Announcements Coming The First Week of September [CR2]

[ahsanford]

This would place the M5 on a two year cycle. not a 4 year. unless you meant rebel cycle. It's also pretty solidly rumored as coming this PhotoKina btw.

But the M5 is spec'd like an XXD camera, which is usually on a three year refresh. But mirrorless is a more dynamic market right now and perhaps a peppier 2 year cycle (like what's now done for Rebel SLRs) would be warranted. We'll see.

- A

 

[Yasko]

5D mk IV in a mirrorless body definitely sounds like it will be 3000$ +, so I am out
At a 6D mk II release price I would be tempted (although I just bought a 6D mk II), but more I cannot justify.
But seeing reviews nearly counts as having it in your hands ;D, still only a hobby.

I would like a new 50 mm for FF anytime soon though. Sold mine because the USM is just not my taste and I am peering towards a refresh in the next year or so...

 

[rrcphoto]

But again, if this is really just a 5D IV I think the real question we all want to know is will it have dual pixel raw??!!

you know we complain that canon isn't innovative, and when canon is the ONLY one to try, and tosses out some computational photography post process people still get on them for it.

They can't win.

 

[rrcphoto]

We’re told that photo gear related announcements from Canon will be coming the first week of September, it is expected that Canon will announce at least one mirrorless camera.

But it might be a crop mirrorless camera (in September). No FF listed above. This one above could be the M5 II and/or M6 II.

I doubt an M6 II will come out before an M5. M6 is basically an M5 without the EVF and a few other features downgraded.
the M5 is certainly ready for a update being two years old this september. that's a long refresh cycle in the EF-M world.

The full frame mirrorless camera from Canon is being described as an “EOS 5D Mark IV in a mirrorless body” internally by at least one retail insider. We think we’re going to get more than a mirrorless version of a two year old camera.

Color me skeptical on a 5D "mark 4.5" sort of feature set.
- A

when you think about it. Canon's mirrorless already shoot at 7.5fps with full AF and 9fps with AE/AF locked with a 24MP sensor and that's with the M50 small camera.

regardless of the sensor format that won't impact speed that dramatically, there should be no reason why a 5D like mirrorless can't meet or exceed the performance envelope of a 5D non mirrorless. the main tech surrounding the speed has alot to do with the shutter mechanism that simply doesn't exist on a 5D mirrorless.

DIGIC 8 obviously brings h.264 to 4K for Canon and that alone is a huge jump in what they will be able to do in the camera

 

[ahsanford]

when you think about it. Canon's mirrorless already shoot at 7.5fps with full AF and 9fps with AE/AF locked with a 24MP sensor and that's with the M50 small camera.

regardless of the sensor format that won't impact speed that dramatically, there should be no reason why a 5D like mirrorless can't meet or exceed the performance envelope of a 5D non mirrorless. the main tech surrounding the speed has alot to do with the shutter mechanism that simply doesn't exist on a 5D mirrorless.

Can you elaborate on the red bit? The mirror will be gone, but not the shutter. Was the 5D4's shutter's performance limited to work better with a mirror somehow?

And I'm not saying a 5-series mirrorless will clone the 5D4 specs. Surely there will be some differences. I just don't think Canon wants to create major (non-mirrorless fueled) feature-set envy with the SLR these mirrorless bodies will line up alongside. I see a ballpark similarly spec'd product coming out without a mirror for about the same price as the SLR. Surely, the first year it will be pricier as a first for Canon, but that should steady out in future refreshes.

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

when you think about it. Canon's mirrorless already shoot at 7.5fps with full AF and 9fps with AE/AF locked with a 24MP sensor and that's with the M50 small camera.

regardless of the sensor format that won't impact speed that dramatically, there should be no reason why a 5D like mirrorless can't meet or exceed the performance envelope of a 5D non mirrorless. the main tech surrounding the speed has alot to do with the shutter mechanism that simply doesn't exist on a 5D mirrorless.

Can you elaborate on the red bit? The mirror will be gone, but not the shutter.

sorry I should have said mirror / sub mirror mechanism.

And I'm not saying a 5-series mirrorless will clone the 5D4 specs. Surely there will be some differences. I just don't think Canon wants to create major (non-mirrorless fueled) feature-set envy with the SLR these mirrorless bodies will line up alongside. I see a ballpark similarly spec'd product coming out without a mirror for about the same price as the SLR. Surely, the first year it will be pricier as a first for Canon, but that should steady out in future refreshes.

I really don't think they care, as long as you buy Canon.

The 5D Mark V will come out in 1-2 years and will surpass this camera's featureset, and so on and so forth.

if DIGIC 8 is a major DIGIC leap in performance especially video, i wouldnt be surprised to see Canon fasttrack every single camera to be updated fast with it.

 

[unfocused]

The current 5DIV sells for $3,100 with a free battery grip. $2,650 through CPW street price.

A Mirrorless 5DIV selling for roughly the same amount makes some sense. I don't see it being "better" than the 5DIV so much as it will be "different."

Same sensor and core features. It might have a higher frame rate, but without a bigger buffer it won't matter, as it is waiting for the buffer to clear that puts the 5DIV at a disadvantage against the 1DxII.

It should offer a near silent shutter which would be appealing.

If Nikon really does offer in-body stabilization, I would not be surprised if Canon does the same. I could see that happening for two reasons:

1) Better video performance. In-lens stabilization wasn't designed for video, which needs continuous stabilizing, not simply stabilization when the shutter is pressed.

2) Smaller native mount lenses. If Canon does add a new mount, the best way to keep the lenses small is to take stabilization out of the new lenses and put it into the camera. This would also help differentiate the new mount lenses from EF-mount.

My sense is that Sony's success in mirrorless has been built in part on the use of their cameras for video. IBIS and the mirrorless form factor, coupled with their wide range of lenses could help both Nikon and Canon capture more of the video market.

The deciding factor between the DLSR and Mirrorless version of the 5DIV might come down to just how good the electronic viewfinder is and what people's personal preference may be. I strongly disagree with CR Guy that it can't be a mirrorless version of the 5DIV. I think it can and will be.

 

[timmy_650]

The could bump up the spec from the 5D4 and about the time it is going to shipping leak details on the 1DX3. So they will have a strong mirrorless and DSLR.
Bc if they just have a $3000 mirrorless 5D, I can't seeing that selling well. A 6Dm2 spec with 30.4 senor for $2000, i could see that selling well.

 

[amorse]

But again, if this is really just a 5D IV I think the real question we all want to know is will it have dual pixel raw??!!

you know we complain that canon isn't innovative, and when canon is the ONLY one to try, and tosses out some computational photography post process people still get on them for it.

They can't win.

Dual pixel raw just always seemed like an after thought. It was marketed, but I never felt that Canon really pushed it as the marquee feature on the camera: it just seemed like it was added because they could regardless of whether or not it would be widely used.

To be fair though, I still think it is a good thing - not all innovation is going to result in ground breaking new systems off the bat; some will fall flat. I'm ok with that - it's part of innovation. DPAF was very innovative in my opinion, and is certainly a leader in live-view autofocus systems. I don't think I've ever accused Canon of not being innovative.

I was actually really interested in dual pixel raw's opportunity to get an extra stop of DR, and if getting that was baked into adobe's camera raw rather than running it through another program first (and preferably visible on the camera via histogram), I would 100% use it. Now if they were able to use dual pixel raw to create dual ISO images and make that data accessible through camera raw or Lightroom... that would be very interesting to me (but maybe no-one else).

 

[Kit.]

you know we complain that canon isn't innovative, and when canon is the ONLY one to try,

...like Direct Print button?

 

[ahsanford]

Bc if they just have a $3000 mirrorless 5D, I can't seeing that selling well. A 6Dm2 spec with 30.4 senor for $2000, i could see that selling well.

You're right. 30 x 6.5 + tilty-flippy + canon's best sensor for $2k would sell well. But that's not going to happen, IMHO -- sorry.

The mirrorless and SLR market overlap in some places and are different in others. But if Canon prices things too aggressively to sell mirrorless, they will negatively impact their SLR sales. For instance, if Canon puts out what is loosely a 5D4 + tilty-flippy for $2k as your describe, I have little doubt that 5D4 sales @ $3,099 today will go down considerably.

It's far more likely Canon puts out one of these three sort of offerings in FF mirrorless:

• A fundamentally different value proposition that sits between existing FF SLR price points that is appropriately priced in between them
• A very similar-to-SLR spec'd* FF mirrorless for about the same price
• A very similar-to-SLR spec'd* FF mirrorless for a markup because FF mirrorless is new for Canon users

*Could be a time-adjusted slightly better version than the 5D4 or 6D2 it is based on, but not dramatically better. If they did that, it would more resemble the first option and they'd just ask for more money.

No one knows the specs, of course, but I don't think Canon will give the good stuff away for less than they ask for in SLRs.

- A

 

[NeverPlayMonopoly]

Using past experiences, can anyone predict what they believe will be the price drop of the 5dm4 as we know it?

 

[ahsanford]

Using past experiences, can anyone predict what they believe will be the price drop of the 5dm4 as we know it?

Predict? No.

Make an educated guess? Sure. Look at the 5D3 price plot vs. time.

Keep in mind that these are USD prices from official resellers -- this varies quite a bit elsewhere.

- A

 

[rrcphoto]

But again, if this is really just a 5D IV I think the real question we all want to know is will it have dual pixel raw??!!

you know we complain that canon isn't innovative, and when canon is the ONLY one to try, and tosses out some computational photography post process people still get on them for it.

They can't win.

Dual pixel raw just always seemed like an after thought. It was marketed, but I never felt that Canon really pushed it as the marquee feature on the camera: it just seemed like it was added because they could regardless of whether or not it would be widely used.

I think they didn't know how actual useful it would be "in the field" but decided to push it out and see what the response would be.

No one else is doing anything of the sort of computational photography post process, I hope they continue to push what they can do with DP Raw including depth mapping and further refinement.

Dual ISO will never happen. using it for 1 EV highlight protection works because each half gets 2/3's to 1/2 of the light of the total summed halves.

even taking one half of the image and using that for highlight data can be problematic.

 

[rrcphoto]

Bc if they just have a $3000 mirrorless 5D, I can't seeing that selling well. A 6Dm2 spec with 30.4 senor for $2000, i could see that selling well.

You're right. 30 x 6.5 + tilty-flippy + canon's best sensor for $2k would sell well. But that's not going to happen, IMHO -- sorry.

The mirrorless and SLR market overlap in some places and are different in others. But if Canon prices things too aggressively to sell mirrorless, they will negatively impact their SLR sales.

but if they are still making the same or more profit why would they care?

but in reality i could see them pushing out a 2k and a 3k camera body anyways TBH.

 

[RGF]

Given that Nikon is coming out w/ a Mirrorless FF camera and theirs will most likely be based upon the D850, it will be interesting to see if Canon offers a competitive package or just a slightly improved version of 5D M4 in a mirrorless body.

based upon Canon's lack of breakthrough products recently I am doubtful. They products are well engineered but Canon plays it very safe by introducing "safe" products that are not too big of an innovation

 

[edoorn]

true and if they'd do that, the mirrorless offering would already be behind on what Nikon is bringing. According to NR, a 10 fps body with fantastic AF (400 points and working very well), 3,6million dot EVF and great handling/ergonomics. However, this could be a great moment for a bit of a rupture in terms of philosophy.

In interviews last year and earlier this year, Canon executives expressed the need to ramp up innovation. So, it'll be interesting to see what happens next.

 

[dak723]

based upon Canon's lack of breakthrough products recently I am doubtful. They products are well engineered but Canon plays it very safe by introducing "safe" products that are not too big of an innovation

Which is exactly why some folks like myself like Canon's cameras. I'll take well engineered every day of the week. Having tried some of the more innovative brands, I have found that most innovations don't work very well - and companies more interested in innovation aren't doing that well in terms of being "well engineered."

 

[xps]

An Sony rumor site writes following NIKON Specs for their MLS:
"

Two different mirrorless full frame cameras
Resolution: 24-25MP and 45-48MP
Similar body size to the Sony a7 camera
5-axis in-body stabilization
9fps
4k video
Memory cards: XQD and CF Express
EVF resolution: 3.6 million dots
Nikon is putting a lot of emphasis and effort into the shooting experience of the new mirrorless camera. The camera was designed with ergonomics in mind.
Over 400 AF points, not sure about the exact number, it should be somewhere between 430-450. The AF is supposed to be very fast.
The rear LCD screen is tiltable just like the Nikon D850.
There is a second LCD screen on the top of the camera.
My understanding is that there is only one selection wheel on top of the camera.
The camera’s “prism” with the EVF is a bit less angular/smoother when compared to the Sony a7.
I can now confirm that the new 24-70 mirrorless full frame kit lens will indeed be f/4.
I see 8K listed in the technical specifications, but it is hard for me to get the translation – I don’t think it’s for video, maybe 8K time-lapse just like the D850?
The new Nikon mirrorless camera will have a nice finish and a very comfortable grip. The overall handling/feeling is supposed to be excellent – this is coming from somebody who is/has tested the camera.
Most likely no built-in flash.
The promo materials should include dancers.
Potential names: Z300 and Z500 (not confirmed, take it with a grain of salt for now).
Initially, three lenses will be announced: 24-70mm f/4, 35mm and 50mm (I think the 35 and 50mm will be f/1.4). There is also talk about a 24mm, but it may come later.
At least one new mirrorless zoom lens will have power zoom for video recording (unconfirmed, could be announced later).
Two electric AF motors (not confirmed).
Very sophisticated new F-mount adapter (confirmed by multiple sources).
I was told that Nikon is currently developing a large number of new mirrorless lenses and this is a top priority.
The new mirrorless mount will allow for f/0.95 lenses
"

WOW. The better A7.
And I´d like to see the better Nikon from Canon ;D

 

[nbaresejr]

I have been reading and following this with great interest. I believe Canon knows they need to hit a homerun with this release and we all know they can, the question is more do they want to. With recent statements from the company higher ups stating they need to innovate more I believe all signs are there for a big splash into this market.

Just judging off of what Canon currently offers in the APS-C mirrorless market and the price point they are doing it at, I believes gives us all the info we need. The current M50 at $629 packs a punch with features. If we simply go off that I think its pretty safe to assume at a minimum the following specs:

My Best Guess for the FF specs.

30.4mp- new sensor with BIS (we have seen patents that canon is working on BIS sensors). Dynamic range needs to be about 1 stop better then the current 5d4. This would make it about equal to anything currently out there from Sony.
Digic 8 or 8+ processor
Excellent EVF
DPAF with the fastest AF performance of any Canon mirrorless camera to date (I would say by far)
3.0" Vari Angle LCD Screen
4k, no crop
Wifi, NFC, Bluetooth
5 Axis Image Stabilization (currently on M50)
10 FPS (minimum)-m50 does 9.5

Eye AF (currently on m50)
200+ AF points (m50 has 143)


Depending on how they are adapting the EF lenses to this camera, with specs like that it would be a homerun. I would pay $3000 for that camera.