ethanz said:I'd really like an f/0.9 50mm lens. I think its a great idea.
10 inch long 52mm prime? oh okayyyy
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ethanz said:I'd really like an f/0.9 50mm lens. I think its a great idea.
rrcphoto said:ethanz said:I'd really like an f/0.9 50mm lens. I think its a great idea.
10 inch long 52mm prime? oh okayyyy
ahsanford said:stochasticmotions said:The bigger dark horse in the race is Nikon, they have not yet shown on sensor autofocus that is anywhere close to Canon or Sony for video or tracking. Nikon's latest SLRs are excellent but they are a mystery as to where they will come into this market this time.
Nikon also has the Ghost of Tiny Mount Diameter's Past past to contend with. They couldn't support autofocusing f/1.2 lenses as Canon did, and Canon folks constantly reminded them of that. So I'm not surprised at all that Nikonians are pride-wise geeked about the prospect of these f/0.95 lenses that have been rumored -- I surely wouldn't want to have to carry those lenses, though!
Sony is (IMHO) a far more clear and present danger to Nikon than Canon. Canon is the bigger target, surely, but it has been preparing for FF mirrorless with core tech for some time. Nikon is (on paper) less prepared to offer a competitive FF mirrorless offering. Further, Nikon's been running with stellar Sony sensors forever, and the last 5-10 years have shown that sensors don't flip marketshare. Nikon needs core technology upgrades (liveview, video, something resembling DPAF) far more than they need to shut up the f/1.2 boo-birds.
So even if they go with a spec beast of a mirrorless D850 as rumors imply, if it handles poorly, has iffy AF, etc. they will be in some serious trouble.
- A
rjbray01 said:scyrene said:rjbray01 said:If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.
With the greatest of respect to you, people have been coming on these forums for years saying 'if Canon' don't do something soon they'll start to lose sales', and it's never happened. Why is *now* the crucial time? Each manufacturer has had its basic strategy for years - some characterise it as, Sony innovative/desperate to get a product to sell well, Canon conservative/risk averse - and we haven't seen a seismic shift in sales. Nor has the 'coming mirrorless revolution', as some have imagined it, changed the scene at more than a glacial pace.
I think from the data we have, anouncing glitzy, amazing-sounding products and getting praise from reviewers absolutely isn't the way to be a market leader, in this sector at least.
The reason now is different is because practically every potential camera buyer is already carrying an outstanding camera built into their mobile phone.
The camera sales market is shrinking : with increasingly complex camera functions being addressed by the phone capabilities.
I would expect fewer MILC sales to translate to fewer suppliers : survival of the fittest.
admiralburns said:I have a 6D. I want to stay with Canon.
All I really need is a 6D2 with a headphone jack. Mirrorless / more compact would be nice, but I need a stinking headphone jack. There are a lot of "nice to have" features which I would enjoy, including 4K and eye tracking. But how Canon saw it fitting to make the 6D2 more video-friendly, but not include a headphone jack, which is even on the 80D is absurd. There is no reasonable excuse.
I've been holding out a LONG time...just gimme a jack. I don't see waiting any longer than the end of this year. This is past the point of ridiculous, and has nothing to do with innovation.
The A7III is sub $2k. It has a headphone jack (MUST have IMO), plus a dozen or so other "nice to have" items. More tempting by the day, even knowing the downsides. I hate this upselling gamesmanship, it's detestable.
BeenThere said:If they just took the mirror box out of the 5Div body and added a good EVF, I think I would get one .... but probably not what is coming.
RGF said:BeenThere said:If they just took the mirror box out of the 5Div body and added a good EVF, I think I would get one .... but probably not what is coming.
5D M4 is 3 or 4 year old technology. That would be let down. They need to do more than just convert the 5D M4 to an EVIL camera. If they don't Nikon will have a superior camera again.
admiralburns said:I have a 6D. I want to stay with Canon.
All I really need is a 6D2 with a headphone jack. Mirrorless / more compact would be nice, but I need a stinking headphone jack. There are a lot of "nice to have" features which I would enjoy, including 4K and eye tracking. But how Canon saw it fitting to make the 6D2 more video-friendly, but not include a headphone jack, which is even on the 80D is absurd. There is no reasonable excuse.
I've been holding out a LONG time...just gimme a jack. I don't see waiting any longer than the end of this year. This is past the point of ridiculous, and has nothing to do with innovation.
The A7III is sub $2k. It has a headphone jack (MUST have IMO), plus a dozen or so other "nice to have" items. More tempting by the day, even knowing the downsides. I hate this upselling gamesmanship, it's detestable.
scyrene said:rjbray01 said:scyrene said:rjbray01 said:If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.
With the greatest of respect to you, people have been coming on these forums for years saying 'if Canon' don't do something soon they'll start to lose sales', and it's never happened. Why is *now* the crucial time? Each manufacturer has had its basic strategy for years - some characterise it as, Sony innovative/desperate to get a product to sell well, Canon conservative/risk averse - and we haven't seen a seismic shift in sales. Nor has the 'coming mirrorless revolution', as some have imagined it, changed the scene at more than a glacial pace.
I think from the data we have, anouncing glitzy, amazing-sounding products and getting praise from reviewers absolutely isn't the way to be a market leader, in this sector at least.
The reason now is different is because practically every potential camera buyer is already carrying an outstanding camera built into their mobile phone.
The camera sales market is shrinking : with increasingly complex camera functions being addressed by the phone capabilities.
I would expect fewer MILC sales to translate to fewer suppliers : survival of the fittest.
I don't fully understand your point, can you expand? Why is the shrinking of the overall camera market due to smartphones the reason Canon must absolutely release a world beating (however defined) FF mirrorless camera in the next few months?
They could release the best (once again, however you wish to define it) camera ever and phones would continue to eat away at the lower end of the market. A FF mirrorless camera isn't competing with phones, it's competing with other FF MILCs and FF DSLRs (and to a lesser extent, APS-C and mefium format).
But apologies if I'm misunderstanding you.
rjbray01 said:scyrene said:rjbray01 said:scyrene said:rjbray01 said:If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.
With the greatest of respect to you, people have been coming on these forums for years saying 'if Canon' don't do something soon they'll start to lose sales', and it's never happened. Why is *now* the crucial time? Each manufacturer has had its basic strategy for years - some characterise it as, Sony innovative/desperate to get a product to sell well, Canon conservative/risk averse - and we haven't seen a seismic shift in sales. Nor has the 'coming mirrorless revolution', as some have imagined it, changed the scene at more than a glacial pace.
I think from the data we have, anouncing glitzy, amazing-sounding products and getting praise from reviewers absolutely isn't the way to be a market leader, in this sector at least.
The reason now is different is because practically every potential camera buyer is already carrying an outstanding camera built into their mobile phone.
The camera sales market is shrinking : with increasingly complex camera functions being addressed by the phone capabilities.
I would expect fewer MILC sales to translate to fewer suppliers : survival of the fittest.
I don't fully understand your point, can you expand? Why is the shrinking of the overall camera market due to smartphones the reason Canon must absolutely release a world beating (however defined) FF mirrorless camera in the next few months?
They could release the best (once again, however you wish to define it) camera ever and phones would continue to eat away at the lower end of the market. A FF mirrorless camera isn't competing with phones, it's competing with other FF MILCs and FF DSLRs (and to a lesser extent, APS-C and mefium format).
But apologies if I'm misunderstanding you.
There we will have to differ - it is my belief that new mobile phones do already present a challenge to the full frame market and the gap will close relentlessly.
The larger the market the greater the number of suppliers due to economies of scale.
As a market shrinks, fewer suppliers can earn a profit from such economies of scale.
Those who survive will do so on merit, not from living on their laurels.
Whereas a rising tide carries everyone, a falling tide leaves some marooned.
In an innovate-or-survive climate such as we are now entering I personally find it difficult to imagine that an ultra-conservative strategy of remaining behind the competition is a sure fire winner.
rrcphoto said:I doubt an M6 II will come out before an M5. M6 is basically an M5 without the EVF and a few other features downgraded.ahsanford said:Canon Rumors said:We’re told that photo gear related announcements from Canon will be coming the first week of September, it is expected that Canon will announce at least one mirrorless camera.
But it might be a crop mirrorless camera (in September). No FF listed above. This one above could be the M5 II and/or M6 II.
the M5 is certainly ready for a update being two years old this september. that's a long refresh cycle in the EF-M world.
ahsanford said:Canon Rumors said:The full frame mirrorless camera from Canon is being described as an “EOS 5D Mark IV in a mirrorless body” internally by at least one retail insider. We think we’re going to get more than a mirrorless version of a two year old camera.
Color me skeptical on a 5D "mark 4.5" sort of feature set.
- A
when you think about it. Canon's mirrorless already shoot at 7.5fps with full AF and 9fps with AE/AF locked with a 24MP sensor and that's with the M50 small camera.
regardless of the sensor format that won't impact speed that dramatically, there should be no reason why a 5D like mirrorless can't meet or exceed the performance envelope of a 5D non mirrorless. the main tech surrounding the speed has alot to do with the shutter mechanism that simply doesn't exist on a 5D mirrorless.
DIGIC 8 obviously brings h.264 to 4K for Canon and that alone is a huge jump in what they will be able to do in the camera
RGF said:5D M4 is 3 or 4 year old technology. That would be let down.
Don Haines said:rjbray01 said:scyrene said:rjbray01 said:scyrene said:rjbray01 said:If these announcements in September don't offer a compelling competitor product to Sony's Alpha range and any other cameras of a similar spec then I think its inevitable they will lose that momentum.
With the greatest of respect to you, people have been coming on these forums for years saying 'if Canon' don't do something soon they'll start to lose sales', and it's never happened. Why is *now* the crucial time? Each manufacturer has had its basic strategy for years - some characterise it as, Sony innovative/desperate to get a product to sell well, Canon conservative/risk averse - and we haven't seen a seismic shift in sales. Nor has the 'coming mirrorless revolution', as some have imagined it, changed the scene at more than a glacial pace.
I think from the data we have, anouncing glitzy, amazing-sounding products and getting praise from reviewers absolutely isn't the way to be a market leader, in this sector at least.
The reason now is different is because practically every potential camera buyer is already carrying an outstanding camera built into their mobile phone.
The camera sales market is shrinking : with increasingly complex camera functions being addressed by the phone capabilities.
I would expect fewer MILC sales to translate to fewer suppliers : survival of the fittest.
I don't fully understand your point, can you expand? Why is the shrinking of the overall camera market due to smartphones the reason Canon must absolutely release a world beating (however defined) FF mirrorless camera in the next few months?
They could release the best (once again, however you wish to define it) camera ever and phones would continue to eat away at the lower end of the market. A FF mirrorless camera isn't competing with phones, it's competing with other FF MILCs and FF DSLRs (and to a lesser extent, APS-C and mefium format).
But apologies if I'm misunderstanding you.
There we will have to differ - it is my belief that new mobile phones do already present a challenge to the full frame market and the gap will close relentlessly.
The larger the market the greater the number of suppliers due to economies of scale.
As a market shrinks, fewer suppliers can earn a profit from such economies of scale.
Those who survive will do so on merit, not from living on their laurels.
Whereas a rising tide carries everyone, a falling tide leaves some marooned.
In an innovate-or-survive climate such as we are now entering I personally find it difficult to imagine that an ultra-conservative strategy of remaining behind the competition is a sure fire winner.
But what if the customer is looking for a reasonably priced camera that is easy to use? The vast bulk of people out there are buying Rebels and M cameras and most of them are left in the automatic mode. All these things that we forum users fixate about mean nothing to the average user. These people don't care about what mount Canon is going to use for a FF mirrorless, which codec video is shot with, or how to properly set up the cases in the AF system...
Don Haines said:But what if the customer is looking for a reasonably priced camera that is easy to use? The vast bulk of people out there are buying Rebels and M cameras and most of them are left in the automatic mode. All these things that we forum users fixate about mean nothing to the average user. These people don't care about what mount Canon is going to use for a FF mirrorless, which codec video is shot with, or how to properly set up the cases in the AF system...
fullstop said:lens mount matters, because they WILL will care how big, heavy, clunky and conspicuous their gear is.
fullstop said:And in 2018 camera users should not have to care about fiddling around with "AF use cases" deep down in some custom settings menu. Those custom settings are just testimony that Canon is not able to build cameras that are AI-smart enough to figure out motion & tracking on their own by analyzing the scene in real-time.
Buyers like me want many small, pinpoint AF points all over frame [mirrorless!] and precisely select starting point for AF tracking [if subject in motion is detected there]. Up to now, no Canon camera is delivering what "AI-AF mode" in all of them promises. And we want Face-detect and Eye-detect AF. So far, only in one "entry level" Canon mirrorless cam [M50] ... in mid 2018. That's beyond "conservative". It is just plain stupid.
fullstop said:Not only. I don't care about "ultimate technical IQ", but still have a FF system and want to consolidate all my gear to only one FF system that is not a lot larger than crop sensor-systems. Sensor size does not scale very well with gear size. Look at Pana GH5 - big camera, small sensor. Or Oly M1 - same. Or Fuji XT-2. I want exactly the opposite. Compact camera, compact lenses, FF sensor. Because that allows me to do anything I could do with a crop system - and then some.
rjbray01 said:...we are seeing an end to the growth in sales of FF cameras ...
The FF market has ssentially decelerated and next comes shrinkage.