A Few EOS 7D Mark II Specs [CR1]

[Marsu42]

I'm rather surprised no one has captured a picture of a 7D2 at the World Cup yet---if they're really there!

As speculated in the neighboring thread about pre-production models, the earlier incarnations are most likely inside the old camera body so you won't recognize the 7d2 from the outside.

People who deride
P mode are idiots

Fyi Magic Lantern users: There's a module called "autoexpo" which is essentially P mode, but it lets you pre-set av/tv/iso for every lv value. Afaik it doesn't support shifting (yet) and doesn't take the lens' focal length into consideration, but if you exactly know what settings you want for what available light I'm reading it's very useful.

 

[Sporgon]

P mode can be used as a modified Av mode, in that you can still override the aperture setting and also compensate. Used this way it can be useful. So it's not as much for 'losers' as you might at first think.

Help me out here - why wouldn't I just use Av mode? I mean, assuming I'm not Ken "The P stands for Professional!" Rockwell.

Fair question; PBD has covered much in his post above. P allows you to operate broadly as Av, taking control of aperture and iso with a variation on EC. However P will revert back to a 'middle ground' ss/ap balance as soon as the camera is idle. Depending on your situation this may or may not be an advantage in a swiftly changing environment such as parts of a wedding - except when you put a flash on the camera you loose this control. I'm not sure how someone shooting a wedding in P mode deals with this.

The one mode I have never used on digital is Tv. In the film days when you had a certain ISO loaded you might want to have the ss locked. However since digital and immediate access to ISO variation I find it is much better to ensure the ISO is suitable to allow the ss I require at the appropriate aperture. DoF is always important, shallow or deep depending upon the result you want, so to be quite honest I personally have more use for P mode in a modern camera than Tv.

As unfocused says, green box is useful when handing a customised camera to someone to use. If I hand my camera to my wife I put it in green box mode.

For myself, with the exception of shooting panoramics, by far the most used mode is Av. I even use Av when working from a hand held incident light meter reading. Set the required aperture then compensate to shoot at the incident meter reading. If I am trying to nail an exposure and 'picture style' in camera when shooting around 500 images at an event, this saves so much time in post.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

I'm rather surprised no one has captured a picture of a 7D2 at the World Cup yet---if they're really there!

As speculated in the neighboring thread about pre-production models, the earlier incarnations are most likely inside the old camera body so you won't recognize the 7d2 from the outside.

People who deride
P mode are idiots

Fyi Magic Lantern users: There's a module called "autoexpo" which is essentially P mode, but it lets you pre-set av/tv/iso for every lv value. Afaik it doesn't support shifting (yet) and doesn't take the lens' focal length into consideration, but if you exactly know what settings you want for what available light I'm reading it's very useful.

To quote two very famous and widely regarded wedding photographers, Yervant and Jeff Ascough (the main input who directed Canon to spec the 5DIII). Yervant uses P all the time, Jeff uses M all the time.
Both are highly regarded, but I know who's photos I prefer.

Another great photograher who I have a lot of time for is Guy Edwardes. He's a M user, with the occasional Av use. Go check out his diary page for some of the finest landscapes, flowers and wildlife I've yet to see.

Personally I see little use for P, my default is AV with exposure compensation applied. But I know many other pros who feel the same about M, once fully mastered, there is little reason to have any other mode. My personal view is that Av or Tv is faster to operate and less of hassle in environments with constant lighting changes / challenges. Another useful feature of M is that it can be used as an "Iso Priority" (Iv?) mode if "Auto iso" in engaged. Not my bag, but I've used on the odd occasions.
As for Ken Rockwell and his "P is for professionals" comment....yeah right....becareful of what you read on the internet....especially if the advice is for free? I certainly wouldn't go on one of his workshops.

 

[privatebydesign]

To imply any differences between Yervant and Jeff Ascough images are down to program mode choice is really, really wrong.

Yervant's images are post process driven, Ascough is a natural light narrow dof "B&W gritty" look. To suggest that Ascough couldn't take exactly the same images he does in M using Av is disingenuous, he is a master of his craft. If you watch some of his videos you would realise he actually relies on RAW post capability much more than a slide film shooter ever would, but people who come from a B&W film background do that, they generalize exposure and rely on the depth in the file, and that is a technique that lends itself to M mode shooting.

I pointed out Joe Buissink as a user of P mode just to illustrate that some high end pros work with it quite happily, not that you need to use one mode over another to get a style of image.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

To imply any differences between Yervant and Jeff Ascough images are down to program mode choice is really, really wrong.

Yervant's images are post process driven, Ascough is a natural light narrow dof "B&W gritty" look. To suggest that Ascough couldn't take exactly the same images he does in M using Av is disingenuous, he is a master of his craft. If you watch some of his videos you would realise he actually relies on RAW post capability much more than a slide film shooter ever would, but people who come from a B&W film background do that, they generalize exposure and rely on the depth in the file, and that is a technique that lends itself to M mode shooting.

I pointed out Joe Buissink as a user of P mode just to illustrate that some high end pros work with it quite happily, not that you need to use one mode over another to get a style of image.

Wow, you fly off the handle quickly! Perhapse you mis read my post. That's not what I was alluding to at all. I was pointing out that some photographers choose different modes to others regaqrdless of popularity or success. I prefer Jeff's style and generally agree with his point of views, at a wedding you need to meter for each room manually and stick to that metering so the exposure is consistent from frame to frame. It cuts down post prodding images where the meter has jumped about all over the place. I know Jeff quite well from when we were both on a private forum together. While I admire Yervant's work and success, his work is generally not my style or inspiration. I like George Weir too, again another photojournalist who uses M mode. Maybe it's PJ thang vs the art crowd? I'm just musing out loud here.

 

[bdunbar79]

I think things change too. As metering gets better and better, and more and more accurate, auto ISO, IMO, will become more popular. The 1Dx's metering in all metering modes is super, super accurate whereas earlier models not so much. So I think people's preferences may change as technology improves.

 

[ahsanford]

I think things change too. As metering gets better and better, and more and more accurate, auto ISO, IMO, will become more popular. The 1Dx's metering in all metering modes is super, super accurate whereas earlier models not so much. So I think people's preferences may change as technology improves.

I think our favorite spot on the mode dial is a religious matter -- it often defines our first priority to the shot and everything else follows. Mine is locked on Av unless (a) I deliberately want a specific shutter (< 1% of the time) or (b) I've got the flash on in really low light and I go to M. It's not right, it's not wrong. It's what I do. Each of us has our own sensibilities to follow.

But ISO is different to me. It's the part of the triangle I am most flexible on to get the rest of the settings where I want them. I bounce all over the place on ISO, even using Auto ISO (gated to 1/(lens FL) shutter) in difficult / rapidly changing lighting or in spur-of-the-moment shooting environments.

- A

 

[AvTvM]

I think things change too. As metering gets better and better, and more and more accurate, auto ISO, IMO, will become more popular. The 1Dx's metering in all metering modes is super, super accurate whereas earlier models not so much. So I think people's preferences may change as technology improves.

I think our favorite spot on the mode dial is a religious matter -- it often defines our first priority to shot and everything else follows. Mine is locked on Av unless (a) I deliberately want a specific shutter (< 1% of the time) or (b) I've got the flash on in really low light and I go to M. It's not right, it's not wrong. It's what I do. Each of us has our own sensibilities to follow.

But ISO is different to me. It's the part of the triangle I am most flexible on to get the rest of the settings where I want them. I bounce all over the place on ISO, even using Auto ISO (gated to 1/(lens FL) shutter) in difficult / rapidly changing lighting or in spur-of-the-moment shooting environments.

- A

also my approach.
Focus plane and Aperture always control look & composition of an image. Shutter speed only if subjects and/or camera are moving. ISO is irrelevant for composition, its only about "technical" image quality and if we keep it within our "tolerance levels", its the least important of the the 4 shooting parameters. That's why better implementation of Auto-ISO in Canon EOS cameras is so crucial [eg. "M + Auto-ISO + working EV compensation" not only on 1-series cameras] ... to have a good tool to handle quickly changing lighting situations that are not under our immediate control.

 

[Steve]

Fair question; (P mode stuff)

Eh, it still doesn't really sound that useful. I don't shoot weddings though so... *shrugs* Seems to me it would be just as easy and fast to use Av + Auto ISO and then still have a bit more control.

The one mode I have never used on digital is Tv.

Tv seems most useful for sports or concert photography where you want a hard floor on your shutter to make sure you stop the action.

As for Ken Rockwell and his "P is for professionals" comment....yeah right....becareful of what you read on the internet....especially if the advice is for free? I certainly wouldn't go on one of his workshops.

I was being sarcastic. KRock is garbage.

Oh and not really to knock that Joe Buissink dude but when I looked him up it sounds like he just has a crew of people blasting away nonstop in the general vicinity of things happening and just picks out the random good shots to send to the customer. I guess P mode works good for that style? Also, google autocompletes "Joe Buissink" with "program mode" lol.

 

[Austin]

People who deride P mode are idiots

...Or they are just joking, like I was.

And what a tangent that crack took this thread on. As was mentioned, P mode is great if you are just handing your camera to somone.

Or if you just don't have the time to change settings, and you need to me snapping away in the next second P mode is nice and safe. (AV would be fine for that too, but if your ISO happens to be set to something like 100, you might have some blurry pictures.) That is, if I toss you a camera and tell you Tom Cruise will be walking through the door in the next second, switching it to P mode and putting the camera straight to your eye would be a good move.

Full M is great, and there's real sport in it - that's why I use it - but if you are a pap trying to land THE shot in trickey lighting, you'd be crazy to use it without a flash.

 

[privatebydesign]

I have a sense of humour too, I meant people who do actually deride P mode, and there are many who mean it.

 

[unfocused]

An aside: People shouldn't be giving our friend Ken Rockwell so much credit. "'P' is for professionals" is a saying that has been around for a long time and certainly wasn't invented by him.

It's essentially the digital version of "f8 and be there."

Point being that under rapidly changing conditions when you have no idea what you might encounter next, having the camera set so that it gives you the best odds for a usable shot is important if your livelihood depends on bringing back the shot. I'm guessing that most of the "I only use manual" crowd have never experienced that kind of pressure.

 

[NancyP]

Well, I am an old-time amateur, grew up with all-manual with only a TTL light meter needle, still think and shoot in manual mode when shooting static subjects (landscape and macro). I haven't tried P. I use Av when birding, keeping an eye on the shutter speed, should look into auto-ISO. If I were doing event or pj work, I would likely use P, just to free up brain space for interaction with subjects.

 

[tayassu]

I think our favorite spot on the mode dial is a religious matter -- it often defines our first priority to the shot and everything else follows. Mine is locked on Av unless (a) I deliberately want a specific shutter (< 1% of the time) or (b) I've got the flash on in really low light and I go to M. It's not right, it's not wrong. It's what I do. Each of us has our own sensibilities to follow.

+1
Exactly what I do!!
But unlike you I hate to use AUTO ISO on my 7D as i often find it not to select high enough ISO's. I like the auto-metering of my camera, I seldom use spot metering, only in extremely different lit situations where I would need DR my camera can't offer.

 

[AvTvM]

I think our favorite spot on the mode dial is a religious matter -- it often defines our first priority to the shot and everything else follows. Mine is locked on Av unless (a) I deliberately want a specific shutter (< 1% of the time) or (b) I've got the flash on in really low light and I go to M. It's not right, it's not wrong. It's what I do. Each of us has our own sensibilities to follow.

+1
Exactly what I do!!
But unlike you I hate to use AUTO ISO on my 7D as i often find it not to select high enough ISO's. I like the auto-metering of my camera, I seldom use spot metering, only in extremely different lit situations where I would need DR my camera can't offer.

Auto-ISO on the 7D unfortunately is still limited, even after firmware update 2.0
Only 5D 3 and 1-series have fully functional Auto-ISO. sigh.

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

As a quick counter point... there are certain images that are really hard to get... a ball being compressed by a bat at the moment of contact, a diver just before he puts his fields in the water, etc.

You may have 120 images to sort through, but know which image exactly you want makes it easy enough to find.

But that is about it... no thank you to the remaining 119 images.

I agree, there may be a few rare situations where you want a higher frame rate than 12fps. That said, people get those kinds of shots. They have actually been getting them for years, with equipment older and slower even than we have today. I'm not sure 120fps is necessary. I'm not even sure 30fps is necessary, although it might be the point where diminishing returns have kicked in enough that anything faster would still be pretty useless.

Beyond the point of diminishing returns, you would have many, even dozens of frames of essentially the same thing. At that point, your gathering dozens or hundreds of frames per second so you can choose a more appealing squashed base ball shape...which changes only by a few millimeters per frame. Is that really worth the extra import time and storage requirements and cost?

12fps isn't even close to grabbing bat on ball for you, not even remotely close! you still need to self time that, you'd need much higher fps just to guarantee a SINGLE frame with ball on bat

 

[LetTheRightLensIn]

Regarding flash...no, however I have never really needed flash for my bird and wildlife photography. I don't think flash is used all that much with sports either.

Maybe not during action most of the time, but there are plenty of other circumstances shooting sports an emergency flash could be handy for sure! I once got an out of the blue call to shoot the Stanley Cup, no time to grab more equipment, luckily I had a non-pro body at the moment so I had a built-in flash because one quick shot they wanted had the cup and people holding it backlit.

And who says you can't use your 7D2 for all shots, why is it so bad for it to give you a little fill for a sudden snap shot of some friends on a trip or when you are out and boom out of nowhere a tree frog at night, ec. etc.

 

[Loswr]

...who says you can't use your 7D2 for all shots,

Who says you can?!? At this point I can safely say that you can use your 7D2 for any shots you take while riding on the back of unicorn.

 

[jrista]

...who says you can't use your 7D2 for all shots,

Who says you can?!? At this point I can safely say that you can use your 7D2 for any shots you take while riding on the back of unicorn.

You could even take shots of the marshmallows that unicorn is crapping out as it flys around on it's magical cloud.

 

[AvTvM]

You could even take shots of the marshmallows that unicorn is crapping out as it flys around on it's magical cloud.

Hehehe!

Unfortunately Canon's unicorns are of the non-aviatory kind.