature of a "professional". That is why they are there, it is primarily for show and as a status symbol. And caters to the macho idea that for a real man, bigger is better. In a practical modern camera it serves no real function, it is just peacock feathers.

The proper name of the grip is a "vertical grip". That's because, shockingly, the primary purpose of the grip is for shooting vertical (portrait) pictures. That is why there are controls on it.

If you do a lot of vertical shots, your arm will fall off if you have to use the normal grip. I shoot a lot of volleyball, for instance, and it just wouldn't be possible without a vertical grip.

In addition, a built-in grip is amazing when used with larger lenses, if only for balance and grip area. You can one-hand an 85 f/1.2 on a 1DX (though I wouldn't recommend it if you don't own said equipment). I've tried that without the vertical grips on 5Ds and 7Ds and it's much harder.

In the old days, when those grips originated, cameras were rectangular boxes with lenses attached. If you wanted to advance film to the next frame you had to flip a lever, it was all mechanical. Sometimes the camera had metering internally, in which case a tiny battery was included to power it (those thin silver disc types).

On high end cameras you could include an additional grip on the camera. On the base was a motorized winder (your "vertical grip"), and on the side was a grip handle that included the battery to power the winder.

That is where that form factor comes from. It is a relic from the ancient past for professional cameras.

I'm perfectly aware of what an autowinder is and am not arguing that (I am also a relic from the film days). Where you appear to be mistaken, however, is the belief that the only reason a secondary grip appears on digital cameras is vanity.

While I'm sure there are some out there that have it as bling (possibly the same people that put nonfunctional hood scoops on their cars), the grip is there because it actually has a purpose. You can shoot with the camera turned 90 degrees. Otherwise you have to do this stupid arm over your head posture which, while it may be fine for a picture or two, sucks if you have to do it for any nontrivial amount of time.

The grip is a tool with a use. Like any tool, there will be idiots out there that do other stuff with it, but it doesn't negate the intended use or those that actually use it that way.

 

[Tugela]

I have no trouble turning the camera 90 degrees, I do it all the time without a second thought.....frankly I am surprised to hear that some people have problems doing that.

If I have to point the camera at something for an extended period I attach it to a tripod or monopod. The heads on those rotate 90 degrees.

A vertical grip would just get in the way for me. It would have a massive nuisance factor.

There is no reason why they could not sell a plastic add on that screws on the base for your use if you wanted it, that should satisfy everyone then. Or they could produce two models, the 7DII and the 7DII Mega Extreme Pro.